Dragon v2 Kremlinology from Helodriver's unveiling pics

[RonM]

It tells us a lot about how complete the capsule is.

It really doesn't.  The Super Dracos seem to be modular, and should be relatively easy to install or remove.  Removing and replacing them may be part of regular maintenance.

But it does. No SuperDracos would not tell us they are not ready. But having them installed tells us they are ready.

No it doesn't. Whatever they put in the Dragon V2 on display doesn't say anything about the status of Super Draco development. It could have been fake nozzles, real nozzles without the rest of the engine, prototype engines, etc. It doesn't matter.

Anyway, there was a Super Draco on display. We got to see all the cool plumbing, but that doesn't tell us it is ready for flight.

We'll see if the Super Draco design is ready when the DragonFly tests begin.

[ChrisWilson68]

It tells us a lot about how complete the capsule is.

It really doesn't.  The Super Dracos seem to be modular, and should be relatively easy to install or remove.  Removing and replacing them may be part of regular maintenance.

But it does. No SuperDracos would not tell us they are not ready. But having them installed tells us they are ready.

No it doesn't. Whatever they put in the Dragon V2 on display doesn't say anything about the status of Super Draco development. It could have been fake nozzles, real nozzles without the rest of the engine, prototype engines, etc. It doesn't matter.

Anyway, there was a Super Draco on display. We got to see all the cool plumbing, but that doesn't tell us it is ready for flight.

We'll see if the Super Draco design is ready when the DragonFly tests begin.

You do know that they've completed qualification testing for Super Draco, right?  There's no doubt at all that Super Draco is ready for flight.

However, they might not have produced all 8 engines for DragonFly, and if they have produced them, they might not have finished acceptance testing of all the engines.  They also might not have finished various other bits of Dragon that will be needed for DragonFly, and they might not have finished construction of the airframe that will be DragonFly.  Remember, they have to produce a copy of Dragon V2 for the pad abort test, and that might have priority over DragonFly.  Or not; we really don't know.

[RonM]

You do know that they've completed qualification testing for Super Draco, right?  There's no doubt at all that Super Draco is ready for flight.

That's nice to know.

Then what the heck have these people been arguing about?

SpaceX will build enough engines for their tests and first flight. It doesn't matter if they had eight Super Dracos installed when EM showed us the Dragon V2. It will have them when they launch it.

[InfraNut2]

This discussion is "a storm in a glass of water" as we say in Norway.

The completion of qualification testing already says SD is definitely ready.

The display of the SD pod already says that they are well into SD integration into DV2, but it is hard to say just how much is left from what we know. They could be finished except for testing, or they could still have a lot left to do, or a little.

The presence or absence of SDs on the DV2 display unit could be attributed to any one of a very long list of possible causes, and a lot of them says nothing whatsoever about the state of the DV2 SD integration work. Their presence would confirm the existence of a number of SDs, however,  but they may or may not be the qualified version.

At best it is a vague and unreliable hint about the state of the integration work. Next to no value in that... beyond what the SD qualification and SD pod display already provides.

We will have to wait for the first DragonFly test as RonM says or something else less vague like the PAD Abort test or informative statement(s) from SpaceX, before we have anything that is actually useful for making further predictions.

edit: a little clarification

[JBF]

Here is a new picture, any idea what those cylinders are?

[GalacticIntruder]

It is funny that the Orion team said they did not choose touch screens because they worried about zero G objects floating inside the capsule might hit the screen, and then trigger something by accident.

[meekGee]

It is funny that the Orion team said they did not choose touch screens because they worried about zero G objects floating inside the capsule might hit the screen, and then trigger something by accident.

Even without extra measures, both my phone and my laptop are very good at rejecting unintended contacts - even unintended touches.

Adding a bit of gesture requirements (e.g. drag the button down to get its attention and then left-for-off, right-for-on) adds another layer of safety on top of that.

