ROSCOSMOS PPTS Manned Spaceflight Program

[fregate]

Decided to open a new subject dedicated to PPTS Program in general - we already have a subject for a New Generation  Manned Transportation Vehicle (PTK NP). 

[Stan Black]

Создание перспективной пилотируемой транспортной системы первого этапа в части разработки технического проекта» Шифр: ОКР «ППТС» (1-й этап)

http://www.zakupkiold.gov.ru/Tender/ViewPurchase.aspx?PurchaseId=919242

Выполнение составной части научно-исследовательской работы «Системные исследования и разработка предложений по реализации стратегических целей развития пилотируемых программ, включая определение проектного облика и ТТХ космических средств для освоения Луны и космического пространства за пределами низких околоземных орбит, создания перспективных технических средств орбитального и напланетного базирования, транспортных систем на период до 2030 года и дальнейшую перспективу» Шифр: СЧ НИР «Магистраль» (Облик-ПК).

http://www.zakupki.gov.ru/epz/order/notice/ok44/view/common-info.html?regNumber=0173100007014000103

Выполнение составной части опытно-конструкторской работы «Создание опытных образцов перспективных ключевых систем и технологий в обеспечение создания элементов перспективной космической инфраструктуры в части разработки технического предложения и эскизного проекта» Шифр СЧ ОКР: «ППТС» (Перспектива – ТП, ЭП).]

http://www.zakupki.gov.ru/epz/order/notice/ok44/view/common-info.html?regNumber=0173100007014000104

«Создание пилотируемого транспортного комплекса нового поколения» (в части работ 2013 – 2015 гг.) Шифр ОКР: «ППТС» (1-й этап)

http://www.zakupki.gov.ru/pgz/public/action/orders/info/common_info/show?notificationId=7345995
http://www.zakupki.gov.ru/pgz/public/action/orders/info/common_info/show?notificationId=7443262

Разработка технического предложения и эскизного проекта на экспериментальные образцы и элементы перспективных ключевых систем и технологий в обеспечение создания перспективных межпланетных комплексов Шифр СЧ ОКР: «ППТС» (Перспектива-ТП,ЭП)

http://www.zakupki.gov.ru/pgz/public/action/orders/info/common_info/show?notificationId=5815358
http://www.zakupki.gov.ru/pgz/public/action/orders/info/common_info/show?notificationId=5950025

"Создание перспективной пилотируемой транспортной системы нового поколения для транспортно-технического обслуживания орбитальных пилотируемых станций, перспективных пилотируемых космических комплексов и других объектов околоземной орбитальной группировки в части разработки эскизного проекта". Шифр: ОКР "ППТС".

http://www.zakupkiold.gov.ru/Tender/ViewPurchase.aspx?PurchaseId=289544

[Danderman]

I am guessing that PPTS is the overall exploration program, and so the PPTS study contracts mentioned in the other thread are not for spacecraft development, but rather for development of associated technologies.

For those with long memories, the Reagan Administration had an exploration program called "Pathfinder" that generated a bunch of study contracts that would One Day Lead to People Going to Mars.

[russianhalo117]

I am guessing that PPTS is the overall exploration program, and so the PPTS study contracts mentioned in the other thread are not for spacecraft development, but rather for development of associated technologies.

For those with long memories, the Reagan Administration had an exploration program called "Pathfinder" that generated a bunch of study contracts that would One Day Lead to People Going to Mars.

Anatoly Zak lists PPTS as such.

[fregate]

IMHO "Magistral"  AND "Magistral-2" are similar to NASA Pathfinder program to define strategy and concept, PPTS seems to belong to the tactical level - before last year it was dedicated to Manned spacecraft (PTK NP familly) and man-rated launch vehicle (cancelled RUS-M). Now we could see additional hardware that  been allocated by Roscosmos under PPTS "umbrella".     

