Author Topic: SpaceX Falcon 9 - Iridium NEXT Flight 1 DISCUSSION (Jan. 14 2017)  (Read 285875 times)

Offline Semmel

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yeah, the stuffin.space web page shows a completely different orbit for object M. Its almost 90 degrees apart from the others. That would take several thousand m/s of dv to get there in this short time period of a few days. Either the data is wrong or object M has nothing to do with the iridium constellation.

Online AncientU

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A Microsat moving with a Hall thruster?

An 'unannounced' payload?

Could it be one of SpaceX's test sats for their constellation?

There would be nothing forcing them to announce it in advance, right?

I believe that they've applied to FCC for test sats... don't know if yet approved.  SpaceX could have privately worked with Iridium to share the ride or at least inform the customer of their intent.
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Offline stcks

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It's not that unusual to get garbage in the TLEs.
My current theory:
The TLEs for 41927 prior to this one referred to a nonexistent object created by confusing measurements
of Iridium Fred on one orbit with Iridium Joe on the next orbit.
They just realized this - oh, there are only 10 objects!
They then reassigned 41927 to a newly found debris object from an unrelated launch (maybe from an old Transit sat judging from the orbit). But they forgot to change the international ID.
If my theory is correct, the international ID for 41927 will change in a day or two.
Complicated, but it wouldn't be the first time something basically identical has happened

Thank you jcm, this is excellent. I think that at this point the notion of a failed second stage relight can be put to bed for good.

Offline jcm

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yeah, the stuffin.space web page shows a completely different orbit for object M. Its almost 90 degrees apart from the others. That would take several thousand m/s of dv to get there in this short time period of a few days. Either the data is wrong or object M has nothing to do with the iridium constellation.

Well, also the point is that the object being called object M today isn't to do with Irid, but it's not the same
object as the object that was being called object M a few days ago.
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Offline gongora

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Holy moly!!

https://www.flickr.com/photos/spacex

Photos now they've got the reel of film back from the ASDS:

Hey Chris, do you reely think they're still using film...?  ::)

Digital Trends: How did SpaceX snap this stunning rocket-landing photo?
Quote
Photography buffs will be interested to learn that the shot was taken using a Canon EOS 6D DSLR. Set at ISO 125 for superior image quality, the shutter fired at a super-speedy 1/2500th of a second. Aperture and lens type aren’t noted.

Offline gongora

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Aireon Announces Successful First Launch for Space-Based ADS-B Network

Quote
Iridium NEXT satellites successfully launch from Vandenberg Air Force Base

McLean, Virginia (January 14, 2017) – Aireon announced today the successful launch and deployment of the first ten satellites hosting its space-based automatic dependent surveillance broadcast (ADS-B) system.  Part of the Iridium NEXT satellite constellation, Aireon’s space-based ADS-B network will transform air traffic management capabilities, providing real-time air traffic surveillance and flight tracking across 100 percent of the planet.  ...
...
Once in orbit, each satellite will undergo extensive testing by the Iridium team. After approximately 40-60 days Iridium will hand-off the ADS-B payloads to Aireon for verification of on-orbit technical specifications. Aireon will then conduct rigorous independent testing and validation of the space-based ADS-B system for approximately 60 days. As part of this testing and validation process, Aireon’s ADS-B receivers, which were manufactured by Harris Corporation, will provide air traffic surveillance data through the Aireon network to the Service Delivery Points (SDPs) at partners NAV CANADA, NATS, ENAV, the Irish Aviation Authority (IAA), as well as the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) William J. Hughes Technical Center in Atlantic City, New Jersey.
...
Aireon, formed by Iridium Communications and investors NAV CANADA, ENAV, the Irish Aviation Authority (IAA) and Naviair, will be operational in 2018. The advent of space-based ADS-B is expected to show a remarkable ability to increase safety and efficiency while simultaneously reducing greenhouse gas emissions, as noted in studies conducted by the Flight Safety Foundation and Purdue University, in addition to signed agreements with many of the world’s leading ANSPs.
...
The network will also provide a new service known as Aireon ALERTSM, a free global emergency-aircraft tracking service that will be hosted and operated by the IAA.  Earlier this year, Aireon also announced a partnership with FlightAware, and together launched the GlobalBeaconSM flight tracking service.  GlobalBeacon is designed to help airlines comply with the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) Global Aeronautical Distress Safety System (GADSS) requirements, and will provide airlines with minute-by-minute flight tracking data.
...

