Britain plans to build commercial spaceport

[Star One]

Basing a spaceport on Skylon at best would be a long shot. The technology has not been proven out. I could see another home for Virgin Galactic. That would make more sense. At least that concept is close to success.

That's debatable.

Agree SKYLON is as good a basis as anything here.

[Alf Fass]

Only sites in southern England could launch to the ISS, and the track would carry them over populated Europe.

So to my mind the only flights that could be justified from the UK would be suborbital.

If they're serious they'd go for Ascension Island, which does have a 10,000ft runway.

[Chris Bergin]

Awesome article Chris. Forgive me for my US American history but does Britain have common wealth country at the equator that could handle Geo and Leo launch?

Commonwealth countries are sovereign entities, would be no different to negotiating a launch site with any other foreign country.

The UK however still has some overseas territories, the most interesting as potential launch sites are Ascension Island and Diego Garcia.

how about the Falkland islands?

That would be a whole can of worms. They do have a big airport now, as Port Stanley gained the RAF base after the British victory in the Falklands war after the Argentinian invasion in the early 80s, but yeah.....probably not the best place or idea.

As far as the Commonwealth, it's more like a ceremonial throwback to when Britain was an Empire.

[docmordrid]

Bermuda?

[Alf Fass]

Bermuda?

Probably too densely populated with too little area.

Mainland UK is sensible for suborbital, one of the things that would attract passengers is a a view of something other than just water, and from over Scotland you'd get to see the British Isles, and a big chunk of Scandinavia and the rest of Europe.

I'm just skeptical that suborbital tourism has much of a future because I'm expecting orbital flights to dominate if/as costs come down dramatically.

[bad_astra]

Ascencion really does make the most sense. Wideawake sounds like a good name for a spaceport, too.

[Jcc]

And, from the pinnacle of tech journalism, The Register.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/07/11/uk_gov_open_skies_to_spaceplanes/

Mostly refers to Skylon, with news about the latest SABRE engine testing, but a passing reference to Richard Branson's Virgin Galactic, which could be flying from there a lot sooner (suborbital hops). Neither space plane would be much good for GSO missions, so Britain's latitude is not a killer.

Also note this is from 2years ago. They're good.

[Garrett]

The British spaceport story was covered during the main primetime news show in France tonight:
http://www.francetvinfo.fr/replay-jt/france-2/20-heures/jt-de-20h-du-lundi-21-juillet-2014_647437.html
(starts at 29:50, not sure if it works outside France)

Mainly focuses on Branson/Virgin Galactic.
Included some comments from former ESA/French astronaut Jean-François Clervoy.

[Ravenger]

Last week I was on holiday in Cornwall had a short pleasure flight in a chipmunk training aircraft from one of the candidate airports - Newquay.

An air museum called 'Classic Air Force' is based there, and fly a range of vintage planes, including the only airworthy Gloster Meteor. They offer pleasure and aerobatic flights in a variety of prop-driven planes, though only the chipmunk was flying when I visited.

I was chatting to the staff there, and they were aware of the spaceport proposals, though no-one I spoke to knew much about Skylon.

They did mention the runway could handle the very largest aircraft - they've had US Galaxy transport planes take off and land there for instance. There are also plans to turn the airport into a business hub for the area.

Here's a photo I took whilst coming in to land:



The museum is the left-most large hangar.

I'm not sure how the runway could be extended to 6km for Skylon as there are roads and villages close to the both ends of the main runway. Take off noise could be a real issue.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Newquay+Cornwall+Airfield/
@50.4425205,-5.0090395,6286m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0x5431bcfed499fc59

[A_M_Swallow]

{snip}
I'm not sure how the runway could be extended to 6km for Skylon as there are roads and villages close to the both ends of the main runway. Take off noise could be a real issue.

This is a government initiative.  The houses can be compulsory purchased and the roads closed.

[kraisee]

Could be.   But won't be.   There are too many alternatives to choose from that make such a move not worth the fallout regarding unpopular press.   Especially with elections in the non-too-distant future.

More's to the point that the business case has to be proven before the expenditure will occur.   Frankly this particular spaceport location decision is vastly unlikely to ever see a Skylon flight or any LEO mission for that matter, and there are no non-US players in the sub-orbital game yet.

That means that until something can be done about loosening ITAR for human spacecraft systems (the reverse is actually happening right now, the rules are being actively tightened in this area) this whole embryonic project currently has no real pulse.

When I see UKSA has managed to sign a formal deal with US Department of State that released Spaceship2 for export, that's when I'll begin to buy into this concept.   Not one second before.

US DoS won't do it either, because they have nothing to gain, and everything to lose, by allowing this revenue stream to leave US shores.   Keep ITAR locked and they force all that lovely money coming in to the country from all the world's richest people.   Why would the US wish to change these current rules in order to split that profit with any other country?

Ross.

