Dragon v2 Kremlinology from Helodriver's unveiling pics

[Mariusuiram]

Another reason they stated was touch screen would be difficult to use with space glove on. Would like to see how well astronauts can operate the screen via simulation to find out the real deal.

Clearly SpaceX will provide one sausage for each astronaut during launch.

http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/11/south-korean-iphone-users-turn-to-sausages-as-a-cold-weather-me/

[Lars_J]

It is amazing to compare the dragon v2 and Orion interior mockups. The Orion is clearly rooted in the past as far as design philosophy. Not that Orion isn't more capable, but it is easy to see differences in the work cultures that created each spacecraft.

Don't fall into the trap of comparing them at this stage. An Orion with bare metal walls would not look that different. Orion's mock ups have been closer to flight fidelity than this Dragon v2 interior is.

There's no evidence for that.  The first crew flight in Orion is scheduled long after the first crew Dragon V2 flight.  The Orion control panels seen are in a mock-up of Orion.  The Dragon V2 control panel is in the real flight hardware, the very unit that is planned to fly to orbit.

If the Dragon V2 control panel had a more conservative design, everyone would immediately agree it's the final flight design.  The only reason anyone doesn't believe it is that it's not conservative and it doesn't conform to people's expectations.

SpaceX has been planning this for many years.  They have had design reviews with NASA.  I don't understand how anyone can seriously believe they don't have any idea how to design controls.  How could they not have their controls very far along in the design process by now?  And if they do have their controls far along in the design process, would they show a version of the controls radically different from what they plan to actually use?

Please. Use common sense. The Dragon v2 interior on display is in a similar state of completeness as this house interior. And you can take that to the bank. Doubt me? Bookmark this and we will compare notes in a year or two.

[clongton]

Another reason they [Orion team] stated was touch screen would be difficult to use with space glove on. Would like to see how well astronauts can operate the screen via simulation to find out the real deal.

Easy. There is no reason that space gloves can't have inductive fingertips.
I have seen people wearing such gloved fingertips, to keep fingerprints off the screen.
They work great.

Legacy equipment mindset looses another one.

[docmordrid]

In surgery touch screens are covered with one side of a sterile bag intended for x-ray film cassettes. This allows their use with surgical gloves or most anything else. No reason such a cover can't be used here.

[ChrisWilson68]

Also, there's a joystick and buttons in the center of the panel.  Who's to say the joystick can't be used to control a cursor and the buttons to click on things?

It might also respond to voice commands for all we know.

A large display screen doesn't necessarily mean it has to be controlled by touch.

[meekGee]

Please. Use common sense. The Dragon v2 interior on display is in a similar state of completeness as this house interior. And you can take that to the bank. Doubt me? Bookmark this and we will compare notes in a year or two.

Funny.  Most of use were under the impression that we were.

So before I bookmark, please quantify what it is that we are doubting, or else it's too vague to be a challenge:

- Will DV2 use touch screens?
- Will said screens pivot on a truss from the ceiling?
- Will there be four portrait oriented screens on top, with a flight control in the middle, and buttons at the bottom?
- Will it be this exact same setup?

- Will the chairs remain slender looking and rigidly connected to the body?
- Will it be this exact same setup?

You get the point.  Even in the unfinished house, the location of the doors and plumbing is already set, as is the fireplace and chimney.  As a matter of fact, everything except possible some non-load-bearing walls is already fully designed before start of construction, even though an amateur might think that the house is only 10% complete.

[llanitedave]

Are you saying that dragon v2 still needs drywall?

[Lars_J]

Please. Use common sense. The Dragon v2 interior on display is in a similar state of completeness as this house interior. And you can take that to the bank. Doubt me? Bookmark this and we will compare notes in a year or two.

Funny.  Most of use were under the impression that we were.

So before I bookmark, please quantify what it is that we are doubting, or else it's too vague to be a challenge:

1- Will DV2 use touch screens?
2- Will said screens pivot on a truss from the ceiling?
3- Will there be four portrait oriented screens on top, with a flight control in the middle, and buttons at the bottom?
4- Will it be this exact same setup?

5- Will the chairs remain slender looking and rigidly connected to the body?
6- Will it be this exact same setup?

You get the point.  Even in the unfinished house, the location of the doors and plumbing is already set, as is the fireplace and chimney.  As a matter of fact, everything except possible some non-load-bearing walls is already fully designed before start of construction, even though an amateur might think that the house is only 10% complete.

