Author Topic: Dragon 2 on display at Newseum in DC on Wed June 11, 2014  (Read 81820 times)

Offline QuantumG

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9266
  • Australia
  • Liked: 4489
  • Likes Given: 1126
Re: Dragon 2 on display at Newseum in DC on Wed June 11, 2014
« Reply #100 on: 06/12/2014 03:54 am »
Elon loves the attention.
Human spaceflight is basically just LARPing now.

Offline Helodriver

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1082
  • Liked: 5992
  • Likes Given: 705
Re: Dragon 2 on display at Newseum in DC on Wed June 11, 2014
« Reply #101 on: 06/12/2014 04:42 am »
2) The reason the Dragon looks like a mockup is because the whole thing is covered in SPAM -- SPacex Ablator Material.  (Except for the heat shield which, of course, uses PICA-X.)  They coat the outer panels with the stuff, shape it, and form it, and then stick the panels on the spacecraft.  This protects the outer skin of the spacecraft from re-entry heating.  The SPAM is what makes it look fake; it has the texture and glossiness of a flimsy mockup molded out of styrofoam or plastic, but it is in fact quite solid.

I also touched the skin when the guards were not looking...

...  and?   was it "soft" like thick paint, or "brittle" like a ceramic?   Did it feel cold to the touch?  Metallic?  Glassy?

I had ample hands on time in Hawthorne. The surface was very firm to the touch and felt quite solid. No give at all, not flimsy or hollow, not cold like metal. When tapped, it felt and sounded like thick fiberglass, like on the bottom of a substantial boat. The skin is made of close fitting panels and the seams between the panels and holes for fasteners are filled with a fairly rigid putty that has slightly more give than the panels themselves. This same putty also fills in space between the panels and the edges of the small Draco thrusters, so I suspect it is highly thermal resistant.

Offline Sesquipedalian

  • Whee!
  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 729
  • Liked: 302
  • Likes Given: 990
Re: Dragon 2 on display at Newseum in DC on Wed June 11, 2014
« Reply #102 on: 06/12/2014 04:44 am »
I spoke not to an engineer, but to a guy who built the capsule.

That's actually the guy I meant.  What would be a better term... technician?

Quote
First is one of two trunk attachment points.  Covered by some phelonic substance.

That's the raised circle I mentioned earlier.  Apparently it doubles as an attachment point as well as a heat transfer point.

I also touched the skin when the guards were not looking...

Me too... and then I was surprised when one of the guards actually told me to touch it while she was taking a picture for me.  I couldn't turn her down. :D

...  and?   was it "soft" like thick paint, or "brittle" like a ceramic?   Did it feel cold to the touch?  Metallic?  Glassy?

None of the above, exactly.  As I mentioned earlier, it had the texture and glossiness of a fake mockup.  It felt solid, and cool compared to the warm air, so probably room temperature in a sealed environment.  I knocked on it and it was more elastic than solid metal but less elastic than a construction cone.

The best comparison I can think of would be a plaster sculpture.

Offline meekGee

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 14680
  • N. California
  • Liked: 14692
  • Likes Given: 1421
Re: Dragon 2 on display at Newseum in DC on Wed June 11, 2014
« Reply #103 on: 06/12/2014 05:36 am »
2) The reason the Dragon looks like a mockup is because the whole thing is covered in SPAM -- SPacex Ablator Material.  (Except for the heat shield which, of course, uses PICA-X.)  They coat the outer panels with the stuff, shape it, and form it, and then stick the panels on the spacecraft.  This protects the outer skin of the spacecraft from re-entry heating.  The SPAM is what makes it look fake; it has the texture and glossiness of a flimsy mockup molded out of styrofoam or plastic, but it is in fact quite solid.

I also touched the skin when the guards were not looking...

...  and?   was it "soft" like thick paint, or "brittle" like a ceramic?   Did it feel cold to the touch?  Metallic?  Glassy?

I had ample hands on time in Hawthorne. The surface was very firm to the touch and felt quite solid. No give at all, not flimsy or hollow, not cold like metal. When tapped, it felt and sounded like thick fiberglass, like on the bottom of a substantial boat. The skin is made of close fitting panels and the seams between the panels and holes for fasteners are filled with a fairly rigid putty that has slightly more give than the panels themselves. This same putty also fills in space between the panels and the edges of the small Draco thrusters, so I suspect it is highly thermal resistant.

