Author Topic: Internet Access for the New Mars Colony  (Read 14382 times)

Online meekGee

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Re: Internet Access for the New Mars Colony
« Reply #40 on: 07/16/2014 06:58 am »
Once the first 100 (1,000, 10,000, more?) people settle on Mars, they will be nearly cut off from the Information Age. That will be a real downer. Of course they will have local, Mars, communication but no chatting with Earth. Text email only? Mars Google to Earth won't work very well and participating in NSF discussions will be very awkward.

What can be done to improve the situation?

Bring data on media to Mars for installation on the local Mars-net will work for archive data but how current can it be kept?

What will the Mars-net look like, how will it be kept current how will a Scientist do data searches? Will the colonists just forget about surfing the Earth Internet?

Other problems/solutions?

We are very spoiled in how we expect to get sub-second communication with every point on the globe.

Once there's civilization on Mars, it will simply not be in real-time contact with Earth - just as simple as that.

The speed of light is a harsh mistress.


Offline data (e.g. cached web) will be available, but otherwise, no chat, no Skype, no real time gaming.

As you say, Email.

And think twice before you hit "send".
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Offline GregA

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Re: Internet Access for the New Mars Colony
« Reply #41 on: 07/24/2014 10:30 pm »
While I think a large proportion of the Internet information can be replicated, there are many things which have live interaction. You can't "surf" if the next step in your browsing has a 20 minute wait - and similarly a quick search where you check multiple possibilities can't work if each possibility takes 20 minutes to check.

One method of accessing those types of websites will be working with someone on Earth. You tell them what you are looking for and they try to not just provide better results than a search engine does, but to follow the links and anticipate which ones you will find useful, and where you will go deeper into a site (or follow links), so that they can build a small cache of valuable information in a much shorter time for you. Plus you can see links that were only briefly followed and redirect them to find more on those if you like (with a 20 minute delay).

Similarly a YouTube partial sync with Earth might only have the most popular videos, and when it shows "related videos" it would only show those that are available on Mars. But when someone on Earth emails a friend on Mars saying "you gotta see this!", the Earth based email relay might extract YouTube (and ANY website) addresses sent in emails and send them to the Mars Cache so they're ready to look at when the person receives their email.

Online Robotbeat

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Re: Internet Access for the New Mars Colony
« Reply #42 on: 07/25/2014 01:02 am »
You don't search the whole web when you do a google search, you're sending a request to the nearest Google data center which sends back the result. For a million person colony, Google would just have a few servers at Mars.
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Offline ThereIWas3

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Re: Internet Access for the New Mars Colony
« Reply #43 on: 07/25/2014 01:48 am »
I think the larger data flow will be Mars to Earth.   The people on Mars are going to be very busy and excited about discoveries and building to spend much time web surfing.   They will need access to reference material, like medical, chemical, etc.   And music and literature for entertainment - more static stuff they could have taken along in bulk.

People who feel a need to keep up with their Facebook friends would not have signed up for the trip in the first place.
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Offline pogo661

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Re: Internet Access for the New Mars Colony
« Reply #44 on: 07/25/2014 02:27 am »

One method of accessing those types of websites will be working with someone on Earth. You tell them what you are looking for and they try to not just provide better results than a search engine does, but to follow the links and anticipate which ones you will find useful, and where you will go deeper into a site (or follow links), so that they can build a small cache of valuable information in a much shorter time for you.


Google recently hired Ray Kurzweil and tasked him with developing an AI search engine that does what you'd described.  Interestingly,  Ray is also famous for looking at technology progression trends and predicting when technologies will be mature enough to make a given target goal available for a target price.  If anyone could predict when different fields of research could be conducted independently on Mars with limited communication from earth including the shipping of all necessary lab equipment or fabrication in place, it would by Ray.

Offline KelvinZero

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Re: Internet Access for the New Mars Colony
« Reply #45 on: 07/25/2014 03:39 am »
One method of accessing those types of websites will be working with someone on Earth. You tell them what you are looking for and they try to not just provide better results than a search engine does, but to follow the links and anticipate which ones you will find useful, and where you will go deeper into a site (or follow links), so that they can build a small cache of valuable information in a much shorter time for you.
Thats why I mentioned web archiving above. Think of Martians as web historians looking 40 minutes into the past.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_archiving
On top of the biggies like google etc, I think this would let you get a look at 99% of what is available and perhaps more importantly you could feel you were not just looking at what a discrete group of organizations were packaging for you.

If the existing data sets were not suitable perhaps there could be a bit of software you could get a hundred thousand volunteers  to run, like the SETI screensaver app.

Offline GregA

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Re: Internet Access for the New Mars Colony
« Reply #46 on: 07/25/2014 04:49 am »
You don't search the whole web when you do a google search, you're sending a request to the nearest Google data center which sends back the result. For a million person colony, Google would just have a few servers at Mars.
Yes but that has limits. Search Google, get a list of results, now click through to read those results - wait for the website to be sent or use the Google Cache. Open those websites and realise some are crap. Some are good. Some have interesting links to better information - click through and wait for the link to be sent.

