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LIVE: Atlas V 541 - NROL-67 - April 10, 2014
by
Galactic Penguin SST
on 08 Feb, 2014 16:30
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#1
by
William Graham
on 11 Feb, 2014 21:47
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Well the stacking of the Atlas V for this launch has already begun yesterday: http://www.spaceflightnow.com/atlas/nrol67/stacking.html
So any guesses about the payload? I'm betting on a next-generation ELINT satellite either bound for GSO or Molniya orbit...... 
I'd say Molniya ELINT, as that would fit fairly well with SBIRS HEO-3 being shipped for integration last June. It would also explain why this launch appeared to switch from Canaveral to Vandenberg and then back again - as a Molniya orbit launch could be performed from either coast - although that could also be explained as an error in the document(s) that listed it as going from VAFB.
The document which vapour_nudge posted in the NRO thread a while back listed a second 541 for L-42 in FY2017 (with both launches from VAFB). This suggests that L-67 isn't another one-off or rarely-launched type like another Misty or Prowler. The same document claims that it is a LEO launch, however I'm inclined to ignore that as I doubt ULA could be so careless as to publish the planned orbits of several NRO payloads.
The current-generation HEO ELINTs were launched in 2006 and 2008 - turning eight and six this year respectively. We don't know their design lives but based on the gaps between the 1990s launches and the timescale originally planned for the 2000s launches (which were both several years late), I'd estimate 10 years, plus or minus two. That would make L-67 a little early, but as its increased mass suggests a significant change from previous satellites - or a new satellite altogether - maybe it needs a bit more time for on-orbit testing.
I'm not entirely sure how similar the current satellites are to the three previous-generation ones. Although the earlier ones launched on much larger rockets (Titan-Centaurs), this could well have been due to the lack of an intermediate rocket - the next-biggest rocket available at the time would have been the Atlas IIAS, which had a lower payload capacity than the Atlas V 411 used in the 2008 launch. Launches of GEO satellites from the same era seem to be continuing. NROL-37 in 2015 seems early for a KH-11 replacement, so I'd assume it is the next Orion - although this cannot be said for certain since the launch site remains to be confirmed.
So in short I'd say expect the first launch of a new-generation HEO ELINT satellite, however we'll know more when it gets closer to launch and we get details of the window and ground track. I've made three posts speculating on the identity of this satellite, and in all three I've come to a different conclusion.
An aside, I still haven't seen a patch for this one. I'm wondering if the NRO are being cautious after the negative publicity they received for the L-39 patch
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#2
by
Jim
on 11 Feb, 2014 22:58
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An aside, I still haven't seen a patch for this one. I'm wondering if the NRO are being cautious after the negative publicity they received for the L-39 patch
They are
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#3
by
Galactic Penguin SST
on 12 Feb, 2014 09:10
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There is a launch window listed on the KSC status report on L2.
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#4
by
Galactic Penguin SST
on 20 Feb, 2014 06:48
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Apparently ULA is already selling T-shirts with the logos for this launch (and also the next DMSP launch too):
http://www.ulalaunchstore.com/nrol-67-mens-pocket-t-shirt/It isn't very clear, but apparently the logo includes a blue flying horse (Pegasus?) and the Latin words
In scientia opportunitas - "The Science of Opportunity" (?) Weird......unless it refers to a science package flying with it.... (NASA GSFC's TWINS-C? That would point the payload as going HEO Molniya a la Trumpet/Mercury......)
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#5
by
RonM
on 20 Feb, 2014 07:13
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Apparently ULA is already selling T-shirts with the logos for this launch (and also the next DMSP launch too): http://www.ulalaunchstore.com/nrol-67-mens-pocket-t-shirt/
It isn't very clear, but apparently the logo includes a blue flying horse (Pegasus?) and the Latin words In scientia opportunitas - "The Science of Opportunity" (?) Weird......unless it refers to a science package flying with it.... (NASA GSFC's TWINS-C? That would point the payload as going HEO Molniya a la Trumpet/Mercury......)
"The Science of Opportunity" refers to turning opportunity into a science, a good phrase for a real-time reconnaissance satellite.
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#6
by
William Graham
on 25 Feb, 2014 06:06
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This has turned up on ebay; it doesn't quite look right but the seller has been the first to post several earlier patches so I'm going to assume it is accurate until proven otherwise.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/AUTHENTIC-NEW-NRO-L-67-ATLAS-V-CCAFS-ULA-USAF-CLASSIFIED-SATELLITE-LAUNCH-PATCH-/281273349149(
http://www.webcitation.org/6Ne0x5hG1)
Obviously it is a poor quality scan, but the listing describes it as an embroidered patch which the image clearly isn't - the level of detail is too high - although I know that other memorabilia such as stickers are available so it's not impossible. There is also a spelling mistake on the patch.
Assuming this is the launch patch (from the Atlas logo, serial number and the lack of similarity with the glimpse we got of the payload patch from the ULA poster) the lack of text is unusual but not unheard of (L-15 had a similar amount, as did many older patches).
The motto is "forest [sic] fortuna adiuvat". I can only assume that it
should read "fortes fortuna adiuvat" which translates as "fortune favours the bold".
The dragon is the most striking element of the patch. One of the most common symbols on NRO patches, dragons have in the past often symbolised ELINT satellites and such patches have been recorded for both Trumpet and Orion launches. The angle at which the dragon's neck is craned could suggest that the satellite will be looking down from a high inclination - suggesting a Trumpet satellite - however this is tenuous.
It is worth noting the moon and clouds in the background. They could be indicating that the satellite is able to operate at night (i.e. suggesting that it is a radar imaging spacecraft), however this seems unlikely because I would not expect an AV541 from Canaveral to be used for such a launch.