Interesting.  I wonder if they can re-apply more SPAM when some areas become too thin.  Prime the outer layer, and paint it back to its original thickness.
ABCD - Always Be Counting Down

Offline CuddlyRocket

Also, while I was shooting pictures, someone else asked what number this was and was told SpaceX doesn't number them, but that individual missions are numbered. Take that with as much salt as you want; there's got to be some sort of internal inventory number for maintenance/tracking/safety/etc.
They could be thinking of giving them names rather than numbers. If I was SpaceX I'd run a public competition; lots of good PR, especially if they reserve one or more for schoolchildren and have some suitable exciting prize.

Offline Shredder56

  • Member
  • Posts: 10
  • Virginia
  • Liked: 2
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: Dragon 2 on display at Newseum in DC on Wed June 11, 2014
« Reply #105 on: 06/12/2014 09:51 am »
2) The reason the Dragon looks like a mockup is because the whole thing is covered in SPAM -- SPacex Ablator Material.  (Except for the heat shield which, of course, uses PICA-X.)  They coat the outer panels with the stuff, shape it, and form it, and then stick the panels on the spacecraft.  This protects the outer skin of the spacecraft from re-entry heating.  The SPAM is what makes it look fake; it has the texture and glossiness of a flimsy mockup molded out of styrofoam or plastic, but it is in fact quite solid.

I also touched the skin when the guards were not looking...

...  and?   was it "soft" like thick paint, or "brittle" like a ceramic?   Did it feel cold to the touch?  Metallic?  Glassy?

I had ample hands on time in Hawthorne. The surface was very firm to the touch and felt quite solid. No give at all, not flimsy or hollow, not cold like metal. When tapped, it felt and sounded like thick fiberglass, like on the bottom of a substantial boat. The skin is made of close fitting panels and the seams between the panels and holes for fasteners are filled with a fairly rigid putty that has slightly more give than the panels themselves. This same putty also fills in space between the panels and the edges of the small Draco thrusters, so I suspect it is highly thermal resistant.

Interesting.  I wonder if they can re-apply more SPAM when some areas become too thin.  Prime the outer layer, and paint it back to its original thickness.
Not likely just a spray on revive.  The tech said the SPAM was manufactured (either cast or laid up like fiberglass, I forget) and then machined to final spec.  I didn't think to ask how it was attached to the shell.  I did ask about reusability and there was no mention about rejuvenating any TPS.

Offline J-V

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 102
  • Liked: 31
  • Likes Given: 38
Re: Dragon 2 on display at Newseum in DC on Wed June 11, 2014
« Reply #106 on: 06/12/2014 10:01 am »
I wonder how they manage to do it completely watertight. I could imagine very small amounts of water between the SPAM and the hull to cause problems when the spacecraft is in vacuum and having high temperature variations. Probably not a safety problem, but could cause some extra maintenance.

Offline garidan

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 103
  • Italy
  • Liked: 19
  • Likes Given: 21
Re: Dragon 2 on display at Newseum in DC on Wed June 11, 2014
« Reply #107 on: 06/12/2014 12:14 pm »
I wonder how they manage to do it completely watertight. I could imagine very small amounts of water between the SPAM and the hull to cause problems when the spacecraft is in vacuum and having high temperature variations. Probably not a safety problem, but could cause some extra maintenance.

That's because it will land on ... land, not water  ;D

Offline woods170

  • IRAS fan
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12196
  • IRAS fan
  • The Netherlands
  • Liked: 18496
  • Likes Given: 12573
Re: Dragon 2 on display at Newseum in DC on Wed June 11, 2014
« Reply #108 on: 06/12/2014 12:36 pm »
Interesting location of connection points for lifting.
Not at all. Those connection points for lifting are located at the top of the pressure hull. The pressure hull is the structural spaceframe. Everything else is attached to it.

Offline CraigLieb

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1200
  • Dallas Fort Worth
  • Liked: 1358
  • Likes Given: 2444
Re: Dragon 2 on display at Newseum in DC on Wed June 11, 2014
« Reply #109 on: 06/12/2014 01:23 pm »
Also, while I was shooting pictures, someone else asked what number this was and was told SpaceX doesn't number them, but that individual missions are numbered. Take that with as much salt as you want; there's got to be some sort of internal inventory number for maintenance/tracking/safety/etc.
They could be thinking of giving them names rather than numbers. If I was SpaceX I'd run a public competition; lots of good PR, especially if they reserve one or more for schoolchildren and have some suitable exciting prize.

