Dragon 2 on display at Newseum in DC on Wed June 11, 2014

[meekGee]

2) The reason the Dragon looks like a mockup is because the whole thing is covered in SPAM -- SPacex Ablator Material.  (Except for the heat shield which, of course, uses PICA-X.)  They coat the outer panels with the stuff, shape it, and form it, and then stick the panels on the spacecraft.  This protects the outer skin of the spacecraft from re-entry heating.  The SPAM is what makes it look fake; it has the texture and glossiness of a flimsy mockup molded out of styrofoam or plastic, but it is in fact quite solid.

I also touched the skin when the guards were not looking...

...  and?   was it "soft" like thick paint, or "brittle" like a ceramic?   Did it feel cold to the touch?  Metallic?  Glassy?

I had ample hands on time in Hawthorne. The surface was very firm to the touch and felt quite solid. No give at all, not flimsy or hollow, not cold like metal. When tapped, it felt and sounded like thick fiberglass, like on the bottom of a substantial boat. The skin is made of close fitting panels and the seams between the panels and holes for fasteners are filled with a fairly rigid putty that has slightly more give than the panels themselves. This same putty also fills in space between the panels and the edges of the small Draco thrusters, so I suspect it is highly thermal resistant.

Interesting.  I wonder if they can re-apply more SPAM when some areas become too thin.  Prime the outer layer, and paint it back to its original thickness.

Not likely just a spray on revive.  The tech said the SPAM was manufactured (either cast or laid up like fiberglass, I forget) and then machined to final spec.  I didn't think to ask how it was attached to the shell.  I did ask about reusability and there was no mention about rejuvenating any TPS.

Since the SPAM coat is smooth, it is not pre-made as panels.  It is applied somehow.
They can either control the thickness with selective application, or over-apply and then put the entire capsule in a fast 5 axis mill that only kisses the outer surface to bring it to dimension.
Either way doesn't rule out re-application of the SPAM coat if it gets ablated.  It's mostly a function of whether a used surface can be primed (mechanically or chemically) to accept new coats.

I specifically asked the question to the tech who built the capsule.  He said the SPAM was manufactured, machined to spec and then applied to the capsule.  Of course, I may have misremembered this point.

ah, I misunderstood your description the first time.  It just looked too "continuous" to me...  but maybe it is puttied together like drywall.

[docmordrid]

Post #92 by Lastof7 shows a seam and its screws.

[Prober]

2) The reason the Dragon looks like a mockup is because the whole thing is covered in SPAM -- SPacex Ablator Material.  (Except for the heat shield which, of course, uses PICA-X.)  They coat the outer panels with the stuff, shape it, and form it, and then stick the panels on the spacecraft.  This protects the outer skin of the spacecraft from re-entry heating.  The SPAM is what makes it look fake; it has the texture and glossiness of a flimsy mockup molded out of styrofoam or plastic, but it is in fact quite solid.

I also touched the skin when the guards were not looking...

...  and?   was it "soft" like thick paint, or "brittle" like a ceramic?   Did it feel cold to the touch?  Metallic?  Glassy?

I had ample hands on time in Hawthorne. The surface was very firm to the touch and felt quite solid. No give at all, not flimsy or hollow, not cold like metal. When tapped, it felt and sounded like thick fiberglass, like on the bottom of a substantial boat. The skin is made of close fitting panels and the seams between the panels and holes for fasteners are filled with a fairly rigid putty that has slightly more give than the panels themselves. This same putty also fills in space between the panels and the edges of the small Draco thrusters, so I suspect it is highly thermal resistant.

Interesting.  I wonder if they can re-apply more SPAM when some areas become too thin.  Prime the outer layer, and paint it back to its original thickness.

Not likely just a spray on revive.  The tech said the SPAM was manufactured (either cast or laid up like fiberglass, I forget) and then machined to final spec.  I didn't think to ask how it was attached to the shell.  I did ask about reusability and there was no mention about rejuvenating any TPS.

Since the SPAM coat is smooth, it is not pre-made as panels.  It is applied somehow.
They can either control the thickness with selective application, or over-apply and then put the entire capsule in a fast 5 axis mill that only kisses the outer surface to bring it to dimension.
Either way doesn't rule out re-application of the SPAM coat if it gets ablated.  It's mostly a function of whether a used surface can be primed (mechanically or chemically) to accept new coats.

I specifically asked the question to the tech who built the capsule.  He said the SPAM was manufactured, machined to spec and then applied to the capsule.  Of course, I may have misremembered this point.

ah, I misunderstood your description the first time.  It just looked too "continuous" to me...  but maybe it is puttied together like drywall.

could be applied like one of several methods used in a 3D printer that "could" make it "continuous".

