Author Topic: Sea Launch Future (Read 155150 times)

ChrisWilson68 · « **Reply #160 on:** 05/26/2016 01:58 am »

Yeah, Boeing can have any assets in the U.S. seized. The former Sea Launch vessels are the obvious targets. But the judgement isn't against Sea Launch, it's against the former partner companies, so any other assets of those companies in the U.S. could be vulnerable. But I don't know if they have any other U.S. assets.

To seize assets in another country requires Boeing to convince the judiciary in that country to uphold the judgement. That's extremely unlikely in Russia.

It will make it hard for these companies to do future business in the West, though. Remember when a hedge fund that held Argentine government bonds filed to seize the launch slot Argentina had for a SpaceX launch? Any sort of business with a Western company that these companies engage in could open them up to having assets seized.

kq6ea · « **Reply #161 on:** 05/26/2016 04:06 am »

There was a legal dispute over whether Energia Logistics U.S. (ELUS) was actually a "dodge" by Energia to get out of disputes like this.

The dispute was that if Energia owes Boeing money, is ELUS responsible for it.

I don't recall if that issue was resolved, or if it's still in the courts.

ChrisWilson68 · « **Reply #162 on:** 05/26/2016 06:05 am »

Quote from: kq6ea on 05/26/2016 04:06 am

There was a legal dispute over whether Energia Logistics U.S. (ELUS) was actually a "dodge" by Energia to get out of disputes like this.

The dispute was that if Energia owes Boeing money, is ELUS responsible for it.

I don't recall if that issue was resolved, or if it's still in the courts.

The Russian Space Web page linked to above claims that on May 12 there was a judgement in favor of Boeing against RKK Energia for $322.49 million. If that's accurate, it means the parent Energia, not ELUS, is liable for the judgement.

The page doesn't cite any sources, but it does give specific details including the date, the name of the judge and the precise court which issued the judgement. And it spells out the name of the company as "RKK Energia". With that attention to detail, it seems unlikely the site mistook ELUS for RKK Energia, and I don't see why they would deliberately lie, so I think it's highly likely the judgement was actually against the parent company.

kq6ea · « **Reply #163 on:** 05/26/2016 06:37 pm »

Yes, I'm fully aware that the judgement was against the parent company, but I doubt if RKK Energia has any assets in the US that could be seized because they'll probably just laugh at Boeing over the judgement.

Boeing's other lawsuit was that ELUS and Energia RKK are really the same company, which would mean that any ELUS assets are "available" for seizure.

At any rate, I doubt if the ships will moving any time soon. It wouldn't surprise me if their next voyage was to the scrap yard.......

THeel01 · « **Reply #164 on:** 06/15/2016 05:46 pm »

Maybe to Oz?

http://www.ntnews.com.au/news/northern-territory/nt-government-working-to-bring-space-industry-to-territory/news-story/dd89fb368bbcdc37a0899c47d2e98340

kq6ea · « **Reply #165 on:** 06/16/2016 05:55 am »

Aside from a few technical errors in the story, and the "unsecured creditor" who "popped up", there might still be some hope for the ACS and LP to be back in service!

Steven Pietrobon · « **Reply #166 on:** 06/16/2016 06:22 am »

That would be incredible news for Australia is this becomes true. There have been many aborted attempts at getting commercial launch into Australia. They include Zenit from Cape York, Soyuz from Christmas Island, Kistler K-1, Start-1 and Europa from Woomera and Ariane from Darwin. One of the big problems has been lack of government support. I'm not sure if Zenits can be continued to be used, as the engines and upper stage come from Russia and the first and second stage propellant tanks come from Ukraine.

Steven Pietrobon · « **Reply #167 on:** 06/16/2016 06:38 am »

Quote from: kq6ea on 06/16/2016 05:55 am

Aside from a few technical errors in the story, and the "unsecured creditor" who "popped up", there might still be some hope for the ACS and LP to be back in service!

I think the unsecured creditor might be Boeing, as we know Boeing has been in court over this.

kq6ea · « **Reply #168 on:** 06/16/2016 06:54 am »

I'm sure it's Boeing.

I try and follow the continuing, seemingly never-ending Sea Launch saga as close as I can, and Boeing is the only creditor that still hasn't been paid, or written off their debt.

A lot of the smaller creditors got burned pretty badly in the first bankruptcy.

kq6ea · « **Reply #169 on:** 08/08/2016 06:27 am »

Well....here it is August, and still no details that were "promised" to be released at the end of April.

More smoke and mirrors, methinks.....