[llanitedave]

As long as Apple hasn't patented it!   

[Sean Lynch]

It is funny that the Orion team said they did not choose touch screens because they worried about zero G objects floating inside the capsule might hit the screen, and then trigger something by accident.

When Orion began touch screens were not ubiquitous as they are today...and conservative management tends to favor minimal modifications to proven legacy systems that lie within their comfort zones.

Even without extra measures, both my phone and my laptop are very good at rejecting unintended contacts - even unintended touches.

Adding a bit of gesture requirements (e.g. drag the button down to get its attention and then left-for-off, right-for-on) adds another layer of safety on top of that.

Exactly meekGee.

We're looking at an automated spacecraft design with simplified manual controls/overrides for use in case of emergencies that the flight software can't handle on its own.
The controls and displays on Dragon V2 aren't rooted in legacy system design that require miles of wire, switches and breaker panels.   SpaceX from the outset is using the most modern engineering methods and best practices and was able to do so because its origin from a bare shop floor was unburdened by designs and internal procedures rooted in legacy technology and legacy management.
Dragon V2 will fly herself, dock herself and land herself, exactly what you would expect of a spacecraft using current technology. It's really a thrill to see all of the design, modeling and manufacturing technologies evolving for the last 30 years come together under one roof.

[CuddlyRocket]

It is funny that the Orion team said they did not choose touch screens because they worried about zero G objects floating inside the capsule might hit the screen, and then trigger something by accident.

Even without extra measures, both my phone and my laptop are very good at rejecting unintended contacts - even unintended touches.

Adding a bit of gesture requirements (e.g. drag the button down to get its attention and then left-for-off, right-for-on) adds another layer of safety on top of that.

Lots of functions will simply be disabled at various points of flight - for instance if the docking mechanism is engaged, then you probably are not going to want to initiate either the abort or landing sequences! - and I would expect that there'll be a sensor to detect there's actually an astronaut in one of the seats. (Though there'll no doubt be a procedure for overriding these safeguards in an emergency etc.) Simpler safeguards are a form of captcha; having to enter things multiple times; near simultaneous commands, and no doubt many others.

[inventodoc]

It is amazing to compare the dragon v2 and Orion interior mockups. The Orion is clearly rooted in the past as far as design philosophy. Not that Orion isn't more capable, but it is easy to see differences in the work cultures that created each spacecraft.

[Lars_J]

It is amazing to compare the dragon v2 and Orion interior mockups. The Orion is clearly rooted in the past as far as design philosophy. Not that Orion isn't more capable, but it is easy to see differences in the work cultures that created each spacecraft.

Don't fall into the trap of comparing them at this stage. An Orion with bare metal walls would not look that different. Orion's mock ups have been closer to flight fidelity than this Dragon v2 interior is.

[inventodoc]

It is amazing to compare the dragon v2 and Orion interior mockups. The Orion is clearly rooted in the past as far as design philosophy. Not that Orion isn't more capable, but it is easy to see differences in the work cultures that created each spacecraft.

Don't fall into the trap of comparing them at this stage. An Orion with bare metal walls would not look that different. Orion's mock ups have been closer to flight fidelity than this Dragon v2 interior is.

I get that there is a bit of Hollywood in the SpaceX interior and do expect a lot of things to go in later that wlll make it look 'not as cool'.   It is similar with the CST-100.  That said, the traditional contactors, and NASA, still think in terms of legacy systems approaches rather than getting more inspiration from consumer technologies that have leapfrogged stuff from the aeronautics field.   Sometimes being conservative is okay. It's predictable, but it only gets you so far.

Think about smartphones, tablets, automobile interiors, office furniture design - these  use brand new interface and materials approaches that SpaceX tends to think of that others don't see.   Look at Falcon 9, which combines a fairly Soviet design approach with new materials and technologies, while maintaining a simple, practical vision.   The thought of transferring some shock absorption from seats to landing pegs is an example of this approach - as are pusher abort/propulsive landing thrusters, the control panel system, the heat shield segments extending up the side walls under the SuperDracos, SuperDracos, etc.....