The five stars around the edge of the patch are stylistically the same as those usually arranged in a V to represent the 5th Space Launch Squadron. In their arrangement here they could also represent five satellites in orbit, with the Dragon being a sixth; i.e. NROL-67 is the sixth Trumpet satellite.
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#7
by
edkyle99
on 27 Feb, 2014 23:39
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#8
by
satwatcher
on 06 Mar, 2014 09:56
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The Spaceflight Now launch schedule reports a launch time of 1805-1935 GMT.
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#9
by
Targeteer
on 06 Mar, 2014 22:46
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#10
by
wkann
on 15 Mar, 2014 01:41
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#11
by
Galactic Penguin SST
on 18 Mar, 2014 21:33
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#12
by
Targeteer
on 20 Mar, 2014 20:20
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From Facebook
United Launch Alliance
The NROL-67 mission will be launched for the National Reconnaissance Office in support of national defense. Launch is planned for Tuesday, March 25, at 2:48 p.m. EDT. The live webcast begins at 2:28 p.m. from
www.ulalaunch.com.
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#13
by
jacqmans
on 21 Mar, 2014 22:36
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The ULA Launch Readiness Review complete - we are "GO!" for #NROL67 launch on #AtlasV. Mar 25 launch is planned for 2:48 pm EDT
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#14
by
Targeteer
on 21 Mar, 2014 22:51
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#15
by
input~2
on 22 Mar, 2014 11:27
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NAVAREA IV 195/2014(11,25,26). (210919Z MAR 2014)
WESTERN NORTH ATLANTIC.
ROCKETS.
1. HAZARDOUS OPERATIONS 251848Z TO 252014Z MAR,
ALTERNATE 261844Z TO 262010Z MAR
IN AREAS BOUND BY:
A. 28-37N 080-36W, 28-38N 080-33W,
28-36N 079-20W, 28-29N 079-20W,
28-32N 080-33W, 28-33N 080-36W.
B. 28-28N 077-42W, 28-27N 077-13W,
28-23N 077-13W, 28-24N 077-42W.
C. 27-37N 069-22W, 27-24N 067-31W,
27-15N 067-31W, 27-31N 069-22W.
D. 23-09N 048-54W, 22-38N 047-02W,
22-32N 047-02W, 23-05N 048-54W.
2. CANCEL THIS MSG 262110Z MAR 14.
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#16
by
Galactic Penguin SST
on 22 Mar, 2014 22:12
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With this launch now pinpointing GEO (or maybe just GTO, but less likely) maybe it's the follow-on to the long-lived "Mercury" series, which hasn't seen a launch in 17 years (I wonder if the last ones are still active right now? It might be possible to see if they are drifting around the GEO band....). Should be interesting to track this bird once it launches!
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#17
by
Galactic Penguin SST
on 23 Mar, 2014 11:07
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Hmm....short fairing used.....
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#18
by
Skyrocket
on 23 Mar, 2014 11:29
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Hmm....short fairing used.....
If the satellite is of similar construction as the Trumpet Follow-On satellites (launched on Atlas-V(411)), the short fairing should be sufficient.
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#19
by
Star One
on 23 Mar, 2014 13:12
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With this launch now pinpointing GEO (or maybe just GTO, but less likely) maybe it's the follow-on to the long-lived "Mercury" series, which hasn't seen a launch in 17 years (I wonder if the last ones are still active right now? It might be possible to see if they are drifting around the GEO band....). Should be interesting to track this bird once it launches!
Aren't the Mentor/Orion satellites the replacement for that system?
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#20
by
William Graham
on 23 Mar, 2014 13:42
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With this launch now pinpointing GEO (or maybe just GTO, but less likely) maybe it's the follow-on to the long-lived "Mercury" series, which hasn't seen a launch in 17 years (I wonder if the last ones are still active right now? It might be possible to see if they are drifting around the GEO band....). Should be interesting to track this bird once it launches!
Aren't the Mentor/Orion satellites the replacement for that system?
Historically the NRO has had two separate series of GEO (or near-GEO) SIGINT satellites:
Canyon -> Chalet/Vortex -> Mercury
Rhyolite/Aquacade -> Magnum/Orion (the name Mentor seems to be apocryphal)
The Canyon series were used for triangulating radar signals, while the Rhyolite series are used to intercept communications.
The Integrated Overhead SIGINT Architecture (IOSA) programme was supposed to merge the functions of these two satellites into a single series of vehicles. I've seen conflicting reports as to whether this programme was abandoned, or whether more recent Orions have incorporated features from the other series.
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#21
by
Jim
on 23 Mar, 2014 13:58
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I thought Canyon -> Chalet/Vortex -> Mercury was comint from GSO
and jumpseat - trumpet was radarint from Molinya
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#22
by
William Graham
on 23 Mar, 2014 15:12
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I thought Canyon -> Chalet/Vortex -> Mercury was comint from GSO
and jumpseat - trumpet was radarint from Molinya
Jumpseat/Trumpet is indeed the Molniya orbit component of the NRO's SIGINT system. Off the top of my head I can't remember if they're COMINT or RADARINT.
I've always had the Rhyolite line down as COMINT, but I have seen Mercury described as COMINT before (and conversely the Rhyolite/Orion series described as RADARINT), so it is possible that they could be that way around.
In the last 20 years we have seen four main series of NRO SIGINT satellites;
* Intruder - LEO SIGINT (ship triangulation)
* Orion - GSO SIGINT (Rhyolite line)
* Mercury - GSO SIGINT (Canyon line)
* Trumpet - HEO/Molniya SIGINT
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#23
by
Skyrocket
on 23 Mar, 2014 15:21
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I thought Canyon -> Chalet/Vortex -> Mercury was comint from GSO
and jumpseat - trumpet was radarint from Molinya
Jumpseat/Trumpet is indeed the Molniya orbit component of the NRO's SIGINT system. Off the top of my head I can't remember if they're COMINT or RADARINT.
