Author Topic: Funding for a domestic liquid engine in the National Defense authorization bill  (Read 156616 times)

Offline Jim

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But different name.  Atlas is going away.  Vulcan is replacing it.


The name isn't that important.  I guess you didn't realize that Titan didn't really go away either.  It is present in Atlas V and some of it processes. 


Offline manboy

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Also, there is no need for an Atlas V replacement, it is fine as is.
It's just too expensive and uses foreign built engines.
"Cheese has been sent into space before. But the same cheese has never been sent into space twice." - StephenB

Offline gongora

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If Atlas V can't fly defense missions, then what? So the ULA block buy has to go away? There are missions obligated under that which can't be flown if there aren't engines. I'm not clear on what you're saying, Jim.

I thought the only problem for ULA is having RD-180's for missions outside of the block buy (missions being bid in the next few years).

Offline AncientU

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After Delta IV is dead and buried, AR taking forever and developing a completely uncompetitive engine (again) simply means that ULA/parents will have continued reason to get exemption for more RD-180s. 

It's RD-180s all the way down, folks.  Ask Jim.


Wrong, that is not what I said.

Your beliefs are not shared with the majority, nor are they true.

I purposely left out Delta IV heavy, it will need a replacement.  Once Vulcan is online and ready to replace Delta IV, it can also replace Atlas V

So, the majority believe that Delta IV will be around until Vulcan is ready circa 2020, and it can, not will replace Atlas V?

Gen. Greaves plus a few others in DOD, and CEO Bruno say Delta IV will retire in 2017 and Vulcan will replace Atlas V.  (IMO, they also believe F9/FH will likely replace Delta IV M/Heavy.)

Who makes up this majority, if these individuals aren't in it? Or are you saying that the truth is that nobody in the majority think RD-180 is going away? Or that the majority think ULA can be cost competitive with Atlas, Delta, and Vulcan all flying in the early 2020s?

I doubt your majority exists.
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Offline MP99



[Gen. Greaves plus a few others in DOD, and CEO Bruno say Delta IV will retire in 2017...

Delta IV medium only, I thought?

Cheers, Martin

Offline Jim

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So, the majority believe that Delta IV will be around until Vulcan is ready circa 2020, and it can, not will replace Atlas V?

Gen. Greaves plus a few others in DOD, and CEO Bruno say Delta IV will retire in 2017 and Vulcan will replace Atlas V.  (IMO, they also believe F9/FH will likely replace Delta IV M/Heavy.)

Who makes up this majority, if these individuals aren't in it? Or are you saying that the truth is that nobody in the majority think RD-180 is going away? Or that the majority think ULA can be cost competitive with Atlas, Delta, and Vulcan all flying in the early 2020s?


The comment about your beliefs not share by the majority was in general and not specific to this topic.  You make many nonsensical and completely wrong posts (like this one).

For example, Delta IV is not going retire in 2017.  A simple search shows that NASA has a launch on Delta IV in 2018 for Solar Probe Plus.  Then there is the matter of the 4 Delta IV Heavies that are part of the 36 core block buy.  Those are not all launching in the next two years.

Atlas and Vulcan will be coexisting for a few years during the transition.


Offline Rummy

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So, the majority believe that Delta IV will be around until Vulcan is ready circa 2020, and it can, not will replace Atlas V?

Gen. Greaves plus a few others in DOD, and CEO Bruno say Delta IV will retire in 2017 and Vulcan will replace Atlas V.  (IMO, they also believe F9/FH will likely replace Delta IV M/Heavy.)

Who makes up this majority, if these individuals aren't in it? Or are you saying that the truth is that nobody in the majority think RD-180 is going away? Or that the majority think ULA can be cost competitive with Atlas, Delta, and Vulcan all flying in the early 2020s?


The comment about your beliefs not share by the majority was in general and not specific to this topic.  You make many nonsensical and completely wrong posts (like this one).

For example, Delta IV is not going retire in 2017.  A simple search shows that NASA has a launch on Delta IV in 2018 for Solar Probe Plus.  Then there is the matter of the 4 Delta IV Heavies that are part of the 36 core block buy.  Those are not all launching in the next two years.

Atlas and Vulcan will be coexisting for a few years during the transition.

Jim is correct. Also, Delta IV Heavy isn't going away until the Air Force has a viable alternative and has conducted the necessary early integration activities for the most stressing missions on this alternative. That will take a long time.

Regarding the Vulcan / Atlas name issue... The Vulcan will need to be certified as a new vehicle regardless of the percentage of heritage components because it uses a new engine. 

Offline Navier–Stokes

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Good news regarding recent efforts to restrict spending to main engines only:
Quote
In a statement of administration policy issued May 16, the White House said it “strongly objects” to language in the House version of the 2017 National Defense Authorization Act (H.R. 4909), citing it as one of several reasons why advisers would recommend the president veto the bill if Congress sends it to his desk as written.

The White House argues that the bill overemphasizes spending on development of a main engine over an overall launch system. It also claims that language giving the Defense Department data rights to launch systems developed under the program is not feasible and could require renegotiation of contracts already awarded by the Air Force.
http://spacenews.com/white-house-strongly-objects-to-defense-bills-launch-provisions/

Offline TrevorMonty

It was a case of Aerojet lobbyists versus ULA, Blue, OA and SpaceX lobbyists. Aerojet was never going to win this one.

Offline starhawk92

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Quote
Meanwhile, Bob Work, the deputy secretary of defense, said May 23 if the Air Force did not have access to the RD-180, “the cost impacts and disruption” would be significant. In a letter to Sen. Bill Nelson (D-Fla.), Work said the cost of moving Atlas 5 missions to ULA’s other rocket, the more expensive Delta 4, would be between $1.5 billion to $5 billion. He also suggested that if ULA could not compete for national security launch missions due to a ban on the Atlas 5 it could force the Boeing-Lockheed Martin joint venture to shut its doors.

“If ULA is no longer competitive for these missions, it is unclear whether ULA would have sufficient funds available to continue to invest in a next-generation domestic launch vehicle, or even to stay in business,” he said.

- See more at: http://spacenews.com/mccain-wants-proof-rd-180-purchases-dont-violate-u-s-sanctions/#sthash.FCulDoG9.dpuf

This is the first concrete statement I've seen that ULA may not be able to survive the new, competitive environment for space launch.  Blue origin better get a move on!

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