Since you asked, my predictions:
1. Yes, for non-critical functions
2. Yes
3. Close but not the same
4. Close but not the same
5. No, the chairs will be much beefier to absorb shocks
6. If you mean chair positioning, yes

You?

I agree with your house analogy. I'm mostly posting to argue with people who seem to think that the interior is final just because "bare metal looks sci-fi" and "Elon said so". Never mind that ECLSS, storage, and a crap-ton of others systems are missing. Thus my unfinished house analogy picture.

Are you saying that dragon v2 still needs drywall?

Indeed.

[darkenfast]

Remember that there is a shallow cylinder-shaped space under the deck.  It's about two feet deep and about seven feet in diameter.  I believe that's where the environmental systems are supposed to go.   

[meekGee]

Please. Use common sense. The Dragon v2 interior on display is in a similar state of completeness as this house interior. And you can take that to the bank. Doubt me? Bookmark this and we will compare notes in a year or two.

Funny.  Most of use were under the impression that we were.

So before I bookmark, please quantify what it is that we are doubting, or else it's too vague to be a challenge:

1- Will DV2 use touch screens?
2- Will said screens pivot on a truss from the ceiling?
3- Will there be four portrait oriented screens on top, with a flight control in the middle, and buttons at the bottom?
4- Will it be this exact same setup?

5- Will the chairs remain slender looking and rigidly connected to the body?
6- Will it be this exact same setup?

You get the point.  Even in the unfinished house, the location of the doors and plumbing is already set, as is the fireplace and chimney.  As a matter of fact, everything except possible some non-load-bearing walls is already fully designed before start of construction, even though an amateur might think that the house is only 10% complete.

Since you asked, my predictions:
1. Yes, for non-critical functions
2. Yes
3. Close but not the same
4. Close but not the same
5. No, the chairs will be much beefier to absorb shocks
6. If you mean chair positioning, yes

You?

I agree with your house analogy. I'm mostly posting to argue with people who seem to think that the interior is final just because "bare metal looks sci-fi" and "Elon said so". Never mind that ECLSS, storage, and a crap-ton of others systems are missing. Thus my unfinished house analogy picture.

Are you saying that dragon v2 still needs drywall?

Indeed.

I think they didn't bother making stuff that's not on the way to flight.

So if there are four touch screens on a truss rotating from the ceiling, then, yes, that's probably what it's going to be, and the concept of touch screen, truss stiffness, etc - has been thought out.  Is this the flight hardware?  maybe, maybe not.  But it's not that they're still debating the idea of touch screens.

Same with seats.  I think what we saw is what they want to do.  Remember they've been playing with seating configurations for a couple of years now, except we on the outside did not know what they'll fit them into.  So I can't imagine they had to quickly build a non-flight-like seat deck just because they couldn't show a seat-less capsule.  So again, my money is on this being pretty much the flight configuration.  They decided to take the shock using the capsule legs.  Think "air-ride cabs" in trucks.

What else was questionable?  The front hatch. I couldn't see enough detail. I think they want the astronauts to exit it in a "dignified way" (one of the specs for the presidential helicopter,  btw) - so that's the concept. Whether this hatch is actually it - it looks so simple and light weight that if it is, it's an amazing leap in design.

I don't know what to think of the shiny outside handle. 

... and all the bare walls, which is the only things that looks not done - but was never claimed to be final.


(oh, and sorry about the snipe regarding the common-sense remark.  came out stronger than I intended...)

[CuddlyRocket]

What else was questionable?  The front hatch. I couldn't see enough detail. I think they want the astronauts to exit it in a "dignified way" (one of the specs for the presidential helicopter,  btw) - so that's the concept. Whether this hatch is actually it - it looks so simple and light weight that if it is, it's an amazing leap in design.

I don't know what to think of the shiny outside handle.

How else are you supposed to open it when there's no-one inside?

Seriously, shiny is irrelevant and as for the apparent ease in opening they were hardly going to have it buttoned down tight for a PR unveiling. No doubt in actual use it won't be quite so simple.

[hrissan]

Please. Use common sense. The Dragon v2 interior on display is in a similar state of completeness as this house interior. And you can take that to the bank. Doubt me? Bookmark this and we will compare notes in a year or two.

Funny.  Most of use were under the impression that we were.

So before I bookmark, please quantify what it is that we are doubting, or else it's too vague to be a challenge:

1- Will DV2 use touch screens?
2- Will said screens pivot on a truss from the ceiling?
3- Will there be four portrait oriented screens on top, with a flight control in the middle, and buttons at the bottom?
4- Will it be this exact same setup?

