Author Topic: Orbital and ATK’s Aerospace and Defense Groups to Combine in $5 Billion Merger  (Read 71361 times)

Online Chris Bergin

Oh, one more question, on solids.

Propulsion is a large amount of the cost for a vehicle. Orbital can really benefit with this deal with ATK on that score. It's the best of both worlds.

And that's over.

Offline edkyle99

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"This is the kind of merger, often sought, but rarely found." - Dave Thompson.
ATK is the majority partner, but Dave Thompson seems to be doing most of the talking.  The HQ would move to Orbital's site in Virginia.  Would Mr. Thompson become the new CEO?

Is this Orbital's response to SpaceX - a shift to a more vertically integrated company?

Will there be push back from ATK product buyers ULA (Delta 4 solids and EELV composites) and Lockheed Martin (Athena?), not to mention the big shift in the defense business?

What will Utah do?

 - Ed Kyle
« Last Edit: 04/29/2014 01:57 PM by edkyle99 »

Offline MP99

Will there be push back from ATK product buyers ULA (Delta 4 solids and EELV composites) and Lockheed Martin (Athena?), not to mention the big shift in the defense business?

If it reduces their costs (or even stops them going up), and therefore their prices, why should they?

cheers, Martin

Online Chris Bergin

They are back, but this is about the sporting market.....and it's shooting sports. I think we'll pass on this part.

Chris G will have us an article on the merger tonight.

Offline yg1968

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"This is the kind of merger, often sought, but rarely found." - Dave Thompson.
ATK is the majority partner, but Dave Thompson seems to be doing most of the talking.  The HQ would move to Orbital's site in Virginia.  Would Mr. Thompson become the new CEO?

Is this Orbital's response to SpaceX - a shift to a more vertically integrated company?

Will there be push back from ATK product buyers ULA (Delta 4 solids and EELV composites) and Lockheed Martin (Athena?), not to mention the big shift in the defense business?

 - Ed Kyle

I think that it is more about ATK and Orbital trying to diversify than anything else.
« Last Edit: 04/29/2014 02:10 PM by yg1968 »

Offline edkyle99

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Will there be push back from ATK product buyers ULA (Delta 4 solids and EELV composites) and Lockheed Martin (Athena?), not to mention the big shift in the defense business?

If it reduces their costs (or even stops them going up), and therefore their prices, why should they?

cheers, Martin
I'm trying to think of the last merger that reduced prices in the space business.  And who will get cheaper prices, Lockheed Martin for its Athena or ATK-Orbital for its Stratolaunch, Antares, Minotaur, etc.?  I'm not sure now that Athena can survive.

Now all eyes turn to Aerojet, the next shoe.

 - Ed Kyle
« Last Edit: 04/29/2014 02:04 PM by edkyle99 »

Offline Kabloona

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"This is the kind of merger, often sought, but rarely found." - Dave Thompson.
ATK is the majority partner, but Dave Thompson seems to be doing most of the talking.  The HQ would move to Orbital's site in Virginia.  Would Mr. Thompson become the new CEO?


from SpaceNews article:

"Orbital Chief Executive David W. Thompson will retain his post in the new ensemble, with ATK Aerospace President Blake E. Larson becoming chief operating officer of Orbital ATK. "

Offline edkyle99

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"This is the kind of merger, often sought, but rarely found." - Dave Thompson.
ATK is the majority partner, but Dave Thompson seems to be doing most of the talking.  The HQ would move to Orbital's site in Virginia.  Would Mr. Thompson become the new CEO?


from SpaceNews article:

"Orbital Chief Executive David W. Thompson will retain his post in the new ensemble, with ATK Aerospace President Blake E. Larson becoming chief operating officer of Orbital ATK. "
The name of the new company seems to also be a clue about who will run the show.

 - Ed Kyle

Offline woods170

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"This is the kind of merger, often sought, but rarely found." - Dave Thompson.
ATK is the majority partner, but Dave Thompson seems to be doing most of the talking.  The HQ would move to Orbital's site in Virginia.  Would Mr. Thompson become the new CEO?
From the press release: Dave Thompson will be the CEO.

Is this Orbital's response to SpaceX - a shift to a more vertically integrated company?
Not likely a response. SpaceX influence on the market has not been large enough yet. A reason (among all the other reasons) for this merger could be anticipating for a fastly growing influence of SpaceX on the market.

Will there be push back from ATK product buyers ULA (Delta 4 solids and EELV composites) and Lockheed Martin (Athena?), not to mention the big shift in the defense business?
I expect no near-term push back from ULA because the new Orbital/ATK will still not be in the same market segment as ULA is.