[fregate]

Novosti Kosmonavtiki forum news

18.09.2014 НПО "Андроидная техника" приступает к разработке робота-космонавта, опытный образец которого ожидается в 2016-м году

Опытный образец российского робота-космонавта будет создан в 2016 году, сообщил журналистам исполнительный директор НПО "Андроидная техника" Владислав Сычков.

"Роскосмос запускает опытно-конструкторские работы "Перспектива", составной частью которых является робототехническая система для поддержки экипажа. Этой частью работ мы планируем заняться уже в этом году. Планируется в течение двух лет сделать эскизное проектирование, полностью разработать конструкторскую документацию и на выходе представить полнофункциональный макет", - сказал он, отвечая на вопрос "Интерфакса-АВН".

В основу данного робота-космонавта будет положен антропоморфный робот SAR-401, представленный в конце ноября 2013 года в Центре подготовки космонавтов.

"Следующий образец будет внешне отличаться от него", - сказал Сычков.

По его словам, электродвигатели для робота-космонавта будут закупаться в Швейцарии, а волновые редукторы - в Германии. Санкции на данное направление не распространяются. "С их стороны не было озвучено, что какие-либо санкции будут влиять на наши отношения. Ограничений пока никаких нет", - сказал представитель НПО.

"Мозги" у робота-космонавта будут российскими. "В том образце, который сейчас будет проектироваться, не будет импортных комплектующих, и электронная часть вся будет из российских комплектующих", - сказал Сычков.

По его словам, в роботе-космонавте будут применены процессоры российского производства серии "Эльбрус" разработки Института электроники управляющих машин.

18th of September 2014 NPO "Androidnaya Technika" committed development of the robot-cosmonaut, the first prototype is expected in 2016.
Prototype of the Russian robot-cosmonaut would be created in 2016, said to journalists Managing Director of  NPO "Androidnaya Technika" Vladoslav Sychkov.
"[Russian Space Agency] Roskosmos is initiating R&D Project with codename "Persrpektiva", and one of its integrated parts [objectives] is a robotic system for crew support. We are planning to start this part of the SoW till fall. During next two years we are going to deliver a completed preliminary design, produce a full set of design documentation and finally manufacture a full-fledged prototype" - he said , answering to the question of the INTERFAX-AVN [news agency].
Robot-cosmonaut would be based on design of anthropomorphic robot SAR-401, that had been presented in the end of November 2013 in Cosmonauts Training Center.   
"Our next test article would be quite different [from SAR-401]" - said Sychkov 

According to him, electrical servomotors for Robot-cosmonaut would be purchased in Switzerland, harmonic drive transmission units - in Germany. [Western] sanction do not cover this kind of hardware.
Suppliers did not announced that partnership with company might be affected by [political] sanctions. We are not aware about any trade restrictions - said representative of NPO.

"Brains" for robot-cosmonaut would be made in Russia. For a prototype under design we would have only Russian [electro-mechanic and] electronic components without any overseas suppliers. "  - said Sychkov   
Axxording to him, robot-cosmonaut would use made in Russia CPU Elbrus series (designed by Institute of Electronic Control Machines.

Personally I am quite surprised that this contract had not been granted to St Peterburg TsNII of Robotics managed by Lopota Junior    

[B. Hendrickx]

Several Russian news reports in the past week say that a panel of independent experts invited by deputy prime minister Dmitriy Rogozin to study the proposed Federal Space Program for 2016-2025 have strongly criticized Russia’s ambitious plans for a manned lunar program. They say the lunar program is too expensive and  lacks a sense of purpose (not clearly aimed at establishing a lunar base) .

The experts question the wisdom of developing a next-generation piloted vehicle (PTK NP) to succeed Soyuz and see no need for using it both for Earth orbital and lunar missions :  “It is unclear what advantages it has over Soyuz : it is heavier, lacks a living compartment and requires a new launch vehicle”. Also, with the first piloted Earth orbital mission of the PTK NP set for 2024 and its first manned lunar mission in 2030, it is not clear what it will be used for after Russia withdraws from the ISS.