I vote for Dragon V2 Trampoline (maybe just this particular Spacecraft - said with appropriate German accent)
« Last Edit: 06/12/2014 01:24 pm by CraigLieb »
On the ground floor of the National Space Foundation... Colonize Mars!

Offline Jdeshetler

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 822
  • Silicon Valley, CA
  • Liked: 3716
  • Likes Given: 3633
Re: Dragon 2 on display at Newseum in DC on Wed June 11, 2014
« Reply #110 on: 06/12/2014 01:43 pm »
Interesting location of connection points for lifting.
Not at all. Those connection points for lifting are located at the top of the pressure hull. The pressure hull is the structural spaceframe. Everything else is attached to it.

Yes, but I am referring to the angle of support cables which is at almost 45 degree (based on photo).

Offline woods170

  • IRAS fan
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12196
  • IRAS fan
  • The Netherlands
  • Liked: 18496
  • Likes Given: 12573
Re: Dragon 2 on display at Newseum in DC on Wed June 11, 2014
« Reply #111 on: 06/12/2014 03:08 pm »
Interesting location of connection points for lifting.
Not at all. Those connection points for lifting are located at the top of the pressure hull. The pressure hull is the structural spaceframe. Everything else is attached to it.

Yes, but I am referring to the angle of support cables which is at almost 45 degree (based on photo).
Again, nothing interesting about this. I've seen very similar hoisting set-ups on numerous odd-shaped objects at my brother's company. There is nothing unusual about the support cables being at an approximate 45 degree angle.

Offline aero

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3629
  • 92129
  • Liked: 1146
  • Likes Given: 360
Re: Dragon 2 on display at Newseum in DC on Wed June 11, 2014
« Reply #112 on: 06/12/2014 03:40 pm »
Did anyone look at the Super Draco engines closely enough to estimate the nozzle diameter?
Retired, working interesting problems

Offline sheltonjr

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 148
  • Liked: 63
  • Likes Given: 37
Re: Dragon 2 on display at Newseum in DC on Wed June 11, 2014
« Reply #113 on: 06/12/2014 03:47 pm »
Those close up images of the Super Draco nozzles do NOT look 3D printed to me. They definitely have a weave design to them.

Just to be clear. I still believe that the core of the engine is 3D printed, but it does not look like the nozzles are.

Offline sghill

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1685
  • United States
  • Liked: 2095
  • Likes Given: 3214
Re: Dragon 2 on display at Newseum in DC on Wed June 11, 2014
« Reply #114 on: 06/12/2014 04:07 pm »
Those close up images of the Super Draco nozzles do NOT look 3D printed to me. They definitely have a weave design to them.

Just to be clear. I still believe that the core of the engine is 3D printed, but it does not look like the nozzles are.

Here's a VERY close up-skirt photo my dad took yesterday of the exhaust ports.  Make your own conclusions.  Lot's of herringbone texture.
Bring the thunder!

Offline vtirag

  • Member
  • Posts: 18
  • Liked: 7
  • Likes Given: 62
Re: Dragon 2 on display at Newseum in DC on Wed June 11, 2014
« Reply #115 on: 06/12/2014 05:05 pm »
Those close up images of the Super Draco nozzles do NOT look 3D printed to me. They definitely have a weave design to them.

Just to be clear. I still believe that the core of the engine is 3D printed, but it does not look like the nozzles are.

Here's a VERY close up-skirt photo my dad took yesterday of the exhaust ports.  Make your own conclusions.  Lot's of herringbone texture.

I took this picture yesterday as well (pushed levels in Photoshop to show some more detail). The structured material did not look metallic at all to me (I was too chicken to try to touch it…). The part behind it is definitely metal, shaped like an SD chamber. The shiny part in the back seemed like a different metal, possibly the shiny protective nacelle showing through an opening (as it was mentioned earlier in this thread by moralec and Sesquipedalian, the SDs are not completely installed, missing injectors for example).
My guess for the throat diameter of the metallic part is about 4" (really rough estimate…).
Take all this with an appropriately sized grain of salt, as it is only my perception after seeing it up close.  :)
« Last Edit: 06/12/2014 05:10 pm by vtirag »

Offline Lobo

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6915
  • Spokane, WA
  • Liked: 672
  • Likes Given: 438
Re: Dragon 2 on display at Newseum in DC on Wed June 11, 2014
« Reply #116 on: 06/12/2014 05:36 pm »
I wonder how they manage to do it completely watertight. I could imagine very small amounts of water between the SPAM and the hull to cause problems when the spacecraft is in vacuum and having high temperature variations. Probably not a safety problem, but could cause some extra maintenance.