[Lars_J]

Two views of the inside of the hatch. I notice that there doesn't appear to be a latch on the inside surface. Does this mean that the hatch can only be opened from the outside?

It means that this is not the final hatch design.

For the record, the SpaceXer said that all the important mechanisms (seats, screens, doors, thrusters) were in "practically finished form" or something to that effect, and only the "boring" bits like insulation were left out.

The hatch is not "boring".

If we don't see a latch on the inside, it is because... we don't see it.  Or don't recognize it.  Or it is removable.  But this is the hatch, and it's interesting to see how much lighter it seems.  Especially so since the SpaceXer alluded to using it in space for EVAs, which means it should seal itself with no help from the outside, and with extremely good reliability.  (This includes swinging it down from the inside)

You can try to explain it away any way you like, but you are missing the most obvious answer. And you should know it. Occams razor, meekGee!

The only final thing about the hatch is the shape if it.

[oiorionsbelt]

The only final thing about the hatch is the shape if it.

Source please.

[Llian Rhydderch]

The only final thing about the hatch is the shape if it.

Source please.

Exactly!

You know, these threads are better when all of us make it clear we are speculating and write in somewhat less absolutist language. 

A little bit of humility "I think ..." or "It seems to me..." and here are my arguments why "..." go a long way to reducing the hubris that can make these threads get a bit tiresome at times. 

[Paul_G]

So...........

'It seems to me' that the only final thing about the hatch is the shape if it,

and here are my arguments why:

the fact that that is the shape of the hole in the pressure vessel, unless of course they bring out the tin snips and apply some artistic licence, or make a completely new pressure vessel.

[abaddon]

So...........

'It seems to me' that the only final thing about the hatch is the shape if it,

and here are my arguments why:

the fact that that is the shape of the hole in the pressure vessel, unless of course they bring out the tin snips and apply some artistic licence, or make a completely new pressure vessel.

That is a good argument for why the shape of that hatch is the final shape.

It is not an argument (good or bad) for why it is the only final thing about the hatch.

[woods170]

Two views of the inside of the hatch. I notice that there doesn't appear to be a latch on the inside surface. Does this mean that the hatch can only be opened from the outside?

It means that this is not the final hatch design.

For the record, the SpaceXer said that all the important mechanisms (seats, screens, doors, thrusters) were in "practically finished form" or something to that effect, and only the "boring" bits like insulation were left out.

The hatch is not "boring".

If we don't see a latch on the inside, it is because... we don't see it.  Or don't recognize it.  Or it is removable.  But this is the hatch, and it's interesting to see how much lighter it seems.  Especially so since the SpaceXer alluded to using it in space for EVAs, which means it should seal itself with no help from the outside, and with extremely good reliability.  (This includes swinging it down from the inside)

You can try to explain it away any way you like, but you are missing the most obvious answer. And you should know it. Occams razor, meekGee!

The only final thing about the hatch is the shape if it.

Ah, I see this utterly pointless discussion is up again. Tell me, exactly what letter of the word 'mostly' is it that you good folks do not understand? Elon himself said, at the V2 presentation event at Hawthorne, that what people saw was "mostly" flight hardware.
This indicates that some stuff is not flight hardware. The hatch of the V2, as we have seen it thus far, might just fall under the "not flight hardware" indicator. But, since we do not know this for sure neither the "this is flight hardware"-proponents nor the "this is not flight hardware"-proponents can't be sure of what they are stating.

[411rocket]

Since the SPAM coat is smooth, it is not pre-made as panels.  It is applied somehow.
They can either control the thickness with selective application, or over-apply and then put the entire capsule in a fast 5 axis mill that only kisses the outer surface to bring it to dimension.
Either way doesn't rule out re-application of the SPAM coat if it gets ablated.  It's mostly a function of whether a used surface can be primed (mechanically or chemically) to accept new coats.

I specifically asked the question to the tech who built the capsule.  He said the SPAM was manufactured, machined to spec and then applied to the capsule.  Of course, I may have misremembered this point.
[/quote]

A first for me to see, SPAM on a can, than the usual spam in a can, or spam E-mail.

Regardless of that, I want to see it in flight (hopefully sooner, than later).

[sublimemarsupial]

Since the SPAM coat is smooth, it is not pre-made as panels.  It is applied somehow.
They can either control the thickness with selective application, or over-apply and then put the entire capsule in a fast 5 axis mill that only kisses the outer surface to bring it to dimension.
Either way doesn't rule out re-application of the SPAM coat if it gets ablated.  It's mostly a function of whether a used surface can be primed (mechanically or chemically) to accept new coats.

I specifically asked the question to the tech who built the capsule.  He said the SPAM was manufactured, machined to spec and then applied to the capsule.  Of course, I may have misremembered this point.