Steven Pietrobon · « **Reply #170 on:** 08/08/2016 06:48 am »

There's a company called Sea Launch Darwin Pty Ltd, registered on 13 November 2015. The registered office is in Perth, Western Australia.

https://www.australiacheck.com/business/27609290888/sea-launch-darwin-pty-limited

CameronD · « **Reply #171 on:** 08/08/2016 07:18 am »

Quote from: Steven Pietrobon on 08/08/2016 06:48 am

There's a company called Sea Launch Darwin Pty Ltd, registered on 13 November 2015. The registered office is in Perth, Western Australia.

https://www.australiacheck.com/business/27609290888/sea-launch-darwin-pty-limited

I presume that launches from international waters north of Darwin wouldn't be restricted by the Australian Government's Space Act.. would that be correct? If true, Launch Day might create some mighty interesting interplay with Coastwatch and the RAN.

RonM · « **Reply #172 on:** 08/08/2016 02:30 pm »

Quote from: CameronD on 08/08/2016 07:18 am

Quote from: Steven Pietrobon on 08/08/2016 06:48 am
There's a company called Sea Launch Darwin Pty Ltd, registered on 13 November 2015. The registered office is in Perth, Western Australia.

https://www.australiacheck.com/business/27609290888/sea-launch-darwin-pty-limited

I presume that launches from international waters north of Darwin wouldn't be restricted by the Australian Government's Space Act.. would that be correct? If true, Launch Day might create some mighty interesting interplay with Coastwatch and the RAN.

No, an Australian company would be restricted no matter where they launched from.

Quote from: SPACE ACTIVITIES ACT 1998 - SECT 4 Simplified outline of Act

An Australian national who carries on certain space activities outside Australia must also be covered by such an approval.

Quote from: SPACE ACTIVITIES ACT 1998 - SECT 8 Definitions

Australian national means:
(a) an Australian citizen; or
(b) a body incorporated by or under a law of the Commonwealth, of a State or of a Territory; or
(c) the Commonwealth, a State or a Territory.

Olaf · « **Reply #173 on:** 08/18/2016 05:41 pm »

http://sputniknews.com/science/20160818/1044403867/russia-boeing-sea-launch.html

Russian Space Corporation, US Boeing Reach Deal on Dispute Over Sea Launch

Steven Pietrobon · « **Reply #174 on:** 08/19/2016 05:32 am »

Not much information on what the resolution involves, but good to see this being settled.

Quote

"We have signed a preliminary agreement with Boeing to settle a dispute on 'Sea Launch,' in that context a court in the United States suspended all the activities to collect debts. Before the end of the year we are planning to sign a final agreement with Boeing, which should stipulate conditions of the [dispute's] settlement," Solntsev said, as quoted by the Russian Izvestia newspaper.

Olaf · « **Reply #175 on:** 08/21/2016 06:20 pm »

Some more information
http://spacenews.com/boeing-and-energia-negotiating-sea-launch-settlement/

CameronD · « **Reply #176 on:** 08/21/2016 11:23 pm »

Quote from: Steven Pietrobon on 08/19/2016 05:32 am

Not much information on what the resolution involves, but good to see this being settled.

I wonder where this leaves Sea Launch Darwin Pty Ltd? ..or are they just a place-holder in case something worked out favourably in Australia's direction??

Kabloona · « **Reply #177 on:** 08/22/2016 12:45 am »

Quote from: CameronD on 08/21/2016 11:23 pm

Quote from: Steven Pietrobon on 08/19/2016 05:32 am
Not much information on what the resolution involves, but good to see this being settled.

I wonder where this leaves Sea Launch Darwin Pty Ltd? ..or are they just a place-holder in case something worked out favourably in Australia's direction??

Since that article linked upthread specifically mentioned the Northern Territory government and the Australia-based investor hoping to bring Sea Launch to Darwin, it sounds like a good bet that Sea Launch Darwin is the entity they set up for buying out the Sea Launch assets.

http://www.ntnews.com.au/news/northern-territory/nt-government-working-to-bring-space-industry-to-territory/news-story/dd89fb368bbcdc37a0899c47d2e98340

Hopefully they're still interested, and the Boeing deal will clear the way for the sale. Maybe the agreement included a provision that Boeing would get some portion of the sale price to Sea Launch Darwin.

THeel01 · « **Reply #178 on:** 08/29/2016 06:00 pm »

Possible new first stage?

http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Russian_Carrier_Rocket_for_Sea_Launches_Will_Replace_Ukraines_Zenit_999.html

Kabloona · « **Reply #179 on:** 08/29/2016 07:31 pm »

Quote

Solntsev forecast earlier in the day the planned sale of the project by early 2017, with Russian investors among the leading candidates.

No mention of Australia?