Britain is to build a commercial spaceport that will be used to launch manned missions and commercial satellites. A list of eight locations for the spaceport – which could be used by Virgin Galactic and the US company XCOR to launch space tourism flights – has been drawn up by the government and will be announced on Tuesday at the Farnborough air show.
Considering the ridiculous number of small-airports-with-large-runways in the US that have started calling themselves "spaceports", I'm pretty dubious this is going to work. What advantage does a runway in Middle-of-Nowhere, Scotland have over a real launch site like CCAFS or MARS or CSG?And you think weather delays are bad in Florida?
The BBC is already reporting the shortlist, possibly accidentally.
Quote from: simonbp on 07/14/2014 12:32 amConsidering the ridiculous number of small-airports-with-large-runways in the US that have started calling themselves "spaceports", I'm pretty dubious this is going to work. What advantage does a runway in Middle-of-Nowhere, Scotland have over a real launch site like CCAFS or MARS or CSG?And you think weather delays are bad in Florida? For NASA nothing of course.But then this is not being done for NASA is it?A mainland test and launch site (for VTOL ELV's, sounding rockets, HTOL RLV's?) puts a test facility in relatively easy reach of UK universities (otherwise you have to take a flight to Sweden) and shortens your development cycle if you were planning a largish space development project in the UK, especially an expendable one.
Quote from: john smith 19 on 07/14/2014 07:13 amQuote from: simonbp on 07/14/2014 12:32 amConsidering the ridiculous number of small-airports-with-large-runways in the US that have started calling themselves "spaceports", I'm pretty dubious this is going to work. What advantage does a runway in Middle-of-Nowhere, Scotland have over a real launch site like CCAFS or MARS or CSG?And you think weather delays are bad in Florida? For NASA nothing of course.But then this is not being done for NASA is it?A mainland test and launch site (for VTOL ELV's, sounding rockets, HTOL RLV's?) puts a test facility in relatively easy reach of UK universities (otherwise you have to take a flight to Sweden) and shortens your development cycle if you were planning a largish space development project in the UK, especially an expendable one.Like who?Launching an ELV from Europe would be nuts both because of the bureaucracy and because of the very limited inclination range (and the uncooperative weather). No one has ever made money off of sounding rockets. No horizontal takeoff RLV exists, outside Branson's Folly.The only possible orbital contender is Reaction Engines, but they have publicly stated that they would only operate Skylons for test flights. Commercial flights would be by commercial operators, who would choose a launch site based on commercial considerations, not parochial nationalism. The same would be true for any other British RLV company. Commercial companies are in it to make money, not "promote Britishness".I think there is a future for British RLVs, but you'd be hard pressed to come up with a worse place in the world to build a spaceport than Great Britain. If the UK government really wanted to promote British RLVs, they would be funding something like a British version of the X-Prize or the Lunar Landing Challenge. Instead, they are building a spaceport that probably no one will use.
wouldn't Ascension make a better launch site? It's close to the equator, anyway.
At present the only European range is in Northern Sweden. Would any of the UK neighbors want to come to the UK instead of there? Debatable, but possible.
Quote from: john smith 19 on 07/14/2014 05:42 pmAt present the only European range is in Northern Sweden. Would any of the UK neighbors want to come to the UK instead of there? Debatable, but possible.Esrange (the name of the range in Northern Sweden) is only a small site for launching sounding rockets and high altitude balloons. Presumably this proposed UK spaceport would cater to different customers.
Just a thought. I think there's a cabinet reshuffle coming up Anyone know if the Minister Willets is safe? REL seem to have gotten on well with him.
Commercial sat launches would take a hit due to the distance from the equator, but it'd work out quite nicely for polar launches?
Alrighty then. Nothing flash here, just a write up with a sprinkling of "don't get carried away, but it is cool."http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2014/07/british-government-vision-uk-spaceport/
Awesome article Chris. Forgive me for my US American history but does Britain have common wealth country at the equator that could handle Geo and Leo launch? Would they need to formally join ESA and use French Guiana?
Awesome article Chris. Forgive me for my US American history but does Britain have common wealth country at the equator that could handle Geo and Leo launch?