That's because it will land on ... land, not water  ;D

And if it does land in water, it will be due to an emergency landing, and then likely assumed the capsule wouldn't fly again, or it would after a thorough refub and recert.  So they can make sure the salt water's out of all the gaps and such.

Offline Jdeshetler

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 822
  • Silicon Valley, CA
  • Liked: 3716
  • Likes Given: 3633
Re: Dragon 2 on display at Newseum in DC on Wed June 11, 2014
« Reply #117 on: 06/12/2014 06:36 pm »
Everything has been so well covered here at NSF that there is not a lot I can contribute with my pictures, but here are some pics of random details and items SpaceX was giving away..    :)

Using Vtirag's cool closeup photos: Imagine that both of the stainless steel parts will turned into deep purplish, just like this stainless steel ball after exposed to the high temp.

Online Comga

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6503
  • Liked: 4624
  • Likes Given: 5359
Re: Dragon 2 on display at Newseum in DC on Wed June 11, 2014
« Reply #118 on: 06/12/2014 07:02 pm »
I noticed from the images that the landing legs differ in length from the front to the back.  Look at images 13 and 35 here: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/h0aq4cpsvno53hi/AACq63OMC3mmCY9YMctRUhGFa

The rear leg in image 13 is up on blocks compared to the front leg in image 35 (you can still see the rear leg in the background).  In normal operations, the capsule would rest at an angle towards the rear.

I'm thinking this makes sense because we already know the capsule will descend at a rearwards angle to improve water landing smoothness.  Having shorter rear legs means that all 4 legs will touch down with the same approximate force at the same time instead of the rear legs banging down harder than the front legs.

Should we rightly call this a spacecraft and not a capsule (said with a snide German accent) since it is self-powered?

The flight versions are pneumatic legs, are they not?
What do you suppose is supporting the capsule when it is on display?
Could these be fixed extension mock-ups?
What kind of wastrels would dump a perfectly good booster in the ocean after just one use?

Offline Shaledc

  • Member
  • Posts: 14
  • Washington DC
  • Liked: 8
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: Dragon 2 on display at Newseum in DC on Wed June 11, 2014
« Reply #119 on: 06/12/2014 07:08 pm »
Those close up images of the Super Draco nozzles do NOT look 3D printed to me. They definitely have a weave design to them.

Just to be clear. I still believe that the core of the engine is 3D printed, but it does not look like the nozzles are.

Here's a VERY close up-skirt photo my dad took yesterday of the exhaust ports.  Make your own conclusions.  Lot's of herringbone texture.

I took this picture yesterday as well (pushed levels in Photoshop to show some more detail). The structured material did not look metallic at all to me (I was too chicken to try to touch it…). The part behind it is definitely metal, shaped like an SD chamber. The shiny part in the back seemed like a different metal, possibly the shiny protective nacelle showing through an opening (as it was mentioned earlier in this thread by moralec and Sesquipedalian, the SDs are not completely installed, missing injectors for example).
My guess for the throat diameter of the metallic part is about 4" (really rough estimate…).
Take all this with an appropriately sized grain of salt, as it is only my perception after seeing it up close.  :)

The Draco engines were NOT installed. What we were seeing was the composite material that surrounds the nozzels, against which the nozzels are seated. My pictures don't show this very well, but you could clearly see the weave of the composite. The black ring around the "throat" of the nozzel are seemed like it could possibly have been a carbon-carbon composite, but it was way back in there and I couldn't really tell. That would make sense though, since the throat of the nozzel is hotter -- carbon/carbon would be better suited to take that heat.

There was one shiny metal object at teh back of the nozzel, I'm guessing it's an attachment point that's behind the engine chamber.

But no, what we were seeing was definitely not the nozzels, just where they fit against.


Tags:
 

Advertisement NovaTech
Advertisement Northrop Grumman
Advertisement
Advertisement Margaritaville Beach Resort South Padre Island
Advertisement Brady Kenniston
Advertisement NextSpaceflight
Advertisement Nathan Barker Photography
0