Author Topic: SpaceX Falcon 9 - EchoStar 23 - March 16, 2017 - DISCUSSION  (Read 399359 times)

Offline Robotbeat

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 - EchoStar 23 - March 16, 2017 - DISCUSSION
« Reply #500 on: 03/20/2017 02:05 AM »
Yeah, most two stage kerolox LVs tend to be used for LEO/SSO campaigns.

A more relevant comparison would be to something like Zenit-3SL/SLB, for the title of best GTO performance for a Kerolox rocket.

Zenit wins this one I think, with Spaceway 1 (6080kg). It also wins while weighing almost a hundred tonnes less. And wins the LEO performance record too (in the two stage SB variant), with Phobos Grunt.

 F9 could possibly match that performance in expendable mode, even with one less stage. I don't think that SpaceX will fly something like this anytime soon though (the idea is to send those payloads to FH, rather than flying F9 expendable missions).
Zenit only wins because it is a three stager when flown to GTO, though.

That's the impressive part: just 2 stages to a high(ish) energy orbit without either stage being hydrogen fueled.

SpaceX gets dang good mass fraction. So good that it usually even recover the first stage when payloads near this big are flown.
« Last Edit: 03/20/2017 02:10 AM by Robotbeat »
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Offline docmordrid

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 - EchoStar 23 - March 16, 2017 - DISCUSSION
« Reply #501 on: 03/20/2017 02:58 AM »
>
Zenit wins this one I think, with Spaceway 1 (6080kg).
>

Gunter has the upcoming Intelsat 35e listed as "~6,000 kg." Should be interesting to see the final number.
« Last Edit: 03/20/2017 03:01 AM by docmordrid »
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Offline Herb Schaltegger

Zenit-3SL also has (had?) the advantage of launching from the equator.
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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 - EchoStar 23 - March 16, 2017 - DISCUSSION
« Reply #503 on: 03/20/2017 12:32 PM »
Yeah, most two stage kerolox LVs tend to be used for LEO/SSO campaigns.

A more relevant comparison would be to something like Zenit-3SL/SLB, for the title of best GTO performance for a Kerolox rocket.

Zenit wins this one I think, with Spaceway 1 (6080kg). It also wins while weighing almost a hundred tonnes less. And wins the LEO performance record too (in the two stage SB variant), with Phobos Grunt.

 F9 could possibly match that performance in expendable mode, even with one less stage. I don't think that SpaceX will fly something like this anytime soon though (the idea is to send those payloads to FH, rather than flying F9 expendable missions).

F9 has a 6100kg comsat on the schedule next month, and a 6000kg comsat the month after that.  Will be interesting to see what orbits they end up in.

Online kevin-rf

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 - EchoStar 23 - March 16, 2017 - DISCUSSION
« Reply #504 on: 03/20/2017 01:06 PM »
F9 has a 6100kg comsat on the schedule next month, and a 6000kg comsat the month after that.  Will be interesting to see what orbits they end up in.
More interesting will be what stage recovery options they chose.
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Online abaddon

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 - EchoStar 23 - March 16, 2017 - DISCUSSION
« Reply #505 on: 03/20/2017 01:38 PM »
F9 has a 6100kg comsat on the schedule next month, and a 6000kg comsat the month after that.  Will be interesting to see what orbits they end up in.
More interesting will be what stage recovery options they chose.
Seems extremely unlikely they will be able to recover these stages.  We had heard that SpaceX was planning on several expendable flights on the manifest even before the recent LOM, and these seem like obvious candidates.

They might as well expend a few boosters now before Block 5 and or Falcon Heavy is operational. They have enough non Block 5 landed boosters hanging around already. I can see SES-10 as a proof of concept, and perhaps the side boosters for Falcon Heavy, but IMHO they probably don't really want to refly a ton of non block 5 Falcon 9s. Perhaps they can donate a few to some Space Museums?