Quote from: Tomness on 07/15/2014 04:00 pmAwesome article Chris. Forgive me for my US American history but does Britain have common wealth country at the equator that could handle Geo and Leo launch?Commonwealth countries are sovereign entities, would be no different to negotiating a launch site with any other foreign country.The UK however still has some overseas territories, the most interesting as potential launch sites are Ascension Island and Diego Garcia.
Quote from: Alpha_Centauri on 07/15/2014 09:27 pmQuote from: Tomness on 07/15/2014 04:00 pmAwesome article Chris. Forgive me for my US American history but does Britain have common wealth country at the equator that could handle Geo and Leo launch?Commonwealth countries are sovereign entities, would be no different to negotiating a launch site with any other foreign country.The UK however still has some overseas territories, the most interesting as potential launch sites are Ascension Island and Diego Garcia.how about the Falkland islands?
Basing a spaceport on Skylon at best would be a long shot. The technology has not been proven out. I could see another home for Virgin Galactic. That would make more sense. At least that concept is close to success.
Quote from: mr. mark on 07/16/2014 02:30 amBasing a spaceport on Skylon at best would be a long shot. The technology has not been proven out. I could see another home for Virgin Galactic. That would make more sense. At least that concept is close to success. That's debatable.
Bermuda?
{snip}I'm not sure how the runway could be extended to 6km for Skylon as there are roads and villages close to the both ends of the main runway. Take off noise could be a real issue.
Obviously the referendum vote will complicate things as English funding would likely have to be reconsidered.
Could be. But won't be. There are too many alternatives to choose from that make such a move not worth the fallout regarding unpopular press. Especially with elections in the non-too-distant future.More's to the point that the business case has to be proven before the expenditure will occur. Frankly this particular spaceport location decision is vastly unlikely to ever see a Skylon flight or any LEO mission for that matter, and there are no non-US players in the sub-orbital game yet.That means that until something can be done about loosening ITAR for human spacecraft systems (the reverse is actually happening right now, the rules are being actively tightened in this area) this whole embryonic project currently has no real pulse.When I see UKSA has managed to sign a formal deal with US Department of State that released Spaceship2 for export, that's when I'll begin to buy into this concept. Not one second before.US DoS won't do it either, because they have nothing to gain, and everything to lose, by allowing this revenue stream to leave US shores. Keep ITAR locked and they force all that lovely money coming in to the country from all the world's richest people. Why would the US wish to change these current rules in order to split that profit with any other country?Ross.
The list reduces the number of runways first suggested as candidates when last year's consultation got under way.Still in are Campbeltown, Glasgow Prestwick, and Stornoway in Scotland; Newquay in England and Llanbedr in Wales. RAF Leuchars is confirmed as a potential temporary facility.Ministers are keen to see the spaceport established by 2018.
Skylon, for all that it is attractive, is a distraction. The Spaceport would be used for commercial sub-orbital flights only.
Quote from: Tomness on 07/15/2014 04:00 pmAwesome article Chris. Forgive me for my US American history but does Britain have common wealth country at the equator that could handle Geo and Leo launch? Would they need to formally join ESA and use French Guiana?A) Britain is already a member of the ESA.B) The only commonwealth countries close the equator are Guyana and Kenya; Kenya has already been used for space launches the by the Italian space agency in the 60s.
Quote from: Kryten on 07/15/2014 04:49 pmQuote from: Tomness on 07/15/2014 04:00 pmAwesome article Chris. Forgive me for my US American history but does Britain have common wealth country at the equator that could handle Geo and Leo launch? Would they need to formally join ESA and use French Guiana?A) Britain is already a member of the ESA.B) The only commonwealth countries close the equator are Guyana and Kenya; Kenya has already been used for space launches the by the Italian space agency in the 60s.Beal tried to establish a spaceport in Guyana back in 1999: http://www.guyanausa.org/aerospace_company_needs_u.htmReportedly the local government and populace were all for it, but it was squashed by the US State Department.I do sometimes idly daydream about a British-owned 'Kourou II' in Guyana, but I expect any attempt to raise such a proposal would cause the mandarins at the FCO to choke on their Earl Grey...