Offline rsdavis9

So will this help with flights like mh370?
Where is the transmitter in the plane?
« Last Edit: 01/19/2017 04:10 PM by rsdavis9 »
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Online John Alan

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So will this help with flights like mh370?
Where is the transmitter in the plane?

Yes...
I don't have the linkage to back this real handy...
But a ADS-B transponder that can NOT be turned off in flight is a worldwide requirement being implemented...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatic_dependent_surveillance_%E2%80%93_broadcast
Some Iridium sats are carrying an added module that will forward these signals on to someone who will be watching 24/7/365 once fully implemented...

On edit... the above is my quick reply to the question... not an expert on this however...  ;)
« Last Edit: 01/19/2017 05:36 PM by John Alan »

Offline Oersted

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Holy moly!!

https://www.flickr.com/photos/spacex

Photos now they've got the reel of film back from the ASDS:

Truly one of the most spectacular photos to ever come out of spaceflight. On purpose or not (I'd say probably not) the sun angle, the shade and angle of the legs, the size of the landing circle underneath, the hazy air thrown up by the rocket engine, and the body of the booster just blocking out the sun all come together for a magnificent composition.

Online meekGee

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Holy moly!!

https://www.flickr.com/photos/spacex

Photos now they've got the reel of film back from the ASDS:

Truly one of the most spectacular photos to ever come out of spaceflight. On purpose or not (I'd say probably not) the sun angle, the shade and angle of the legs, the size of the landing circle underneath, the hazy air thrown up by the rocket engine, and the body of the booster just blocking out the sun all come together for a magnificent composition.

Expect #1 on Aviation Week's photo edition...  Except it's only January...
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Offline jcm

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It's not that unusual to get garbage in the TLEs.
My current theory:
The TLEs for 41927 prior to this one referred to a nonexistent object created by confusing measurements
of Iridium Fred on one orbit with Iridium Joe on the next orbit.
They just realized this - oh, there are only 10 objects!
They then reassigned 41927 to a newly found debris object from an unrelated launch (maybe from an old Transit sat judging from the orbit). But they forgot to change the international ID.
If my theory is correct, the international ID for 41927 will change in a day or two.
Complicated, but it wouldn't be the first time something basically identical has happened

Thank you jcm, this is excellent. I think that at this point the notion of a failed second stage relight can be put to bed for good.

Indeed, 41927 is now officially reassigned to Transit navigation satellite debris 1964-083S, a newly catalog piece
that flaked off the 5E-5 research satellite from that launch - exactly as I predicted
The TLEs in the 86 degree orbit were spurious and belong to one or more of the other Iridium sats
I conclude that the stage 2 deorbit indeed happened as per plan on the first orbit or so
« Last Edit: 01/19/2017 08:37 PM by jcm »
-----------------------------

Jonathan McDowell
http://planet4589.org

yeah, the stuffin.space web page shows a completely different orbit for object M. Its almost 90 degrees apart from the others. That would take several thousand m/s of dv to get there in this short time period of a few days. Either the data is wrong or object M has nothing to do with the iridium constellation.

OBJECT M - Satellite Information   Home | Passes | Orbit | Close encounters
Designation
Spacetrack catalog number   41927
COSPAR ID   1964-083-S
Name in Spacetrack catalog   TRANSIT 5E-5 DEB
Satellite Details

Orbit   735 x 863 km, 89.9°
Category   unknown
Country/organisation of origin   United States
Intrinsic brightness (Magnitude)   ?
Launch

Date (UTC)   13 December 1964 00:08
Launch site   Vandenberg AFB,
United States
Launch vehicle   Thor Ablestar

Offline Helodriver

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So here are the shots I managed to get of the Iridium launch. I arrived back from Africa the day of the mission and I opted for the direct view from the mesa on the north side of the Santa Ynez River due to the super clear weather. Many SpaceXers were in attendance there.