I've always had the Rhyolite line down as COMINT, but I have seen Mercury described as COMINT before (and conversely the Rhyolite/Orion series described as RADARINT), so it is possible that they could be that way around.
In the last 20 years we have seen four main series of NRO SIGINT satellites;
* Intruder - LEO SIGINT (ship triangulation)
* Orion - GSO SIGINT (Rhyolite line)
* Mercury - GSO SIGINT (Canyon line)
* Trumpet - HEO/Molniya SIGINT
The satellites of the Canyon and Chalet/Vortex series were in 24 h orbits (typically 30200 km × 40800 km × 9.00°), but not geostationary. This was a strong hint, that they were to triangulate emitter positions - hence the identification as RADARINT. The Mercury follow on series were true GSO satellites.
The Rhyolite / Orion series was true GSO from the beginning.
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#24
by
Targeteer
on 23 Mar, 2014 22:12
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Ted Molczans's pre-launch search TLEs and payload analysis
http://www.satobs.org/seesat/Mar-2014/0159.html"Some additional guesses:
I believe that this launch is the same one that was known for a time as AFSPC-2, which according to an unofficial manifest on NASASpaceFlight.com, was to employ an Atlas V-541. The USAF budgeted about $27.5 million to qualify the Atlas V extended mission kit (EMK) (aka GSO kit), which was to have first flown on AFSPC-2. The EMK enables the Centaur stage to operate 6 h instead of the standard 2 h, required for 3-burn direct insertion GEO missions. There are two common GEO launch profiles. In the first and most common, the launch vehicle's mission ends with insertion of the payload near the perigee of a geosynchronous transfer orbit, and the payload completes the remaining manoeuvres to reduce the inclination and circularize the orbit at GEO altitude, using a PKM, thrusters, or some combination. In the other profile, the upper stage performs all of the major manoeuvres to reach the final GEO orbit, leaving only minor adjustments for the payload.
With the exception of Rhyolite in the 1970s, NRO SIGINT satellites launched to Molniya or GEO, have relied on the upper stage to perform all of the manoeuvres to reach their final orbit. The only non-SIGINT NRO satellite to use this mode, was the SDS 1, during the 1970s and 80s.
The AFSPC-2 label later was assigned to AEHF-3, which employs the Atlas V-531 and does not require an EMK. About the same time, NROL-67 appeared on public manifests, employing an Atlas V-541, which I strongly suspect is the former AFSPC-2 vehicle and its EMK, which is strong evidence that it is the next generation GEO SIGINT.
The new spacecraft may share the same bus as the Trumpet-FO (Follow On) SIGINT, launched to Molniya from VAFB in 2006 and 2008: 2006-027A / 29249 on Delta IV-M (4,2), and 2008-010A / 32706 on Atlas V-411. Trumpet-FO satellites host the SBIRS-HEO sensors. I have roughly estimated their combined mass between 3,900 and 4,500 kg.
U.S. GEO SIGINTs typically operate in orbits initially inclined between 5 and 7 deg. Based on the mission planner's guide, the Atlas V 541 can directly insert about 3,850 kg into a 6 deg GEO orbit; the next smaller vehicle, 531, can insert about 3,400 kg, so the payload range would be 3,400 kg to 3,850 kg, which seems about right for a Trumpet Follow-On without the SBIRS sensor.
Fairing sizes disagree: Trumpet-FO employs 4 m fairings, NROL-67's is 5 m; however, the 3-burn insertion to GEO option is only available for the Atlas V-521, 531, 541 and 551, so the payload's dimensions may not have determined the fairing size."
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#25
by
Chris Bergin
on 24 Mar, 2014 11:18
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ULA:
The Launch Readiness Review was completed Friday for the National Reconnaissance Office (NROL-67) launch. The mission is set to liftoff on a ULA Atlas V rocket on Tuesday, March 25 from Space Launch Complex 41 at Cape Canaveral Air Force Station in Florida at 2:48 p.m. EDT. Today’s forecast shows a 40 percent chance of favorable weather conditions for launch.
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#26
by
Jim
on 24 Mar, 2014 13:16
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however, the 3-burn insertion to GEO option is only available for the Atlas V-521, 531, 541 and 551, so the payload's dimensions may not have determined the fairing size."
Not true
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#27
by
Galactic Penguin SST
on 24 Mar, 2014 13:29
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however, the 3-burn insertion to GEO option is only available for the Atlas V-521, 531, 541 and 551, so the payload's dimensions may not have determined the fairing size."
Not true
So is it available in all Atlas V versions? (Centaur now has 3.5 hours re-start capability anyway, thanks to GPS)
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#28
by
William Graham
on 24 Mar, 2014 18:23
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however, the 3-burn insertion to GEO option is only available for the Atlas V-521, 531, 541 and 551, so the payload's dimensions may not have determined the fairing size."
Not true
Five metre fairing is required for four boosters though.
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#29
by
Prober
on 24 Mar, 2014 18:35
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however, the 3-burn insertion to GEO option is only available for the Atlas V-521, 531, 541 and 551, so the payload's dimensions may not have determined the fairing size."
Not true
So is it available in all Atlas V versions? (Centaur now has 3.5 hours re-start capability anyway, thanks to GPS)
Can the Centaur go 6 hours with two RL-10's?
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#30
by
Jim
on 24 Mar, 2014 18:46
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however, the 3-burn insertion to GEO option is only available for the Atlas V-521, 531, 541 and 551, so the payload's dimensions may not have determined the fairing size."