Offline ATPTourFan

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 - EchoStar 23 - March 16, 2017 - DISCUSSION
« Reply #507 on: 03/20/2017 01:52 PM »
It seems these expendable launches are conveniently positioned in the manifest. I don't think SpaceX will have any shortage of Block 3/4 cores this year, so collecting more max-damage type GTO flight cores just clutters up their flows (even if some are technically on the margin of recoverability). Nobody likes to see a core expended, but if that's what it takes to get these heavy GTO sats delivered safely, that's fine with me.

Once Block 5 comes and Falcon Heavy is available, those will be the cores they want to preserve due to their increased re-usability (per Elon) compared to once or twice for current Block 3/4 cores (and with fairly significant refurbishment at that). In the mean time, only recover cores RTLS or comfortably down-range on ASDS to maximize core recovery efficiency.

EDIT: El Guapo beat me to my idea! Well done.
« Last Edit: 03/20/2017 01:53 PM by ATPTourFan »

Offline rpapo

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 - EchoStar 23 - March 16, 2017 - DISCUSSION
« Reply #508 on: 03/20/2017 03:35 PM »
Yes, unless they still need or want some data points on vehicle wear and tear.
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Online Steven Pietrobon

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 - EchoStar 23 - March 16, 2017 - DISCUSSION
« Reply #509 on: 03/21/2017 08:49 AM »
F9 has a 6100kg comsat on the schedule next month, and a 6000kg comsat the month after that.  Will be interesting to see what orbits they end up in.

Err, GTO? The SpaceX webpage says 8300 kg to GTO for expendable missions.

http://www.spacex.com/falcon9
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Offline Dante80

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 - EchoStar 23 - March 16, 2017 - DISCUSSION
« Reply #510 on: 03/21/2017 09:43 AM »
We were talking about proven capability in the string above, not theoretical.

Also - I might be wrong on this - I think that the current theoretical performance numbers apply to block V.

Offline Brovane

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 - EchoStar 23 - March 16, 2017 - DISCUSSION
« Reply #511 on: 03/21/2017 10:44 AM »
Yeah, most two stage kerolox LVs tend to be used for LEO/SSO campaigns.

A more relevant comparison would be to something like Zenit-3SL/SLB, for the title of best GTO performance for a Kerolox rocket.

Zenit wins this one I think, with Spaceway 1 (6080kg). It also wins while weighing almost a hundred tonnes less. And wins the LEO performance record too (in the two stage SB variant), with Phobos Grunt.

 F9 could possibly match that performance in expendable mode, even with one less stage. I don't think that SpaceX will fly something like this anytime soon though (the idea is to send those payloads to FH, rather than flying F9 expendable missions).

F9 has a 6100kg comsat on the schedule next month, and a 6000kg comsat the month after that.  Will be interesting to see what orbits they end up in.

Where these birds originally manifested on the FH? 
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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 - EchoStar 23 - March 16, 2017 - DISCUSSION
« Reply #512 on: 03/22/2017 12:21 AM »
Tweet from Jonathan McDowell
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Echostar 23, launched by @SpaceX Falcon 9 on Mar 16, has begun orbit raising. Now in 21814 x 35874 km x 2.5 deg orbit, on the way to GEO

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 - EchoStar 23 - March 16, 2017 - DISCUSSION
« Reply #513 on: 05/12/2017 04:32 PM »
[Space Intel Report] EchoStar designing Jupiter-3 satellite for service in 2021
Quote
The EchoStar-23 satellite was launched in March into EchoStar’s new 45 degrees West orbital slot, won at a Brazilian slot and frequency auction. But for the moment, it appears to be all dressed up with nowhere to go.

It’s Ku-band payload has been formally placed into service under Brazilian regulatory rules, but to date EchoStar has found no partners for a direct-to-home television or other service.

“Things have been very challenging down there,” Dugan said.

EchoStar-23 also has an S- and Ka-band payload but these frequencies are caught up in a discussion of whether Brazil has priority rights to operate them at this orbital location since other satellites are ahead of Brazil at the International Telecommunication Union.

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