[A_M_Swallow]

One UK airport will need its runway lengthening to permit test flights of Skylon.

[pargoo]

     I laughed out loud when I read the title of this thread.  Who are they kidding?  Skylon will never fly; what need for a 'spaceport' in an do-nothing space country when even ESA with its multi-national funding isn't considering moving to manned flight and is getting rid of the Ariane-5 - once supposed to loft Hermes - precisely because it is over-powered and (presumably) over-priced for launching comsats?  Hilarious!

[Proponent]

Obviously the referendum vote will complicate things as English funding would likely have to be reconsidered.

I think it likely that the referendum is the whole reason we're hearing much noise about a spaceport in Scotland:  "You Scots want a spaceport, don't you?  Vote to stay in the UK!"

I predict that regardless of the referendum's outcome, we will hear little about the spaceport after the referendum takes place on 18 September.  If Scotland votes to remain in the UK, then we might continue to hear a bit about the spaceport until the UK general election next spring.

EDIT:  Added missing "is" in first sentence.

[JasonAW3]

Could be.   But won't be.   There are too many alternatives to choose from that make such a move not worth the fallout regarding unpopular press.   Especially with elections in the non-too-distant future.

More's to the point that the business case has to be proven before the expenditure will occur.   Frankly this particular spaceport location decision is vastly unlikely to ever see a Skylon flight or any LEO mission for that matter, and there are no non-US players in the sub-orbital game yet.

That means that until something can be done about loosening ITAR for human spacecraft systems (the reverse is actually happening right now, the rules are being actively tightened in this area) this whole embryonic project currently has no real pulse.

When I see UKSA has managed to sign a formal deal with US Department of State that released Spaceship2 for export, that's when I'll begin to buy into this concept.   Not one second before.

US DoS won't do it either, because they have nothing to gain, and everything to lose, by allowing this revenue stream to leave US shores.   Keep ITAR locked and they force all that lovely money coming in to the country from all the world's richest people.   Why would the US wish to change these current rules in order to split that profit with any other country?

Ross.

England has WAY too many closed Air Bases it could use to make this Space port.  Finding a location shouldn't be too much of a problem.  Only issue I can see is any way you tak off, except for polar orbits, you're going to have to fly over some of the european contenint.  I don't think France would take it too kindly if the Skylon crashed into the Eiffle Tower because of a dual engine out situation.  (Yeah, I know, it wouldn't be flying anywhere NEAR Paris, but it makes for a good example).

[Ravenger]

If Skylon is built, and if it's capable of self-ferry over long distances, then it's possible it could take off from a normal, full length runway such as Newquay's, with a reduced H2 load and no O2, for a ferry flight down to an equatorial launch site for full fuelling and launch. (A lot of Ifs there.) Still that's a topic for the Skylon thread.

For suborbital flights like SpaceshipTwo I would have thought Newquay would be ideal. The runway should be long enough and it's close to the ocean so no noise issues and safer operation. I can't see normal rockets launching there though - too many villages in close proximity.

[Star One]

Some developments in this story today.

UK ministers issue spaceport shortlist.

The list reduces the number of runways first suggested as candidates when last year's consultation got under way.

Still in are Campbeltown, Glasgow Prestwick, and Stornoway in Scotland; Newquay in England and Llanbedr in Wales. RAF Leuchars is confirmed as a potential temporary facility.

Ministers are keen to see the spaceport established by 2018.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-31711083

[Bob Shaw]

Skylon, for all that it is attractive, is a distraction. The Spaceport would be used for commercial sub-orbital flights only. As most of the building or proposed vehicles are gliders on the return leg you need to launch from somewhere which allows for the trajectories not impacting on major commercial airways, which rather suggests the periphery of the UK. Scotland has a variety of good sites, and these were on the table years before the Neverendum; Wales might be good too, but England is generally lacking in sticky-out locations which don't have Jumbos overhead. Might all never happen, though!
 

[AnalogMan]

Skylon, for all that it is attractive, is a distraction. The Spaceport would be used for commercial sub-orbital flights only.

Which is probably why REL did not respond to the Government's 3 month consultation on criterion to determine the location of a UK Spaceport.

[Stellvia]

Awesome article Chris. Forgive me for my US American history but does Britain have common wealth country at the equator that could handle Geo and Leo launch? Would they need to formally join ESA and use French  Guiana?

A) Britain is already a member of the ESA.
B) The only commonwealth countries close the equator are Guyana and Kenya; Kenya has already been used for space launches the by the Italian space agency in the 60s.

Beal tried to establish a spaceport in Guyana back in 1999: http://www.guyanausa.org/aerospace_company_needs_u.htm

Reportedly the local government and populace were all for it, but it was squashed by the US State Department.

I do sometimes idly daydream about a British-owned 'Kourou II' in Guyana, but I expect any attempt to raise such a proposal would cause the mandarins at the FCO to choke on their Earl Grey...