SpaceX F9 : SES-10 with reuse of CRS-8 Booster SN/1021 : 2017-03-30 : DISCUSSION

[Welsh Dragon]

Yes, here in Europe we (used to) have a thing called worker's rights.

[rad]

Hey! What's happening with the vessels in the sea? Have they started heading back yet?

[macpacheco]

Hey! What's happening with the vessels in the sea? Have they started heading back yet?

There's a thread just for ASDS return:
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=42646.0

Don't discuss here, discuss there.

[Lar]

Это ещё цвето́чки, а я́годки впереди́.

"It's flowers and berries in front"  (blame Google Translate if not correct) ? is that a Russian aphorism for something along the lines of "you're just trying to make it look good?" or ??

Good summary of yesterday's flight and the implications for the future of space travel  http://www.space.com/36300-spacex-rocket-reflight-elon-musk-mars-colony.html

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/847999277381144577

How SpaceX's Historic Rocket Re-Flight Boosts Elon Musk's Mars Plan

By Mike Wall, Space.com Senior Writer | March 31, 2017 03:15pm ET

Link not quite right? Or Elon deleted it already?

Here's the direct link to the space.com article again (it's quoted above so apparently I just like to hear myself talk, but you knew that). If you find a better link to Elon's tweet please share (I retweet a lot of his stuff), thanks!!!!

http://www.space.com/36300-spacex-rocket-reflight-elon-musk-mars-colony.html

[vandersons]

"It's just the flowers for now, the berries are still to come" - closest translation I can come up with (my russian is a bit rusty).

[FutureSpaceTourist]

Link not quite right? Or Elon deleted it already?

Looks like it's been deleted <enter conspiracy theory here> 

[ulm_atms]

From the Update thread:

As of 18:57 UTC March 31, Space Track shows the following.

Falcon 9 R/B:  217 x 33,395 km x 26.31 deg
SES 10:  247 x 35,673 km x 26.18 deg

SFN gave a targeted 218 x 35,410 km x 26.2 deg insertion orbit. 

Makes me wonder if S2 burned to depletion.  That heavy of a bird would need about all the S2 has(especially with the S1 landing attempt).  If the track for S2 above was after sep and doesn't include any blow down....then John's "good enough" in the webcast was right and there was some underperforming experienced, but nothing way out of line. I just wouldn't think they would leave some performance on the table if they could help it.

[mme]

...

Europeans aren't good at the "competition" thing. Part of this probably comes from being in a culture where it is difficult to hire because it's difficult to fire. Most people aren't thinking "I'd better keep it polite because I might want a job with the other guy one day".

Ironically SES seems to compete just fine.

[gospacex]

"Economics of reuse is not proven", nothing to see here, move along

Puts on "Jim" hat: In all honesty, it hasn't been proven ... yet.  A rocket has been reused, but we don't have any insight into just how much it cost to do that.  Granted, it would cost more for the first time than it should in the long term, but we have no numbers yet on the economics of all this.

User "dglow" in another thread recalled some old quotes by Jim et al, of the same "technically true" type:

even if they land it, it doesn't mean they can reuse the stage.

They've tried twice for the barge and crashed both times, with a third attempt called off by rough waves.  Three prior return tests without the barge also had mixed results.  These experiments are bold and interesting, but they're not free.

Well, actually not-so-old quotes. Only 2 years ago

[gospacex]

I think it's clear by now  (and I've been thinking this for months now) that Arianespace is the true "SpaceX adversary" if there is such a thing, not ULA.  In fact, I'm not sure why ULA keeps getting singled out as SpX's nemesis.

Because only US domestic launch providers can launch DoD/NRO payloads. That's a big chunk of pie for (as of now) only SpaceX and ULA to fight over. Not Arianespace.

[gospacex]

The part of the Bruno quote that really got me was this one:

So it can only done on the portion of missions where the spacecraft is small and not going to an especially difficult orbit

Since when is a 5.2 metric ton spacecraft "small" and going to a geosynchronous transfer orbit "not especially difficult"?  Is there any reasonable way that this statement can be interpreted as anything but straight-up denial?  That's an honest question, I am open to hearing otherwise.

It's all relative.  Falcon 9 has so far lifted no more than 5.282 tonnes to GTO (GEO-~1800m/s) while recovering its first stage.  Even Falcon Heavy will only be able to boost 8 tonnes to GTO while recovering its lower stages.  ULA has a rocket (Delta 4 Heavy) that can lift up to 13.8 tonnes to the same orbit.

A single DIVH flight costs ~ $400M.
An entirely expendable flight of FH is going to be about x2 cheaper.

[gospacex]

Это ещё цвето́чки, а я́годки впереди́.

"It's flowers and berries in front"  (blame Google Translate if not correct) ? is that a Russian aphorism for something along the lines of "you're just trying to make it look good?" or ??

"These are merely flowers, berries will appear later". This means that what you already got is not the worst part, the worse part is ahead.

[cppetrie]

The part of the Bruno quote that really got me was this one:

So it can only done on the portion of missions where the spacecraft is small and not going to an especially difficult orbit

Since when is a 5.2 metric ton spacecraft "small" and going to a geosynchronous transfer orbit "not especially difficult"?  Is there any reasonable way that this statement can be interpreted as anything but straight-up denial?  That's an honest question, I am open to hearing otherwise.