What you want is a broader search that better identifies what you're after and feeds that information to you to avoid long waits. But you don't want it to try to send you all possible avenues you'll look at, because some are a waste of valuable bandwidth.

Pogo's comment about Google makes sense. On a simpler level perhaps Google can offer its cached content in a more browse-able form so you can stay in the cache and have a good experience.

Offline alexterrell

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Re: Internet Access for the New Mars Colony
« Reply #47 on: 08/05/2014 02:58 pm »
I think you have a custom made "Mars web". This is limited to perhaps 100 - 1000 TB (maybe by 2050 that will seem ridiculously small - if it were today, I'd expect 100TB). There is a copy of this on Earth and a copy on Mars, and a laser comms system keep these synchronised. You'd want something like 1GB/s. What can a laser achieve over those distances? I assume you have orbital lasers with about 10KW of transmission power and decent telescopes to read them at each end.

The Mars Web (mww) contains:
1. Data put there by Mars crew, which can be accessed by Earth researchers. This would also include the base blueprints etc - and given appropriate levels of security. This section can be accessed from the www, again given read/write permissions.
2. A selection of the www - useful sites like nasaspaceflight.com and Wikipedia.
3. An index of the www.

If you run a search on the MWW, you get a list of results available on the MWW, available for immediate download. You also get a list of results from the index. Click on one of those, and you get your page in a new tab in 30 minutes or so. You might have options like: Download low resolution summary - an Earth based agent will obtain the page, summarise it and put it on the MWW to be synchronised.




Offline aero

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Re: Internet Access for the New Mars Colony
« Reply #48 on: 08/05/2014 05:01 pm »
A big demand on bandwidth Mars to Earth will be in support of the virtual reality video game, "Exploring Mars."

Not a TV program watching the colonists, rather players virtually becoming a colonist/explorer and vicariously experiencing the exploration of a new planet. And a little of the hardships.

The game will be owned by the Mars colony so everyone on Mars will wear a camera feeding the net and building the database to support the game, especially those who go on a walk-about. Subscriptions to the game will go toward funding the colony.
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Offline Robert Thompson

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Re: Internet Access for the New Mars Colony
« Reply #49 on: 08/06/2014 12:07 am »
Smart caching would use recommender algorithms.

Offline bilbo

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Re: Internet Access for the New Mars Colony
« Reply #50 on: 08/19/2014 09:30 pm »
Oh well, sucks we wont get internet porn on mars. :)
I guess our martian astronauts will just have to bring playboys like the Apollo astronauts did!

Offline high road

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Re: Internet Access for the New Mars Colony
« Reply #51 on: 08/20/2014 09:59 am »
Oh well, sucks we wont get internet porn on mars. :)
I guess our martian astronauts will just have to bring playboys like the Apollo astronauts did!

For a two year trip? They'll be improvising some alternatives on Mars in no time. What do they have to work with? If Home Office is breathing down their necks, they'll have to go all the way back to cave art and fertility statuettes :p

Offline Robert Thompson

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Re: Internet Access for the New Mars Colony
« Reply #52 on: 08/20/2014 11:41 am »
ASCII

Offline guckyfan

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Re: Internet Access for the New Mars Colony
« Reply #53 on: 08/20/2014 12:57 pm »
Oh well, sucks we wont get internet porn on mars. :)
I guess our martian astronauts will just have to bring playboys like the Apollo astronauts did!

For a two year trip? They'll be improvising some alternatives on Mars in no time. What do they have to work with? If Home Office is breathing down their necks, they'll have to go all the way back to cave art and fertility statuettes :p

How about women? It is going to be a Colony after all.

Offline high road

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Re: Internet Access for the New Mars Colony
« Reply #54 on: 08/21/2014 06:54 am »
Oh well, sucks we wont get internet porn on mars. :)
I guess our martian astronauts will just have to bring playboys like the Apollo astronauts did!

For a two year trip? They'll be improvising some alternatives on Mars in no time. What do they have to work with? If Home Office is breathing down their necks, they'll have to go all the way back to cave art and fertility statuettes :p

How about women? It is going to be a Colony after all.

Despite the name, about half of the cavemen were actually women. There's plenty of erotic caveart and fertility statuettes from that time. ;-) Or how about ancient Rome? If ever there was a time with nearly unlimited easy, affordable and socially accepted access to sex, that was the time. Yet it's also the culture with the most plentiful erotic art.

Actually, the more men and women you put together, the closer you put them together, and the more they depend on cooperation, the more 'pornography' you get. People in psychology and sociology have some convincing theories about it being an excellent mechanism to relieve stress and to facilitate the social structure of the group.
« Last Edit: 08/21/2014 07:00 am by high road »

Offline Jet Black

Re: Internet Access for the New Mars Colony
« Reply #55 on: 09/03/2014 03:28 pm »
the internet on mars will be like the 1990s all over again.
For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled. -- Richard Feynman

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