Renwick/Ocean Avenue were a tad closer, with a great crowd (see first pic) but with intervening hills blocking direct view of liftoff.

My just in time return makes me 3 for 3 on seeing Falcon 9 launches from Vandenberg. :)
« Last Edit: 01/20/2017 10:17 PM by Helodriver »

Offline Kansan52

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My just in time return makes me 3 for 3 on seeing Falcon 9 launches from Vandenberg. :)

I'm jealous!

Offline mme

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... I opted for the direct view from the mesa on the north side of the Santa Ynez River due to the super clear weather. ...
That's not Provedence Landing Park is it?  If not, can you give GPS coordinates or cross streets for the location?  I was on Ocean and it was awesome (my first launch).
Space is not Highlander.  There can, and will, be more than one.

Offline manoweb

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I opted for the direct view from the mesa on the north side of the Santa Ynez River due to the super clear weather.

Hello Helodriver, I went down the previous launch (the foggy one) and I spent the whole day before to scout for places. I even went up to the Santa Ynez peak with quite a bit of offroading (only to have ten meter visibility at top). However, I'm not familiar with the location you have listed. I am interested in understanding how far was from the launchpad.

I thought the location on Ocean was fantastic, with so many people to interact (and I've made good friends there!) and very very nice also to see a RTLS, FH, etc. I have three small children so I value more being able to see (and feel!) as close as possible compared to a more "technical" location, but I would not mind having the place you mentioned in my GPS, just in case :)

Offline Helodriver

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This is the spot, but you need base access to go there. It has direct level unobstructed views to the launch and landing sites from about 5 miles away.

https://goo.gl/maps/GhYRD5DN5gk

Offline CyndyC

No, launch vehicles are autonomous and don't receive any ground commands.

Which makes something Lauren Lyons said in the hosted webcast very surprising and maybe worth some extra attention, assuming she can be taken literally, "Once Falcon 9 gets to the right orbit, SpaceX will send a separation signal to the dispensers deploying the satellites one by one, 100 seconds apart at an altitude of 625km above the earth."

Link starts a few seconds before:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTmbSur4fcs?t=8m16s
« Last Edit: 01/21/2017 10:05 PM by CyndyC »
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Online meekGee

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No, launch vehicles are autonomous and don't receive any ground commands.

Which makes something Lauren Lyons said in the hosted webcast very surprising and maybe worth some extra attention, assuming she can be taken literally, "Once Falcon 9 gets to the right orbit, SpaceX will send a separation signal to the dispensers deploying the satellites one by one, 100 seconds apart at an altitude of 625km above the earth."

Link starts a few seconds before:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTmbSur4fcs?t=8m16s

Remember the satellites deployed even when the down-link was broken, so clearly there's default programming that's pre-scheduled.

But, and this was a debate that recurred many times, the "simple controller" model of traditional launch vehicles is a result of the era in which they were designed, and a computational capacity of a gnat.

There is no reason why a flying vehicle designed from scratch in the 21st century would abide by any of those rules, and every time we get a glimpse into how things are done, it's clear that F9 is a lot cleverer then a simple automaton.
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Offline CyndyC

But, and this was a debate that recurred many times, the "simple controller" model of traditional launch vehicles is a result of the era in which they were designed, and a computational capacity of a gnat.

There is no reason why a flying vehicle designed from scratch in the 21st century would abide by any of those rules, and every time we get a glimpse into how things are done, it's clear that F9 is a lot cleverer then a simple automaton.

That's what I was wondering, if this could be a harbinger of more ground control to come, except would mission control really want or need it? It might add too much complexity to already complex procedures.
« Last Edit: 01/21/2017 11:15 PM by CyndyC »
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