Not true
So is it available in all Atlas V versions? (Centaur now has 3.5 hours re-start capability anyway, thanks to GPS)
Can the Centaur go 6 hours with two RL-10's?
It has nothing to do with number of engines, it is batteries, hydrazine and helium.
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#31
by
jacqmans
on 24 Mar, 2014 22:29
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Launch has been postponend at least 24 hr
The U.S. Air Force has delayed tomorrow’s Atlas 5 launch due to a “range instrumentation outage”
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#32
by
WHAP
on 24 Mar, 2014 23:09
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however, the 3-burn insertion to GEO option is only available for the Atlas V-521, 531, 541 and 551, so the payload's dimensions may not have determined the fairing size."
Not true
So is it available in all Atlas V versions? (Centaur now has 3.5 hours re-start capability anyway, thanks to GPS)
Can the Centaur go 6 hours with two RL-10's?
Why 2? This Centaur has only 1.
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#33
by
Chris Bergin
on 24 Mar, 2014 23:43
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Cape Canaveral Air Force Station, Fla. (March 24, 2014) – The launch of a United Launch Alliance Atlas V carrying the National Reconnaissance Office (NROL-67) payload has been delayed to no earlier than Wednesday, March 26. The 45th Space Wing range experienced an issue with a mandatory range asset needed to support the launch. The Atlas V and NROL-67 spacecraft have been secured. More information will be provided as it becomes available.
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#34
by
Artyom.
on 25 Mar, 2014 03:04
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#35
by
Star One
on 25 Mar, 2014 12:35
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however, the 3-burn insertion to GEO option is only available for the Atlas V-521, 531, 541 and 551, so the payload's dimensions may not have determined the fairing size."
Not true
Five metre fairing is required for four boosters though.
So the size of the fairing may be deceptive as far as the size of the payload is concerned?
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#36
by
gwiz
on 25 Mar, 2014 13:21
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I would suppose that the 5 m fairing allows better insulation to be fitted on the Centaur tanks for a long coast period, but this is just my guess.
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#37
by
Jim
on 25 Mar, 2014 13:37
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I would suppose that the 5 m fairing allows better insulation to be fitted on the Centaur tanks for a long coast period, but this is just my guess.
Not really, thicker insulation wouldn't affect the 4m that much. Anyways, I don't think it is done for 5m
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#38
by
Litsas
on 25 Mar, 2014 22:07
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Launch now NET Thursday, March 27th 2014.
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#39
by
cartman
on 25 Mar, 2014 22:23
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When is the latest this mission can launch without impacting the next mission from the Cape?
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#40
by
Chris Bergin
on 25 Mar, 2014 23:03
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ULA:
Cape Canaveral Air Force Station, Fla. (March 25, 2014) – The launch of a United Launch Alliance Atlas V carrying the National Reconnaissance Office (NROL-67) payload has been delayed to no earlier than Thursday, March 27. The additional day delay will allow the 45th Space Wing time to continue to work an issue with a mandatory range asset needed to support the launch. The Atlas V and NROL-67 spacecraft remain at Space Launch Complex-41. More information will be provided as it becomes available.
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#41
by
cartman
on 25 Mar, 2014 23:32
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It would not impact. It would move to the other side, if it came to it. The range issue itself, if not resolved in time, could delay both I would assume.
Thanks!
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#42
by
Jim
on 26 Mar, 2014 00:35
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It would not impact. It would move to the other side, if it came to it.
Not necessarily true.
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#43
by
Blackstar
on 26 Mar, 2014 13:33
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The satellites of the Canyon and Chalet/Vortex series were in 24 h orbits (typically 30200 km × 40800 km × 9.00°), but not geostationary. This was a strong hint, that they were to triangulate emitter positions - hence the identification as RADARINT. The Mercury follow on series were true GSO satellites.
The Rhyolite / Orion series was true GSO from the beginning.
Canyon was comint, as were its follow-ons.
Rhyolite and follow-ons were telint for ICBMs.
Jumpseat was for monitoring Soviet ABM radars.
All of them evolved a bit over time.
Should add that I was working on a Jumpseat article with some new information on the program's origins. Put that on the back burner. Richelson had a Canyon article a couple of years ago.
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#44
by
Chris Bergin
on 26 Mar, 2014 16:23
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Now April 10 NET, per L2.
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#45
by
Targeteer
on 26 Mar, 2014 16:52
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The satellites of the Canyon and Chalet/Vortex series were in 24 h orbits (typically 30200 km × 40800 km × 9.00°), but not geostationary. This was a strong hint, that they were to triangulate emitter positions - hence the identification as RADARINT. The Mercury follow on series were true GSO satellites.
The Rhyolite / Orion series was true GSO from the beginning.
Canyon was comint, as were its follow-ons.
Rhyolite and follow-ons were telint for ICBMs.
Jumpseat was for monitoring Soviet ABM radars.
All of them evolved a bit over time.
Should add that I was working on a Jumpseat article with some new information on the program's origins. Put that on the back burner. Richelson had a Canyon article a couple of years ago.
Google searches make life easy
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#46
by
mikes
on 26 Mar, 2014 17:28
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Sorry if I'm failing to see the obvious, but where on L2?
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#47
by
Targeteer
on 26 Mar, 2014 17:49
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#48
by
Blackstar
on 26 Mar, 2014 18:01
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Google searches make life easy
Yep.
I've met somebody who flew the early Canyons. Canyon was Lockheed. The info I have on Jumpseat is intriguing. I should find my draft article. Satellites were in the same class as Intelsat IV, SDS, Tacsat--all Hughes.