5- Will the chairs remain slender looking and rigidly connected to the body?
6- Will it be this exact same setup?

You get the point.  Even in the unfinished house, the location of the doors and plumbing is already set, as is the fireplace and chimney.  As a matter of fact, everything except possible some non-load-bearing walls is already fully designed before start of construction, even though an amateur might think that the house is only 10% complete.

5. No, the chairs will be much beefier to absorb shocks

I very much doubt that point. How exactly could they, especially top row? Crumple and squeeze those people below?

IMO the seats frame are final: light and rigid, reportedly it would not move a hair under human weight.

The chute landing should be around 5 meter per second. You need just 50cm of braking to stop that at 10g, if you remember spacecraft lands on 2 legs, then on another 2 (splitting the shock roughtly in half), the controlled crushing of legs and support structure below pressure vessel alone could provide just enough braking power.

[Prober]

<Mood = "Grumpy at all this second-guessing">
Sounds like next time there's an event like this, we have to have two guys there, looking at everything.  That way it's not so easy for people to think they know more about something they haven't seen with their own eyes.
</Mood>

Not sure if this is the right thread but the mods can move it where they please

Since you brought up Sound
Didn't see much of a discussion of Sound related to this design.
We saw the videos of landing in Fla  So how is this going to work?
Let's talk sound levels, sound dissipation of Dragon V2.
Thinking about the Shuttles distinctive double boom. 

So let's talk margin, and dissipation of the sound levels.  Looking at the design starting to think a landing on land in Fla is going to have problems.  Operating over the continental US & Dissipating energy won't work due to the sound pollution is this wrong?

If right, then DV2 needs to return over the gulf correct?   You still run into the same sound pollution when passing over the industrial areas and homes in Florida near the cape.  Same question does DV2 have the margin?

Keep in mind that Sonic booms probably won't fly with a tourist industry etc in Southern Fla.   

Taking this to an extreme of sound pollution remember this?


So how is this going to work?

These are sound questions.

[TrueBlueWitt]

<Mood = "Grumpy at all this second-guessing">
Sounds like next time there's an event like this, we have to have two guys there, looking at everything.  That way it's not so easy for people to think they know more about something they haven't seen with their own eyes.
</Mood>

Not sure if this is the right thread but the mods can move it where they please

Since you brought up Sound
Didn't see much of a discussion of Sound related to this design.
We saw the videos of landing in Fla  So how is this going to work?
Let's talk sound levels, sound dissipation of Dragon V2.
Thinking about the Shuttles distinctive double boom. 

So let's talk margin, and dissipation of the sound levels.  Looking at the design starting to think a landing on land in Fla is going to have problems.  Operating over the continental US & Dissipating energy won't work due to the sound pollution is this wrong?

If right, then DV2 needs to return over the gulf correct?   You still run into the same sound pollution when passing over the industrial areas and homes in Florida near the cape.  Same question does DV2 have the margin?

Keep in mind that Sonic booms probably won't fly with a tourist industry etc in Southern Fla.   

Taking this to an extreme of sound pollution remember this?


So how is this going to work?

These are sound questions.

Dragon V2 is significantly smaller than most meteors(that are heard on the ground).. and definitely smaller than shuttle(which generated Supersonic booms over Florida or California on every re-entry.. right?), and would enter at a steeper angle than shuttle as well, so less area would be affected.   Not sure if the public would really have a strong negative view about this, unless it becomes a daily proposition(like supersonic aircraft would have been).

[JFARNS]

Just a few thoughts.
If the Dragon V2 was just a prototype we would have seen it last year.
The front hatch: I saw a close-up side view (can't find it now) that showed it to be about the same thickness as the capsule wall. Plenty of room for a substantial latch mechanism. Also the two lift arms look beefy and appear to be pneumatic assist. Looks easy to lift but could be quite heavy. Also looking at the video, Elon did some fancy maneuvering of that handle to get it opened. Not just a car door.
Hatch looks real to me.
DV2 is not completely ready for manned launch — as stated, a year away from unmanned flight, but I think we were seeing the real deal.
BTW is the Dragon really coming to the DC area? I'm only about a 4 hr drive from there.

[Burninate]

<Mood = "Grumpy at all this second-guessing">
Sounds like next time there's an event like this, we have to have two guys there, looking at everything.  That way it's not so easy for people to think they know more about something they haven't seen with their own eyes.
</Mood>

Not sure if this is the right thread but the mods can move it where they please

Since you brought up Sound
Didn't see much of a discussion of Sound related to this design.
We saw the videos of landing in Fla  So how is this going to work?
Let's talk sound levels, sound dissipation of Dragon V2.
Thinking about the Shuttles distinctive double boom. 