Quote from: Stellvia on 03/03/2015 04:52 pmBeal tried to establish a spaceport in Guyana back in 1999: http://www.guyanausa.org/aerospace_company_needs_u.htmReportedly the local government and populace were all for it, but it was squashed by the US State Department.I do sometimes idly daydream about a British-owned 'Kourou II' in Guyana, but I expect any attempt to raise such a proposal would cause the mandarins at the FCO to choke on their Earl Grey... Beal also tried to establish one on Sombrero Island, Anguilla, a British Overseas Territory at 18.5°N.There's also a very-similar-to-Kourou location already operational in Alcantara, Brazil at 2.5°S, albeit not British soil.
Beal tried to establish a spaceport in Guyana back in 1999: http://www.guyanausa.org/aerospace_company_needs_u.htmReportedly the local government and populace were all for it, but it was squashed by the US State Department.I do sometimes idly daydream about a British-owned 'Kourou II' in Guyana, but I expect any attempt to raise such a proposal would cause the mandarins at the FCO to choke on their Earl Grey...
Sir Richard Branson wants to take paying passengers into space from a “spaceport” in Britain and has promised that the rocket fuel used will be clean enough to ensure no one buying a ticket will feel guilty about damaging the planet.The 65-year-old entrepreneur said that his company, Virgin Galactic, is back on track to become the first commercial space service – despite the devastating accident in 2014 when SpaceShipTwo disintegrated in a test flight while travelling at 600mph at an altitude of nine miles – killing one of the two test pilots who were on board.In an exclusive interview with The Independent on Sunday, Sir Richard said that his ambitious goal of establishing the first passenger space operation, from Virgin Galactic’s base in the Mojave Desert in California, now extends to operating from a future spaceport in Britain, which is being considered by the Government.
"This is not just about one mission, or about generating new jobs and business. This is about the UK taking our place as a world leader, where our expertise in space technology plays a crucial role – from generating emergency response solutions to flooding, to modernising our communications infrastructure. UK-built telecoms satellites already make-up 25 per cent of the world market, but our ambition is to create our own national launch capability for satellites here in the UK by 2020.""This exciting prospect means UK-built satellites will be sent up from UK soil using a UK launch platform, with UK scientists and developers using the data to create new services and applications."
Moral and regulatory support for a spaceport; no visible fundingThe idea that Britain should develop its own spaceport has long been a slam-dunk headline in the British press, but the government in the past couple of years has stopped short of committing to anything more than a streamlined licensing process.There has been no commitment to funding spaceport development.Nonetheless, the government continues to make statements that are easily interpreted as coming from a future investor.“The Government intends to establish the UK as the European hub for low-cost launch of small satellites,” the government said in its response to the Parliamentary committee.“In parallel, we are supporting the development of the separate emerging market for suborbital flights. If we move quickly, we have the opportunity to be the first to provide both.”The coming Modern Transport Bill will “contain legislation to allow for a variety of launch options, including horizontal, vertical and single-stage-to-orbit systems. The Government intends to introduce safe and practical regulation, together with access to launch ranges, at competitive pricing that will attract commercial operators.”Metcalfe said he was “particularly pleased” that the government had extended its embrace to include both vertical- and horizontal-takeoff vehicles.
New support for British spaceportsThe government is looking to push forward commercial spaceflight activity in the UK with a series of grants totalling £10m.The money is aimed at consortia that want to start launching satellites - and even people - from British soil.Previous feasibility work has already identified a number of aerodromes that might make suitable spaceports - from Cornwall to Scotland.Ministers also intend to introduce supporting legislation.As the law stands, the rocket planes and other launch systems currently in development around the world would not be able to operate out of the UK. The legislation would put in place the necessary regulatory and licensing framework.A Spaceflight Bill is likely to be tabled towards the end of the month.
Powers planned by the Government aiming to pave the way for commercial space flights in Britain will be included in the Queen’s Speech alongside a raft of investments in transport infrastructure. The legislation, according to Department for Transport (DfT), will allow the launch of satellites from the UK for the first time, horizontal flights to the edge of space for scientific experiments and the establishment of spaceports in regions across Britain.