It's all relative.  Falcon 9 has so far lifted no more than 5.282 tonnes to GTO (GEO-~1800m/s) while recovering its first stage.  Even Falcon Heavy will only be able to boost 8 tonnes to GTO while recovering its lower stages.  ULA has a rocket (Delta 4 Heavy) that can lift up to 13.8 tonnes to the same orbit.

A single DIVH flight costs ~ $400M.
An entirely expendable flight of FH is going to be about x2 cheaper.

Plus DIVH flies at a rate of less than 1 per year.  That doesn't suggest there is a very robust market for launching really heavy payloads. Nearly all have been NRO launches. A payload requiring a FH launch with recovery will be cheaper than the next alternative and anything that can't support recovery will still cost half of what the only other provider is charging. A FH launch with recovery is probably less cost to SpaceX than a F9 expendable. It's a win for SpaceX either way.

[cppetrie]

Это ещё цвето́чки, а я́годки впереди́.

"It's flowers and berries in front"  (blame Google Translate if not correct) ? is that a Russian aphorism for something along the lines of "you're just trying to make it look good?" or ??

"These are merely flowers, berries will appear later". This means that what you already got is not the worst part, the worse part is ahead.

But berries are delicious (the edible ones anyway). Why is that worse than the flowers? Seems better to me. Something along the lines of "these flowers portend tasty things to come".

[gospacex]

Это ещё цвето́чки, а я́годки впереди́.

"It's flowers and berries in front"  (blame Google Translate if not correct) ? is that a Russian aphorism for something along the lines of "you're just trying to make it look good?" or ??

"These are merely flowers, berries will appear later". This means that what you already got is not the worst part, the worse part is ahead.

But berries are delicious (the edible ones anyway). Why is that worse than the flowers? Seems better to me. Something along the lines of "these flowers portend tasty things to come".

No, the saying's meaning is as I indicated. I'm not guessing it, I know.

[cppetrie]

Это ещё цвето́чки, а я́годки впереди́.

"It's flowers and berries in front"  (blame Google Translate if not correct) ? is that a Russian aphorism for something along the lines of "you're just trying to make it look good?" or ??

"These are merely flowers, berries will appear later". This means that what you already got is not the worst part, the worse part is ahead.

But berries are delicious (the edible ones anyway). Why is that worse than the flowers? Seems better to me. Something along the lines of "these flowers portend tasty things to come".

No, the saying's meaning is as I indicated. I'm not guessing it, I know.

Sorry. I wasn't questioning your accuracy. Just commenting that the English translation doesn't really translate the meaning of the statement. That is usually the case with colloquialisms. The context that makes the saying meaningful doesn't translate along with the words.

Off-topic edit: the Internet really needs a sarcasm/not-serious font. I suggested to a friend once that it be similar to italics but angled the other way.

[Lar]

I think we need to understand what SG meant with that[1]... that things are gonna get tougher for Roscosmos?? or the converse, that things are going to get tougher for others as Russia ramps up something? I doubt the latter

1 - He does that a lot.

[RotoSequence]

I think we need to understand what SG meant with that[1]... that things are gonna get tougher for Roscosmos?? or the converse, that things are going to get tougher for others as Russia ramps up something? I doubt the latter

1 - He does that a lot.

I think he means with respect to SpaceX. It cost $300 million dollars to develop Falcon 9. It cost a billion dollars to get to the point they're ready to re-fly the first stage boosters after flying acceptably heavy payloads to GTO. Now they need to figure out how to keep those first stages flying indefinitely at low cost and how to accommodate any growth in payload mass and/or volume. The latter achievements look like they'll be a lot harder than the former.

[gospacex]

Это ещё цвето́чки, а я́годки впереди́.

The accent marks are used only when there is a need to indicate stressed vowels (e.g. in vocabularies or education books). In normal text they are not used. The letter "ё" is also customarily replaced by "е" because it can be guessed from the context.

Это еще цветочки, а ягодки впереди.

This particular saying is often shortened to the first half - the recipient is likely to recognize the saying even in the short form.

Это еще цветочки...

[AncientU]

Russia On SpaceX: That's Cute But We're Awesome Too:

    “We have every reason to believe that we can compete” with SpaceX and other companies in the global space industry, Peskov was quoted as saying by the state-run RIA Novosti news agency. He did not specify what exactly the government plans to do to compete.

    Russia’s state space corporation, Roscosmos, is being modernized right now, Peskov said. “The head of Roscomos, Igor Komarov, has reported to President Vladimir Putin that Russian specialists are working on cutting-edge technologies.”

    Russia, “homeland of [the first man in space Yuri] Gagarin,” has fallen 20 years behind Musk, Vadim Lukashevich, a prominent space expert who was dismissed from the Skolkovo, a state-backed research center, for criticizing Roscosmos’ reform efforts in 2015, wrote on Facebook Friday.

    “Today, the Presidential Space Council will discuss the main areas of development of the Russian space industry up to 2030, and this program has nothing in it about reusing [rockets],” Lukashevich wrote. “I’m genuinely ashamed for Roscosmos.”

Это ещё цвето́чки, а я́годки впереди́.

Это ещё цвето́чки, а я́годки впереди́.

"It's flowers and berries in front"  (blame Google Translate if not correct) ? is that a Russian aphorism for something along the lines of "you're just trying to make it look good?" or ??

"These are merely flowers, berries will appear later". This means that what you already got is not the worst part, the worse part is ahead.

Thanks.
Poignant to break the bad news in Cyrillic.