Based on Elon's interview, it sounds like they've got ~$500 million into this capsule and have another ~$500 million to go.  It looks like many parts of this capsule are the real deal.  I suspect that the seats and control panel are faithful to their vision but are more for show right now.  This is about what one would expect at this point in development.

[ChrisWilson68]

It is amazing to compare the dragon v2 and Orion interior mockups. The Orion is clearly rooted in the past as far as design philosophy. Not that Orion isn't more capable, but it is easy to see differences in the work cultures that created each spacecraft.

Don't fall into the trap of comparing them at this stage. An Orion with bare metal walls would not look that different. Orion's mock ups have been closer to flight fidelity than this Dragon v2 interior is.

There's no evidence for that.  The first crew flight in Orion is scheduled long after the first crew Dragon V2 flight.  The Orion control panels seen are in a mock-up of Orion.  The Dragon V2 control panel is in the real flight hardware, the very unit that is planned to fly to orbit.

If the Dragon V2 control panel had a more conservative design, everyone would immediately agree it's the final flight design.  The only reason anyone doesn't believe it is that it's not conservative and it doesn't conform to people's expectations.

SpaceX has been planning this for many years.  They have had design reviews with NASA.  I don't understand how anyone can seriously believe they don't have any idea how to design controls.  How could they not have their controls very far along in the design process by now?  And if they do have their controls far along in the design process, would they show a version of the controls radically different from what they plan to actually use?

[ChrisWilson68]

Based on Elon's interview, it sounds like they've got ~$500 million into this capsule and have another ~$500 million to go.  It looks like many parts of this capsule are the real deal.  I suspect that the seats and control panel are faithful to their vision but are more for show right now.  This is about what one would expect at this point in development.

A lot of what they have left to do is flight testing and building additional units.  That is expensive.  I wouldn't read too much into the dollar amounts.

[aero]

The appearance of the D V2 control panel is different from tradition. The control panel is the Man-Machine interface. Man will operate it - but also the Machine is (AIUI) more automatic than traditional machines. I speculate that the control panel provides everything needed to operate the machine with automatics. My only question is, "Will the traditionalists at NASA buy off on that much automation?

[ChrisWilson68]

My only question is, "Will the traditionalists at NASA buy off on that much automation?

The Dragon V2 design has passed several review milestones with NASA, including a safety review.  I can't see how those reviews could fail to include the controls and level of automation, and NASA has bought off on those reviews.

[docmordrid]

One would think their faith in SpaceX's automation will be enhanced by CRS, what they see hopping around McGregor, during stage landings and later what they see DragonFly do. Seems dern impressive so far.

[justineet]

Not sure where to put this, but looking at the control panels in Helodriver's photos I just noticed something that bugs me as a physicist:
The "2" in O2 and CO2 are placed as superscripts and not subscripts! Arghh! 
(see attached image)

Also, it's bad practice, in my opinion, to have the O2 and CO2 levels indicated on 0 - 100% scales. A quick search on the web shows that, from a health perspective, O2 should be between 19% and 24% and CO2 should be less than 0.6%. The indicators should be scaled accordingly.

//Science rant end

O2 and CO2 figures listed are in the ranges you indicated as normal.

[justineet]

It is funny that the Orion team said they did not choose touch screens because they worried about zero G objects floating inside the capsule might hit the screen, and then trigger something by accident.

Even without extra measures, both my phone and my laptop are very good at rejecting unintended contacts - even unintended touches.

Adding a bit of gesture requirements (e.g. drag the button down to get its attention and then left-for-off, right-for-on) adds another layer of safety on top of that.

Another reason they stated was touch screen would be difficult to use with space glove on. Would like to see how well astronauts can operate the screen via simulation to find out the real deal.