A government plan to secure growth in the UK's £13.7bn space industry is laid out in the Queen's Speech.The stated purpose of the new Bill is to make the UK the most attractive place in Europe for commercial space - including launches from British soil.It would help increase the UK share of the global space economy from 6.5% today to 10% by 2030.Officials and stakeholders are keen to ensure the space sector does not lose out when the UK leaves the EU.Spaceports have been an important sticking point.Previous feasibility work has already identified a number of aerodromes that might make suitable spaceports - from Cornwall to Scotland.But as the law stands, rocket planes and other launch systems currently in development around the world would not be able to operate out of the UK. The Bill would sweep away this barrier by "enabling [scientists] to launch from UK soil".The government says its legislation would "offer the UK's world-leading small satellite companies new options for low-cost, reliable access to space".
While Brexit will not affect the UK's status as a member of the European Space Agency (Esa), projects such as Galileo - the European sat-nav system - are largely funded by the EU.Guildford-based satellite manufacturer SSTL is building satellites for the system as part of a UK-German consortium.But there are restrictions on "third countries" working on classified EU information and technologies, which applies to Galileo.There is now a concerted effort to keep the UK - and SSTL - inside the programme.Likewise, the Copernicus programme - which includes an effort to gather information about the health of the Earth from satellite observations - is directed by the EU in partnership with Esa. The UK invested in the programme with the aim of ensuring access to operational data for industry and academia.
The survey further concludes that Britain, whose government wants to encourage, but not subsidize, a domestic launch capability, would be best served by importing a small Chinese rocket if it really wants to help create a long-term made-in-UK launch service....Surveys presented here by small-satellite builder Surrey Satellite Technology Ltd. (SSTL) and Commercial Space Technologies Ltd. (CST), both of Britain, concluded that small-satellite owners will have to choose between per-kilogram launch costs that are about double the rate of India’s PSLV, the Russian Soyuz and ride-shares available from SpaceX; or stick with these established rockets.There is one possible exception: China. At least three vehicles, one of them being developed by a pioneering private-sector operator called Landspace, advertise prices that, on a per-kilogram basis, are more in line with today’s larger rockets.Under contract from Britain’s Innovate UK, which is examining what it would take to have a rocket on British soil by 2020 — possibly an impossible date in any event — concluded that another Chinese rocket, the Long March 11, would be the best fit from a technical and economic perspective.The Long March 11, operated by China Great Wall Industry Corp., has launched twice, both times successfully.CST’s Alan Webb said initial contacts with China Great Wall, and with Landspace, suggest exporting their vehicles to Britain could be done without scuttling the financial viability of the business....Landspace has already contracted with at least one non-Chinese customer, small-satellite builder GomSpace of Denmark, for a 2018 launch. Webb said the fact that Landscape is a private company may make any export of the vehicle to the UK an easier matter for Chinese regulators.The UK debate over a domestic launch capability is occurring without any government commitment of financial support for the undertaking beyond R&D associated with the establishment of a spaceport.“The UK is very clear that such a launch vehicle would have to be commercially self-sustaining,” Webb said. They are supporting some grants, through small financial means, but this is for spaceports and operators to close a business plan rather than support for infrastructure and hardware. Whatever launch service establishes itself in the UK really needs to be self-sustaining.”
ITAR vs MTCRThat too limits the alternatives.Any import of U.S. launch technology would face International Trade in Arms Regulations (ITAR), whose restrictions may make such a deal impossible or subject to conditions unacceptable to a UK operator.Ultimately the case for a Chinese rocket fell apart — likely definitively — not because of ITAR, but because of the Missile Technology Control Regime (MTCR), an agreement among 35 nations, including NATO members, in 1987. The voluntary partnership seeks to limit the traffic in missile delivery systems. China is not an MTCR signatory but has said it would abide by the agreement.Conclusion: “We cant see any appetite in the UK, and we’re not sure about the Chinese government, for overcoming this hurdle,” Webb said.
I'm not sure, but SIR reports the British is considering importing Chinese CZ-11 or LandSpace LS-1 rocket for their domestic space launch capability