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#49
by
Chris Bergin
on 26 Mar, 2014 18:43
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ULA:
Cape Canaveral Air Force Station, Fla. (March 26, 2014) - The launch of a United Launch Alliance Atlas V rocket carrying the National Reconnaissance Office (NROL-67) payload has been delayed to no earlier than Thursday, April 10. Prior to the first launch attempt March 25, an issue developed with a 45th Space Wing mandatory range asset needed to support the launch. Tomorrow, the Atlas V will be rolled back to the Vertical Integration Facility and will be set to launch as soon as the range asset is able to support. More information will be provided as it becomes available.
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#50
by
mikes
on 26 Mar, 2014 18:57
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Thanks targeteer!
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#51
by
Star One
on 26 Mar, 2014 19:00
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The satellites of the Canyon and Chalet/Vortex series were in 24 h orbits (typically 30200 km × 40800 km × 9.00°), but not geostationary. This was a strong hint, that they were to triangulate emitter positions - hence the identification as RADARINT. The Mercury follow on series were true GSO satellites.
The Rhyolite / Orion series was true GSO from the beginning.
Canyon was comint, as were its follow-ons.
Rhyolite and follow-ons were telint for ICBMs.
Jumpseat was for monitoring Soviet ABM radars.
All of them evolved a bit over time.
Should add that I was working on a Jumpseat article with some new information on the program's origins. Put that on the back burner. Richelson had a Canyon article a couple of years ago.
Google searches make life easy
Thanks for that, interesting read. More informative than the Wikipedia entry.
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#52
by
brahmanknight
on 26 Mar, 2014 19:43
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Google searches make life easy
Yep.
I've met somebody who flew the early Canyons. Canyon was Lockheed. The info I have on Jumpseat is intriguing. I should find my draft article. Satellites were in the same class as Intelsat IV, SDS, Tacsat--all Hughes.
Come on, bro. Give us the Jumpseat piece, ASAP.
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#53
by
Targeteer
on 26 Mar, 2014 21:07
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Now April 10 NET, per L2.
That sound you heard was the hand grenade going off in the middle of this projected schedule...
NET March 25 26 27 - NRO L-67 - Atlas V 541 - Canaveral SLC-41 ~ 18:40 18:05-19:35
March 31 - Dragon SpX-3 (CRS3), All-Star (THEIA), Ho’oponopono-2, SporeSat, TSAT (TestSat-Lite), KickSat (with 104 Sprites), PhoneSat 2.5 - Falcon 9 v1.1 - Canaveral SLC-40 - 02:50
April 30 - Orbcomm G2 (x6) - Falcon 9 v1.1 - Canaveral SLC-40 (or mid-April)
May 1 6 - Cygnus Orb-2 (CRS2) - Antares-120 - MARS LP-0A - 19:44-19:49
May 7 - NRO L-33 - Atlas V 401 - Canaveral SLC-41
May 15 - GPS IIF SV-6 (SVN67) - Delta-IV-M+(4,2) - Canaveral SLC-37B
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#54
by
edkyle99
on 27 Mar, 2014 02:47
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Prior to the first launch attempt March 25, an issue developed with a 45th Space Wing mandatory range asset needed to support the launch.
Wonder where this "asset" is located, and what it is.
- Ed Kyle
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#55
by
Targeteer
on 27 Mar, 2014 04:44
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Great presentation I found on the support infrastructure for both the Eastern and Western ranges. The "asset" is on the Eastern Range Instrumentation slides but identified only on L2 for now.
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#56
by
Prober
on 27 Mar, 2014 12:18
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Great presentation I found on the support infrastructure for both the Eastern and Western ranges. The "asset" is on the Eastern Range Instrumentation slides but identified only on L2 for now.
This site is great you learn so much.
See Page 20
Launch delays not merely inconvenience
~$1M/day of US tax dollars for EELV launch scrub
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#57
by
Targeteer
on 27 Mar, 2014 17:01
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#58
by
WHAP
on 28 Mar, 2014 14:25
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Great presentation I found on the support infrastructure for both the Eastern and Western ranges. The "asset" is on the Eastern Range Instrumentation slides but identified only on L2 for now.
This site is great you learn so much.
See Page 20
Launch delays not merely inconvenience
~$1M/day of US tax dollars for EELV launch scrub
Pure spin. There is validity to that number, but not on a per-day basis.
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#59
by
Star One
on 30 Mar, 2014 19:33
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Insufficient maintenance and antiquated equipment due to a lack of US government funding and investment in infrastructure may be implicated.
The range outage for such an extended period of time reveals a clear vulnerability in US National Security planning.
The Air Force is also looking into the feasibility of reviving an inactive radar as a short term quick fix.
But in order to use the retired backup system, it will also have to re-validated to ensure utility and that all launch control and public safety requirements are fully met.
Simultaneously, the engineering team is recalculating launch trajectories and range requirements.
Such a revalidation process will also require an unknown period of time.
The full impact of putting these two launches on hold for the NRO and SpaceX is not known at this time.
Read more:
http://www.universetoday.com/110758/crucial-radar-outage-scrubs-us-national-security-and-spacex-launches-for-several-weeks-from-cape-canaveral/#ixzz2xTaCgB4G
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#60
by
William Graham
on 30 Mar, 2014 20:09
-
Great presentation I found on the support infrastructure for both the Eastern and Western ranges. The "asset" is on the Eastern Range Instrumentation slides but identified only on L2 for now.
This site is great you learn so much.
See Page 20
Launch delays not merely inconvenience
~$1M/day of US tax dollars for EELV launch scrub
Pure spin. There is validity to that number, but not on a per-day basis.
I'd assume if anything that figure would be for an actual scrub (i.e. terminal count underway, fuelling, etc), rather than just a slip.