A first for me to see, SPAM on a can, than the usual spam in a can, or spam E-mail.

Regardless of that, I want to see it in flight (hopefully sooner, than later).
[/quote]

You have, it's flown on every Dragon to date.

[Lars_J]

The only final thing about the hatch is the shape if it.

Source please.

Fundamental common sense. If there is no way to open the hatch from the inside, you can take it to the bank that it is not the final hatch. Is it really that hard to grasp?

And no, I don't have any inside SpaceX knowledge. I'm just calling it as I see it. Most of you seem be misinterpreting the "mostly flight hardware" to mean that everything is flight hardware. I feel like I'm the kid in story of "the emperors new clothes".  Am I really the only one seeing it?

[cscott]

And no, I don't have any inside SpaceX knowledge. I'm just calling it as I see it. [...] Am I really the only one seeing it?

You seem to be the only one claiming definitive knowledge of which pieces of the displayed dragon can't fly.  Everyone else seems to be taking the reasonable wait-and-see approach.

[Lars_J]

And no, I don't have any inside SpaceX knowledge. I'm just calling it as I see it. [...] Am I really the only one seeing it?

You seem to be the only one claiming definitive knowledge of which pieces of the displayed dragon can't fly.  Everyone else seems to be taking the reasonable wait-and-see approach.

I'm claiming no definite knowledge. Just two working eye-balls. Saying that it "is flight hardware" is the reasonable wait-and-see approach? Whatever. I'm happy to revisit this topic when Dragon v2 has its first crewed flight.

[RocketGoBoom]

It seems pretty clear that the unit on display is the same as the one that was unveiled at Hawthorne. Why would they fabricate two show units?

Anyone get the VIN ?

( but as was stated, what's on display is not a show unit )

#001

Are they doing a Signature Series of 1,000 Dragons, then they roll into regular production? Just like Tesla?

For the Signature Series there is a special paint color (Signature Red) available that won't be available for owners during regular production. I could see Elon doing that with SpaceX with a kick ass paint job.

[411rocket]

You have, it's flown on every Dragon to date.

Ok, I thought it was just white paint, on the sides of the cargo Dragons. So much for thinking, the SPAM was new to the Dragon.

[hrissan]

And no, I don't have any inside SpaceX knowledge. I'm just calling it as I see it. [...] Am I really the only one seeing it?

You seem to be the only one claiming definitive knowledge of which pieces of the displayed dragon can't fly.  Everyone else seems to be taking the reasonable wait-and-see approach.

I'm claiming no definite knowledge. Just two working eye-balls. Saying that it "is flight hardware" is the reasonable wait-and-see approach? Whatever. I'm happy to revisit this topic when Dragon v2 has its first crewed flight.

Opening from inside may be required in emergency only, considered off-nominal. If everything goes ok you just wait to be opened from outside.

Otherwise press the button on the inside of the hatch and it blows out. IIRC Elon mentioned blowing hatch out in one of the recent clips...

[Blackstar]

Has anybody posted online photos they took from inside the spacecraft?

[meekGee]

The only final thing about the hatch is the shape if it.

Source please.

Fundamental common sense. If there is no way to open the hatch from the inside, you can take it to the bank that it is not the final hatch. Is it really that hard to grasp?

And no, I don't have any inside SpaceX knowledge. I'm just calling it as I see it. Most of you seem be misinterpreting the "mostly flight hardware" to mean that everything is flight hardware. I feel like I'm the kid in story of "the emperors new clothes".  Am I really the only one seeing it?

Lars - you don't know that it doesn't have a way to open from the inside.
You know that one observer didn't see an obvious latch handle.

A lot simpler explanation is that the inner latch was simply not obviously visible.  Maybe there's a shaft, but the handle is not installed.  Maybe the handle IS the linkage mechanism that you see.  Who knows.

The argument was, whether the mechanisms we saw were "just mockups" or not.  It is very clear now that even if there are some parts that will be revised, what we saw is "it".

Why such derision towards people that take SpaceX's word at face value?  That other than the "boring bits", the vehicle is pretty much done and ready for testing?

 

[mlindner]

And no, I don't have any inside SpaceX knowledge. I'm just calling it as I see it. [...] Am I really the only one seeing it?

You seem to be the only one claiming definitive knowledge of which pieces of the displayed dragon can't fly.  Everyone else seems to be taking the reasonable wait-and-see approach.

I'm claiming no definite knowledge. Just two working eye-balls. Saying that it "is flight hardware" is the reasonable wait-and-see approach? Whatever. I'm happy to revisit this topic when Dragon v2 has its first crewed flight.

I'm jumping on the band wagon on Lars_J's side. There are too many elements of the hatch that seem off for it to be final. My engineering BS meter says its pretty clearly not final. Notably, I don't see the car door handle staying.