Author Topic: SpaceX Falcon 9 - Iridium NEXT Flight 1 DISCUSSION (Jan. 14 2017)  (Read 286049 times)

Online gongora

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Tweet from Peter B. de Selding:
Quote
Sat-based maritime tracking co @exactEarth: 4 of 10 @IridiumComm sats launched Jan. 14 carry our exactView™ RT powered by Harris payloads.

These ExactEarth AIS maritime tracking payloads should be on 58 65 of the sats, and the Aireon ADS-B flight tracking payloads should be on all of the sats.

edit: apparently the number of hosted payloads has increased from 58 to 65 since the initial announcements.
exactEarth: The Next Generation Satellite AIS Constellation Provides Real-Time Global Ship Tracking
« Last Edit: 01/24/2017 07:47 PM by gongora »

Offline su27k

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I've also been wondering about the orbit.  Some pre-launch discussion described a planned 667 km insertion orbit.  The tracked orbit was more like 620 km.

Iridium CEO tweeted before the launch (couple weeks ago?) that the parking orbit was 625km.

And from their FCC application: https://apps.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-16-875A1.pdf

Quote
The initial insertion orbit for Iridium second-generation
satellites is a 625 km altitude circular orbit with an inclination of 86.66 degrees.

Offline Bynaus

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The fairing separation not showing up in the "progress bar" might simply be due to available space there.

That the two halfes do appear at different distances from S2 could simply be a perspective effect (the "second" fairing half would simply be lost in the glare of the upper stage engine in the first image edkyle posted). I also re-watched both the technical and hosted webcasts at the time in question and could not find a moment when the audience "gasps" or so. So I think this whole thing is spurious and everything went just fine.

Online gongora

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And from their FCC application: https://apps.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-16-875A1.pdf

This document also answers some of starhawk92's questions:
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Iridium proposes to replace its existing constellation with a new constellation using the same orbital parameters, providing the same global coverage, and transmitting on the same frequency bands. Like Iridium’s first-generation satellites, the new satellites will be capable of operating in the entire 1616-1626.5 MHz band; however, Iridium here requests no change from the operating frequencies specified for its first-generation satellites. To provide continuous service during the transition, Iridium proposes to replace its existing satellites one-for-one with new satellites as they are launched.

Offline OnWithTheShow

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The crowd noise is heard at 22:58 of the hosted webcast 03:19 mission elapsed time just after they cut away from the inside the fairing shot.

Online gongora

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The crowd noise is heard at 22:58 of the hosted webcast 03:19 mission elapsed time just after they cut away from the inside the fairing shot.

I really didn't notice much noise or reaction from the crowd at that point in the webcast.

Offline edkyle99

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The crowd noise is heard at 22:58 of the hosted webcast 03:19 mission elapsed time just after they cut away from the inside the fairing shot.

I really didn't notice much noise or reaction from the crowd at that point in the webcast.
It's more like a collective murmur.  Perhaps their on-board view also cut off at that time.  Agree after this discussion that there is no issue with the orbit or any certain indication of a fairing separation problem.  I think the crowd reaction would have been more substantive if, say, a fairing half had hung on for too long!

 - Ed Kyle

Online gongora

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Space Intel Report: SpaceX's return to flight removes Iridium's Sword of Damocles
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...
Desch said the 10 satellites launched on Jan. 14 will be sent into Iridium’s plane 6. Eight will stay there; the two others will be drifted over to Plane 5.

That will fill the most glaring hole in Iridium’s coverage. “For our next launch, in April, we’ll launch into Plane 3 — that’s the other hole,” Desch said. “Every launch provides resilience and redundancy to the existing network.”
...
“The way I look at it, even if they only get 10 launches off I think I have a good shot at getting my five” because of the less-crowded manifest at Vandenberg, Desch said. “We have 20 or more satellites in the factory and ready — enough for two launches. We are really only gated now by the rockets.”
...

So it sounds like Iridium expects at least 5 launches this year, and any two flights (after the second one) could be as little as 45 days apart.

Online stcks

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Compared to previous flights, the fairing separation appeared fairly nominal from the infrared camera view.

The thing that really confuses me with this flight is that there are still 11 objects in orbit. Either the second stage did not perform its deorbit burn at all or there is a piece of debris associated with this launch (or some other sat).

https://www.celestrak.com/NORAD/elements/tle-new.txt


Offline Bynaus

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Satellite dispenser?

Online stcks

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Satellite dispenser?

Why would that come off? Logical conclusion is the 11th object is the stage

Offline Bynaus

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Satellite dispenser?