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#61
by
WHAP
on 31 Mar, 2014 04:25
-
Great presentation I found on the support infrastructure for both the Eastern and Western ranges. The "asset" is on the Eastern Range Instrumentation slides but identified only on L2 for now.
This site is great you learn so much.
See Page 20
Launch delays not merely inconvenience
~$1M/day of US tax dollars for EELV launch scrub
Pure spin. There is validity to that number, but not on a per-day basis.
I'd assume if anything that figure would be for an actual scrub (i.e. terminal count underway, fuelling, etc), rather than just a slip.
You got it.
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#62
by
Blackstar
on 01 Apr, 2014 01:28
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#63
by
Blackstar
on 01 Apr, 2014 01:31
-
So I'm wondering why there is an NRO mission logo with a winged horse, and a 5SLS logo with a winged dragon. Wings seem to be a theme here.
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#64
by
WHAP
on 01 Apr, 2014 01:42
-
So I'm wondering why there is an NRO mission logo with a winged horse, and a 5SLS logo with a winged dragon. Wings seem to be a theme here.
Because a dragon without wings isn't really a dragon?
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#65
by
Prober
on 01 Apr, 2014 03:43
-
Hmmm a dragon killer with one of its legs missing.
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#66
by
kevin-rf
on 01 Apr, 2014 11:51
-
I think the leg is behind the body, you can sorta see the claw(toes?) sticking out forward of the front leg. I have noticed a tendency to use dragon wings on patches for missions we assume use large antennae's.
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#67
by
kevin-rf
on 01 Apr, 2014 11:54
-
btw. Is it me, or does that cloud behind the dragon remind anyone else of being sorta like Europe/Asia/Africa with a spotlight on europe and the middle east, or am I just seeing things?
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#68
by
Star One
on 01 Apr, 2014 12:24
-
btw. Is it me, or does that cloud behind the dragon remind anyone else of being sorta like Europe/Asia/Africa with a spotlight on europe and the middle east, or am I just seeing things?
Very true. Or it could just be a case of seeing things that aren't there because of pattern recognition.
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#69
by
Blackstar
on 01 Apr, 2014 14:12
-
Okay, I heard from someone who talked to the guy who developed the 5SLS patch, the one with the dragon. My colleague (who is trustworthy) thinks that the guy who designed the patch simply chose the dragon because it was cool, not because of any heritage with previous payloads.
I would also point out that the 5SLS patch is really an Air Force launch patch/logo, and not a payload patch/logo. It's the USAF guys who are responsible for the launch.
Simply put, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
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#70
by
Antares
on 02 Apr, 2014 03:19
-
Fortes Fortuna Adiuvat: Fortune Favors the Bold. Heard this so many times in the DoD I thought it would have been used by now. Odd aside: when I was typing "Fortuna Adiuvat" into Google search (since the first word was a typo), a couple of the autocompletes were in Cyrillic. Now they won't come back up. Would have been interesting to see what hits came up on those searches.
5 stars. 12 sides, every other side has a little superimposition on it that makes it a bit bigger.
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#71
by
William Graham
on 02 Apr, 2014 20:30
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#72
by
Chris Bergin
on 03 Apr, 2014 03:41
-
Just to note, I've added a couple of paras on the latest evaluations in L2 per the launch dates in the Atlas V article that just went on - especially as tomorrow's first attempt launch plays a part in how this will pan out.
So, April 10 is likely, pending first attempt launch on Thursday. CRS-3 is April 14, but could take the April 10 slot. Still a fluid situation. They have Range Radar assets arranged.
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2014/04/atlas-v-usafs-dmsp-5d3-f-19-satellite/
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#73
by
Confusador
on 03 Apr, 2014 05:37
-
Can someone explain the seven day spacing requirement?
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#74
by
Jim
on 03 Apr, 2014 11:24
-
Can someone explain the seven day spacing requirement?
Data review and travel.
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#75
by
Chris Bergin
on 03 Apr, 2014 21:36
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#76
by
Lurker Steve
on 03 Apr, 2014 21:38
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#77
by
russianhalo117
on 03 Apr, 2014 21:49
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#78
by
Chris Bergin
on 04 Apr, 2014 14:26
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#79
by
Jim
on 04 Apr, 2014 14:32
-
Why isn't the title
"Range Realigns – NROL-67 mission targets April 10" ;-)
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#80
by
kevin-rf
on 04 Apr, 2014 14:38
-
I fear Chris has move over to the SpaceX side
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#81
by
Chris Bergin
on 04 Apr, 2014 14:55
-
Why isn't the title
"Range Realigns – NROL-67 mission targets April 10" ;-)
Supply and Demand!
NROL-67 thread has 11,000 reads.
CRS-3's two threads have 350,000 reads.
(Plus we already had an Atlas V article leading, ULA's realignment was yesterday, SpaceX's was today, and "OMG IT'S SPACEX. DRAGONS AND PUPPIES FOR EVERYONE!!"
Don't worry "update only!" people, I'll moderate myself later!
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#82
by
Galactic Penguin SST
on 07 Apr, 2014 16:34
-
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#83
by
Chris Bergin
on 07 Apr, 2014 20:20
-
ULA:
Everything is moving forward for the National Reconnaissance Office (NROL-67) launch this Thursday. The mission is set to lift off on a ULA Atlas V rocket on Thursday, April 10 from Space Launch Complex 41 at Cape Canaveral Air Force Station in Florida at 1:45 p.m. EDT. Today’s forecast shows a 90 percent chance of favorable weather conditions for launch.
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#84
by
Targeteer
on 09 Apr, 2014 03:10
-
From Facebook
The ULA Launch Readiness Review for #NROL67 is complete and we are GO for launch this Thursday, April 10. Launch is planned for 1:45 pm EDT.