The panel also criticizes plans for a new Energiya class heavy-lift launch vehicle to send cosmonauts and hardware to the Moon. It is not cost effective because it will fly twice a year at best. For lunar and deep space missions the panel recommends to use the Angara-A5 with a cryogenic upper stage as well as nuclear engine technology.

Izvestiya quotes a source within Roscosmos as saying that the panel’s recommendations may lead to significant changes in the proposed lunar program.

Izvestiya article :
http://izvestia.ru/news/582038

RIA-Novosti report :
http://ria.ru/space/20150127/1044545868.html

ITAR-TASS report :
http://itar-tass.com/kosmos/1724947

Aleksandr Krylov, the director of the Skolkovo Space Communications Center (either a member of the panel or someone who reported to the panel, not entirely clear from the reports),  even called for a “moratorium on piloted programs” after Russia ends its participation in the ISS :

ITAR-TASS report
 http://itar-tass.com/kosmos/1725341

Elsewhere Krylov said this week that Russia should primarily focus on military space projects :

RIA Novosti report :
http://ria.ru/defense_safety/20150127/1044557282.html

[Danderman]

A reality based report!

Roskosmos finds itself in the space position as NASA concerning post-ISS activities - plans for an HLV require high cost, low frequency missions that don't make sense.

Economic pressures will quickly dispense with the fantasy lunar and Mars program that was considered, and so the real question is when and if Russia leaves ISS, how quickly will their manned program die?

On top of all of this, SpaceX is threatening to make all of this irrelevant.

[fregate]

A reality based report!

Roskosmos finds itself in the space position as NASA concerning post-ISS activities - plans for an HLV require high cost, low frequency missions that don't make sense.

Economic pressures will quickly dispense with the fantasy lunar and Mars program that was considered, and so the real question is when and if Russia leaves ISS, how quickly will their manned program die?

On top of all of this, SpaceX is threatening to make all of this irrelevant.

Doom and gloom scenario! I do not think so - Russian Rocket and Space Industry survived MUCH more tough times in wild 90s. IMHO nobody in their sane mind would kill a proverbial geese that brings golden eggs      

[Danderman]

The first Bush administration and then the Clinton administration provided financial support for aspects of the former Soviet aerospace industry immediately after the collapse of the USSR. There is no analogous external financial support on the horizon for Russian aerospace, after NASA financial transfers end with the end of ISS.

The difference between now and then is basically that in the 1990s, Russian aerospace had to endure bad times while awaiting better times, whereas now there are no better times in sight.

[woods170]

A reality based report!

Roskosmos finds itself in the space position as NASA concerning post-ISS activities - plans for an HLV require high cost, low frequency missions that don't make sense.

Economic pressures will quickly dispense with the fantasy lunar and Mars program that was considered, and so the real question is when and if Russia leaves ISS, how quickly will their manned program die?

On top of all of this, SpaceX is threatening to make all of this irrelevant.

The only possible destination for manned Russian space in the post-ISS period would be a national Russian space station. This is under development (OPSEK), but it remains to be seen if OPSEK will ever actually fly.

[Danderman]

What makes sense would be to modernize Soyuz by replacing the current cable bundles with optical fiber, and getting rid of as many 1980s vintage electronics boxes as possible.

I suspect that probably a ton of mass could be eliminated in that manner, and the pressurized section in front of the PAO could be eliminated.

A truly modernized Soyuz would probably have a lot more usable volume in the capsule, and maybe an extended orbital module that could carry more cargo.

[fregate]

What makes sense would be to modernize Soyuz by replacing the current cable bundles with optical fiber, and getting rid of as many 1980s vintage electronics boxes as possible.

I suspect that probably a ton of mass could be eliminated in that manner, and the pressurized section in front of the PAO could be eliminated.

A truly modernized Soyuz would probably have a lot more usable volume in the capsule, and maybe an extended orbital module that could carry more cargo.