What will Utah do?
Likely not a whole lot. Business of ATK barely overlaps that of Orbital. I don't expect much (or any) of the work done by ATK in Utah to be moved to a different state. Much too expensive, regardless of all this management fluff about synergies.
« Last Edit: 04/29/2014 02:21 PM by woods170 »

Offline edkyle99

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Re: The idea of a solid motor replacement for the Antares first stage.  It would definitely take two solid stages to replace the existing NK-33 powered first stage.  Look at Ariane 6 and Stratolaunch for the outline.

 - Ed Kyle

Offline clongton

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I don't like this merger one bit. I have a lot of respect for Orbital and almost none for ATK. I fear ATK will be the blood in the water for this new company and completely ruin a wonderful company with it's "Everything I own is mine and everything you think you own is mine too - you just haven't admitted it yet" attitude. Been there with them. Done that with them. Ran away from them to lick our wounds. ATK is going to totally ruin Orbital's culture imo. It's being touted as a merger of equals. However there's no doubt who will call the shots: Orbital has 46.2% ownership while ATK has 53.8% ownership. The Orbital culture will be submerged.
« Last Edit: 04/29/2014 03:55 PM by clongton »
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Offline yg1968

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> ATK will spin off its Sporting Group, which focuses on commercial sporting equipment, to its shareholders. <

Didn't know they had a "sporting group"! Shirt sponsors for Liverpool next year? ;D


The Sporting Group sells mostly guns and hunting accessories.
« Last Edit: 04/29/2014 02:44 PM by yg1968 »

Offline kevin-rf

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> ATK will spin off its Sporting Group, which focuses on commercial sporting equipment, to its shareholders. <

Didn't know they had a "sporting group"! Shirt sponsors for Liverpool next year? ;D


The Sporting Group sells mostly guns and hunting accessories.

Brings the game to a whole new level :D
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Offline kevin-rf

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Seriously, did they mention how finished goods would be transferred between divisions?

Would it be cost plus 10 (pretty standard) or would it be with standard margins?

What does Orbital do within Orbital now? Anyone know?

The reason I am asking is Orbital uses a fair amount of ATK stuff in it's products and was wondering if it would have a trickle down on the services they provide. Might make them more competitive when competing on future contracts. That whole vertical integration synergy thing.
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Offline Kabloona

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Peter B. de Selding (@pbdes) tweeted at 10:01am - 29 Apr 14:

"Orbital CEO: Our big problem with LVs has been need to outsource propulsion system, which is 25-35% of LV cost. ATK merger solves problem. (https://twitter.com/pbdes/status/461143290952564736)

"Orbital CEO's comments on ATK merger suggest co moving to ATK to replace Russian 1st stage propulsion system on Orbital's Antares rocket. (https://twitter.com/pbdes/status/461146655036030976)
« Last Edit: 04/29/2014 03:02 PM by Kabloona »

Offline Elmar Moelzer

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I don't like this merger one bit. I have a lot of respect for Orbital and almost none for ATK.
Similar feelings here. Still this is quite a "wow" situation!

Offline TerryNaylor

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Wow. Still people with dislike for ATK. Get over it, it was a different company and NASA were at fault for Challenger.

Offline Lars_J

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Wow. Still people with dislike for ATK. Get over it, it was a different company and NASA were at fault for Challenger.

The reasons for disliking ATK are a lot more recent than Challenger.

Offline mr. mark

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Wowwwwwwwwwwww!

I would have seen an Orbital / SpaceX merger as a more likely play.  Maybe there will be an Orbital ATK / SpaceX merger someday.  Hmmm hmmm hmmm.

I miss the days of Bob Crippen at the helm of Thiokol Propulsion.  Clearly from the news, ATK over diversified with the sporting (ammo) stuff. 

Thiokol started from making adhesives (aka glue) by someone throwing chemicals down the drain by accident. 

This company can never go down the drain, they were already there.  We're witnessing what backs up out of the drain now...

=D

I'd like to see Antares with landing legs LOL. To be honest they are very different companies with extremely different philosophies. Can't every see it happening.

Offline arachnitect

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So that happened.

I'm going to miss Orbital's red on white logo. I hope the "Orbital ATK" logo in the presentation is just a placeholder.

I wonder what this means for the Athena people at LM? If this turns out to be the last straw for Athena, OrbATK would have a de facto monopoly on the US small launch market. Of course if LM wants to buy motors from them, Orbital would be in a funny position denying them after their recent RD-180 lawsuit.

All solid Antares may have gotten a little more likely... but Orbital did just solicit multiple bids for a liquid propulsion solution. Maybe further out.

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