So let's talk margin, and dissipation of the sound levels.  Looking at the design starting to think a landing on land in Fla is going to have problems.  Operating over the continental US & Dissipating energy won't work due to the sound pollution is this wrong?

If right, then DV2 needs to return over the gulf correct?   You still run into the same sound pollution when passing over the industrial areas and homes in Florida near the cape.  Same question does DV2 have the margin?

Keep in mind that Sonic booms probably won't fly with a tourist industry etc in Southern Fla.   

Taking this to an extreme of sound pollution remember this?


So how is this going to work?

These are sound questions.

Dragon V2 is significantly smaller than most meteors(that are heard on the ground).. and definitely smaller than shuttle(which generated Supersonic booms over Florida or California on every re-entry.. right?), and would enter at a steeper angle than shuttle as well, so less area would be affected.   Not sure if the public would really have a strong negative view about this, unless it becomes a daily proposition(like supersonic aircraft would have been).

While supersonic shockwaves are quite irritating (and have contributed to the failure of supersonic passenger aircraft), the Chelyabinsk explosion was not analogous to a heat-shielded reentry - the main event during the reentry was a split-second runaway expansion of a thousand cubic meters of rock into a million cubic meters of chunky burning dust and moving air.

When they talk about 'something coming to the DC area', the most likely interpretation is that they're going to park a trailer holding the unit on the National Mall in front of the National Air & Space Museum for an afternoon-long exhibit, something the NASM has done with other spacecraft before.

[woods170]

Please. Use common sense. The Dragon v2 interior on display is in a similar state of completeness as this house interior. And you can take that to the bank. Doubt me? Bookmark this and we will compare notes in a year or two.

Funny.  Most of use were under the impression that we were.

So before I bookmark, please quantify what it is that we are doubting, or else it's too vague to be a challenge:

1- Will DV2 use touch screens?
2- Will said screens pivot on a truss from the ceiling?
3- Will there be four portrait oriented screens on top, with a flight control in the middle, and buttons at the bottom?
4- Will it be this exact same setup?

5- Will the chairs remain slender looking and rigidly connected to the body?
6- Will it be this exact same setup?

You get the point.  Even in the unfinished house, the location of the doors and plumbing is already set, as is the fireplace and chimney.  As a matter of fact, everything except possible some non-load-bearing walls is already fully designed before start of construction, even though an amateur might think that the house is only 10% complete.

Since you asked, my predictions:
1. Yes, for non-critical functions
2. Yes
3. Close but not the same
4. Close but not the same
5. No, the chairs will be much beefier to absorb shocks
6. If you mean chair positioning, yes

You?

I agree with your house analogy. I'm mostly posting to argue with people who seem to think that the interior is final just because "bare metal looks sci-fi" and "Elon said so". Never mind that ECLSS, storage, and a crap-ton of others systems are missing. Thus my unfinished house analogy picture.

Are you saying that dragon v2 still needs drywall?

Indeed.

The dead give-away is actually not the bare-bones look of interior but the fact that Elon mentioned that about half a billion US dollars are needed to get Dragon v2 flying. We were looking at a spacecraft that is in advanced state of development, but it is far from finished.

[Barrie]

The dead give-away is actually not the bare-bones look of interior but the fact that Elon mentioned that about half a billion US dollars are needed to get Dragon v2 flying. We were looking at a spacecraft that is in advanced state of development, but it is far from finished.

Would that half a billion include the Dragonfly and abort tests, or is it just for putting missing systems into Dragon?

[guckyfan]

The dead give-away is actually not the bare-bones look of interior but the fact that Elon mentioned that about half a billion US dollars are needed to get Dragon v2 flying. We were looking at a spacecraft that is in advanced state of development, but it is far from finished.

Would that half a billion include the Dragonfly and abort tests, or is it just for putting missing systems into Dragon?

MaxQ-abort, the unmanned flight and the manned testflight all are part of the develpment phase. That should adequately explain the cost.

[docmordrid]

Just a few thoughts.
If the Dragon V2 was just a prototype we would have seen it last year.
The front hatch: I saw a close-up side view (can't find it now) that showed it to be about the same thickness as the capsule wall. Plenty of room for a substantial latch mechanism. Also the two lift arms look beefy and appear to be pneumatic assist.
>

Some stills from Helodrivers video....