Kurs NA RDU already under testing. Regarding manned spacecraft, if Russian manned program would not be cancelled in the nearest future, ROSCOSMOS Corporation must choose one of the following:
- Lunar Modification of Soyuz-L;
- Light (LEO) and Heavy (Moon and further) configurations of PTK NP
- Re-birth of Klipper winged/lifting body spacecraft - "symmetrical" answer to X-37C/IXL challenge.   

[Prober]

The first Bush administration and then the Clinton administration provided financial support for aspects of the former Soviet aerospace industry immediately after the collapse of the USSR. There is no analogous external financial support on the horizon for Russian aerospace, after NASA financial transfers end with the end of ISS.

The only possible is the yet to be announced China Russia space station (believe it will happen).  But timing is everything.

[Lars-J]

What makes sense would be to modernize Soyuz by replacing the current cable bundles with optical fiber, and getting rid of as many 1980s vintage electronics boxes as possible.

I suspect that probably a ton of mass could be eliminated in that manner, and the pressurized section in front of the PAO could be eliminated.

A truly modernized Soyuz would probably have a lot more usable volume in the capsule, and maybe an extended orbital module that could carry more cargo.

Kurs NA RDU already under testing. Regarding manned spacecraft, if Russian manned program would not be cancelled in the nearest future, ROSCOSMOS Corporation must choose one of the following:
- Lunar Modification of Soyuz-L;
- Light (LEO) and Heavy (Moon and further) configurations of PTK NP
- Re-birth of Klipper winged/lifting body spacecraft - "symmetrical" answer to X-37C/IXL challenge.

I predict that PTK NP will survive, but delayed, and in a lighter form. More Dragon-esque, perhaps. They'll want to hedge their bets if Dragon, CST-100, or Orion is really successful. Soyuz upgrades can only go so far.

[Patchouli]

]Kurs NA RDU already under testing. Regarding manned spacecraft, if Russian manned program would not be cancelled in the nearest future, ROSCOSMOS Corporation must choose one of the following:
- Lunar Modification of Soyuz-L;
- Light (LEO) and Heavy (Moon and further) configurations of PTK NP
- Re-birth of Klipper winged/lifting body spacecraft - "symmetrical" answer to X-37C/IXL challenge.   

I always thought it was strange that they cancelled Kliper and then started over with PPTS as going with a new vehicle seems like it would be more expensive then finishing an existing project.
I wonder if Orion had a big influence on the decision.

An interesting video I found on the PTK-NP.
It does seem like a massive upgrade from Soyuz of course it landing on the moon is totally unrealistic.


OT but I think it might give some insight into how things might be packaged in Dragon V2 when it's finished.

[fregate]

]Kurs NA RDU already under testing. Regarding manned spacecraft, if Russian manned program would not be cancelled in the nearest future, ROSCOSMOS Corporation must choose one of the following:
- Lunar Modification of Soyuz-L;
- Light (LEO) and Heavy (Moon and further) configurations of PTK NP
- Re-birth of Klipper winged/lifting body spacecraft - "symmetrical" answer to X-37C/IXL challenge.   

I always thought it was strange that they cancelled Kliper and then started over with PPTS as going with a new vehicle seems like it would be more expensive then finishing an existing project.
I wonder if Orion had a big influence on the decision.

An interesting video I found on the PTK-NP.
It does seem like a massive upgrade from Soyuz of course it landing on the moon is totally unrealistic.


OT but I think it might give some insight into how things might be packaged in Dragon V2 when it's finished.

Please ignore Soyuz LV - it's a diploma work for INTERIOR DESIGN and guy unfortunately does not understand difference in LEO payload capability between Soyuz and prospective manned LV (whatever it will be)

[Dalhousie]

Impressive interior

[fregate]

Impressive interior

Wait until MAKS-2015 Airshow in August - most likely that RKK ENERGIA might present fully furnished VA (Descent Module)