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#85
by
jacqmans
on 09 Apr, 2014 16:07
-
Nice photo from Ben Cooper, taken this morning.
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#86
by
Chris Bergin
on 09 Apr, 2014 17:18
-
Ah, would have thought they would be Ben Cooper's work. The release only said "United Launch Alliance". Let's give his site a link to hat tip!
http://www.launchphotography.com/ULA Release.
The United Launch Alliance Atlas V rocket rolled out this morning to Space Launch Complex 41 in preparation for tomorrow’s NROL-67 launch for the National Reconnaissance Office. Today’s forecast continues to show a 90 percent chance of favorable weather conditions for launch.
Cape Canaveral Air Force Station, Fla. (April 9, 2014) - A United Launch Alliance Atlas V rolls out to Space Launch Complex-41 with a National Reconnaissance Office payload. Launch is set for Thursday, April 10 at 1:45 p.m. EDT. Designated NROL-67, the mission is in support of national defense.
Photo Credit: United Launch Alliance
L-1: Wednesday, April 9
· 1:30 p.m.: Remote camera photographers meet at the Air Force Space and Missile History Center to be escorted to SLC-41
L-0: Thursday, April 10
· 12:15 p.m.: Media meet to be escorted to launch viewing location
Satellite Coordinates
ALL TIMES PACIFIC STANDARD TIME
BARS AND TONE – 12:55 P.M.
PROGRAM START – 1:25 P.M.
LAUNCH TIME – 1:45 P.M.
Transmission FOR digital HIGH definiton
SATELLITE: SES 2
TRANSPONDER: 21
BAND: C-Band Digital
ORBITAL POSITION: 87 degrees west
CARRIER: SES Americom
HD BANDWIDTH: 18 MHz (half transponder ‘AB’)
DOWNLINK FREQ: 4111 MHz (Horizontal)
UPLINK FREQ: 6336 MHz (Vertical)
SYMBOL RATE: 13
FEC: ľ
DATA RATE: 17.9705
DVBS-QPSK
MPEG-2
AUDIO EMBEDDED
Weather Forecast
Overall probability of violating weather constraints: 10%
Primary concern(s): Thick Clouds
Overall probability of violating weather constraints for 24 hour delay: 20%
Primary concern(s): Thick Clouds and Cumulus Clouds
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#87
by
mheney
on 09 Apr, 2014 20:53
-
Just want to verify the launch time - there are conflicting time zone designations:
ULA:
Everything is moving forward for the National Reconnaissance Office (NROL-67) launch this Thursday. The mission is set to lift off on a ULA Atlas V rocket on Thursday, April 10 from Space Launch Complex 41 at Cape Canaveral Air Force Station in Florida at 1:45 p.m. EDT. Today’s forecast shows a 90 percent chance of favorable weather conditions for launch.
and
ALL TIMES PACIFIC STANDARD TIME
BARS AND TONE – 12:55 P.M.
PROGRAM START – 1:25 P.M.
LAUNCH TIME – 1:45 P.M.
I'm a bit suspicious of the "PACIFIC STANDARD TIME" version, myself ...
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#88
by
Satori
on 10 Apr, 2014 10:19
-
Moved for live coverage!
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#89
by
input~2
on 10 Apr, 2014 11:31
-
WESTERN NORTH ATLANTIC.
ROCKETS.
1. HAZARDOUS OPERATIONS 101745Z TO 101910Z APR,
ALTERNATE 111741Z TO 111906Z APR
IN AREAS BOUND BY:
A. 28-37N 080-36W, 28-38N 080-33W,
28-36N 079-20W, 28-29N 079-20W,
28-32N 080-33W, 28-33N 080-36W.
B. 28-28N 077-42W, 28-27N 077-13W,
28-23N 077-13W, 28-24N 077-42W.
C. 27-37N 069-22W, 27-24N 067-31W,
27-15N 067-31W, 27-31N 069-22W.
D. 23-09N 048-54W, 22-38N 047-02W,
22-32N 047-02W, 23-05N 048-54W.
2. CANCEL THIS MSG 112006Z APR 14.//
Authority: EASTERN RANGE OP A6938 031235Z APR 14.
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#90
by
Chris Bergin
on 10 Apr, 2014 12:59
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#91
by
Jim
on 10 Apr, 2014 13:12
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Only have seen JUMPSEAT associated with radar, never have seen MERCURY/CANYON/VORTEX OR RHYOLITE/MAGNUM/ORION with it.
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#92
by
robertross
on 10 Apr, 2014 13:17
-
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#93
by
kevin-rf
on 10 Apr, 2014 13:22
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Is it still Thursday? That was an excellent nice and long article!
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#94
by
Star One
on 10 Apr, 2014 13:37
-
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#95
by
jacqmans
on 10 Apr, 2014 13:41
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#96
by
Satori
on 10 Apr, 2014 13:46
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#97
by
Skyrocket
on 10 Apr, 2014 14:06
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#98
by
Artyom.
on 10 Apr, 2014 14:10
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ULA @ulalaunchRocketSunrise: The AtlasV with NROL67 on the Space Launch Complex-41 launch pad earlier this morning
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#99
by
Skyrocket
on 10 Apr, 2014 14:12
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Only have seen JUMPSEAT associated with radar, never have seen MERCURY/CANYON/VORTEX OR RHYOLITE/MAGNUM/ORION with it.
As far as i know, the series had following primary purposes:
* Canyon / Chalet / Vortex / Magnum for communications
* Rhyolite / Aquacade / Magnum / Orion for missile telemetry
* Jumpseat / Trumpet for radar pinpointing
BTW: A good read on the Canyon series is "
Eavesdroppers in disguise" by Jeffrey T. Richelson.