Why would that come off? Logical conclusion is the 11th object is the stage

You are right of course. Stupid thinking on my part. So when do we expect that de-orbit burn that Elon mentioned on Twitter?

Offline old_sellsword

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Satellite dispenser?

Why would that come off? Logical conclusion is the 11th object is the stage

You are right of course. Stupid thinking on my part. So when do we expect that de-orbit burn that Elon mentioned on Twitter?

If it hasn't happened by now, it won't happen at all. Falcon 9 S2 can hardly last a couple hours.

Online stcks

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Satellite dispenser?

Why would that come off? Logical conclusion is the 11th object is the stage

You are right of course. Stupid thinking on my part. So when do we expect that de-orbit burn that Elon mentioned on Twitter?

If it hasn't happened by now, it won't happen at all. Falcon 9 S2 can hardly last a couple hours.

Right, if the 11th object is real, and is stage 2, then the window for relight has long since passed and it will be up there in orbit for many many years to come. If its not the stage then I have no idea what it could be.

If it was in fact a failed relight of the second stage, I wonder how that affects SpaceX operations for the next flights.

Offline Space Ghost 1962

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To reiterate, SX is losing customer payloads for no good reasons. They can innovate and use agile - that's fine. But to do so w/o the unacceptable LOM means you have to do far better than they are doing.

And I'm certain Musk himself would agree with me on this point. Ask him.
Emphasis mine (this time)
Practically every customer payload ever lost (no matter who the launch service provider was/is) was lost for no good reason.

There is a difference. The whole point of systems engineering is to constrain sources of risk. And Atlas/Ariane prove this effectiveness on a routine basis.

"No good reason" means if you apply your process/procedure, you catch it before it happens.

There are "good reasons" LOM's. They are extremely few by design. Otherwise there would be no benefit to process/procedure.

Quote
SpaceX may be doing Agile but everyone has lost customer payloads for no good reasons.
Reuse greatly increases launch frequency, meaning this matters even more than Atlas/Ariane.
« Last Edit: 01/16/2017 06:17 PM by gongora »

Offline bstrong

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It's more like a collective murmur.  Perhaps their on-board view also cut off at that time.  Agree after this discussion that there is no issue with the orbit or any certain indication of a fairing separation problem.  I think the crowd reaction would have been more substantive if, say, a fairing half had hung on for too long!

 - Ed Kyle

I always assumed they only had one channel of video from the S2 and that camera switches were done onboard according to a preprogrammed script. If this is the case (someone please correct me if I am wrong), then they would have seen the same thing we did.

It does seem odd that they would deliberately not transmit the video of the fairing separation, even if they didn't want to show it to us, so maybe the camera timing was off or the separation was late?

Online rockets4life97

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I haven't watched all the launches, but I don't remember ever seeing the view of the fairing separation from the view of the second stage. When I've seen the separation (as far as I can remember), it is usually from ground or first stage cameras.

Online stcks

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I haven't watched all the launches, but I don't remember ever seeing the view of the fairing separation from the view of the second stage. When I've seen the separation (as far as I can remember), it is usually from ground or first stage cameras.

Its on the webcasts, like these:

JCSAT-16: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OERDIFnFvHs?t=1232
Eutelsat/ABS: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckjP8stlzxI?t=1296
Thaicom-8: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPYOtCFSLKw?t=1508
etc..
« Last Edit: 01/16/2017 07:35 PM by stcks »

Online rockets4life97

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I haven't watched all the launches, but I don't remember ever seeing the view of the fairing separation from the view of the second stage. When I've seen the separation (as far as I can remember), it is usually from ground or first stage cameras.

Its on the webcasts, like this from JCSAT-16: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OERDIFnFvHs?t=1232

Thanks! My memory clearly isn't perfect.

Online jcm

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Satellite dispenser?

Why would that come off? Logical conclusion is the 11th object is the stage

You are right of course. Stupid thinking on my part. So when do we expect that de-orbit burn that Elon mentioned on Twitter?

If it hasn't happened by now, it won't happen at all. Falcon 9 S2 can hardly last a couple hours.

Right, if the 11th object is real, and is stage 2, then the window for relight has long since passed and it will be up there in orbit for many many years to come. If its not the stage then I have no idea what it could be.

If it was in fact a failed relight of the second stage, I wonder how that affects SpaceX operations for the next flights.

Seems now that the 11th object is real - still getting TLEs today for all 11.
In SpaceTrack as objects A to K and object M (which I think is just a mistake, should be L). At some point they will identify them, and possibly before then they will fill in a radar cross section value of 'Large', 'Medium' or 'Small'.
If it's Large, then it's the second stage; if Small, then just a piece of debris. So stay tuned for a few more days
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Jonathan McDowell
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