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#100
by
Nick L.
on 10 Apr, 2014 14:49
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Weather is go for tanking.
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#101
by
jacqmans
on 10 Apr, 2014 14:54
-
ULA @ulalaunch
Weather continues to be 90% favorable for today's #NROL67 launch on an #AtlasV. Launch is scheduled for 1:45 pm EDT.
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#102
by
jacqmans
on 10 Apr, 2014 15:08
-
ULA @ulalaunch
The #NROL67 count has just entered a planned 30-min hold. This is the first of two planned holds in the count. #AtlasV
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#103
by
jacqmans
on 10 Apr, 2014 15:39
-
ULA @ulalaunch
The team has given the "Go" to proceed begin cryogenic fueling, and the countdown has resumed #AtlasV #NROL67
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#104
by
Chris Bergin
on 10 Apr, 2014 15:52
-
An astonishing feature article by William Graham. Make sure you share this on your social media platforms!
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2014/04/atlas-v-nrol-67-military-mission/
Great work!
Just a little nitpicking: The explosion shown is not from the Mercury launch, it was from the 1986 launch failure of a Titan-34D with the last Hexagon spy sat.
Corrected, thanks!
(To all, if there's a correction required in an article, it's much faster to PM me, as I'm the only one who publishes the articles and can change them. I'm also the one who adds the images, etc.).
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#105
by
SaxtonHale
on 10 Apr, 2014 17:03
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#106
by
Chris Bergin
on 10 Apr, 2014 17:18
-
ULA:
Fueling is underway for the launch this afternoon of a United Launch Alliance Atlas V rocket carrying a payload for the National Reconnaissance Office. The NROL-67 mission is set to lift off at 1:45 p.m. EDT from Space Launch Complex 41 at Cape Canaveral Air Force Station in Florida.
The team is not currently working any technical issues that would prohibit a launch today.
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#107
by
Chris Bergin
on 10 Apr, 2014 17:21
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#108
by
Chris Bergin
on 10 Apr, 2014 17:26
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#109
by
Chris Bergin
on 10 Apr, 2014 17:27
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#110
by
Chris Bergin
on 10 Apr, 2014 17:28
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Stressing the good things NROL does....probably on purpose after the giant space octopus patch!
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#111
by
Chris Bergin
on 10 Apr, 2014 17:28
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#112
by
Chris Bergin
on 10 Apr, 2014 17:29
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#113
by
Chris Bergin
on 10 Apr, 2014 17:30
-
Coverage will end with payload fairing jettison, as per usual for these NROL missions.
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#114
by
Chris Bergin
on 10 Apr, 2014 17:30
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#115
by
Chris Bergin
on 10 Apr, 2014 17:31
-
And there we go. BIH. Holing for 10 mins at T-4 mins.
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#116
by
Prober
on 10 Apr, 2014 17:34
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#117
by
Chris Bergin
on 10 Apr, 2014 17:34
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Dedication to a NROL guy who passed away.
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#118
by
Prober
on 10 Apr, 2014 17:34
-
with the "buy American" talk now anyone know how much that fairing costs?
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#119
by
Chris Bergin
on 10 Apr, 2014 17:35
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Solar radiation is acceptable for launch.
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#120
by
William Graham
on 10 Apr, 2014 17:35
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Interesting that they just acknowledged that L-24, 27 and 38 were comsats
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#121
by
SaxtonHale
on 10 Apr, 2014 17:35
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Dedication to a NROL guy who passed away.
Very touching.
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#122
by
Chris Bergin
on 10 Apr, 2014 17:37
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Coming up on polling to come out of the hold.
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#123
by
Chris Bergin
on 10 Apr, 2014 17:39
-
Polling to proceed with terminal count: All Go!
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#124
by
Chris Bergin
on 10 Apr, 2014 17:41
-
Out of the BIH.
T-4 mins and COUNTING.
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#125
by
Chris Bergin
on 10 Apr, 2014 17:42
-
Atlas tanks to flight pressure.
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#126
by
Chris Bergin
on 10 Apr, 2014 17:42
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FTS internal.
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#127
by
Chris Bergin
on 10 Apr, 2014 17:43
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Chopper on the left, getting out of there at speed!
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#128
by
Chris Bergin
on 10 Apr, 2014 17:43
-
Launch enable.
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#129
by
Chris Bergin
on 10 Apr, 2014 17:44
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That chopper is still real close!
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#130
by
Chris Bergin
on 10 Apr, 2014 17:44
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Range Green!
T-60 seconds
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#131
by
Chris Bergin
on 10 Apr, 2014 17:44
-
Go Atlas. Go Centaur. Go NROL-67!
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#132
by
Prober
on 10 Apr, 2014 17:44
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GO Atlas Go Centaur
Note the choppers in flight.
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#133
by
Chris Bergin
on 10 Apr, 2014 17:45
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#134
by
Chris Bergin
on 10 Apr, 2014 17:46
-
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#135
by
Chris Bergin
on 10 Apr, 2014 17:46
-
She's a beast in this config.
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#136
by
Chris Bergin
on 10 Apr, 2014 17:46
-
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#137
by
Chris Bergin
on 10 Apr, 2014 17:47
-
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#138
by
Chris Bergin
on 10 Apr, 2014 17:47
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#139
by
Chris Bergin
on 10 Apr, 2014 17:48
-
Centaur pressing for its role.
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#140
by
Chris Bergin
on 10 Apr, 2014 17:48
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#141
by
Star One
on 10 Apr, 2014 17:48
-
Interesting that they just acknowledged that L-24, 27 and 38 were comsats
Sorry I haven't got access to the live coverage at the moment so didn't hear exactly what was said, but that's a bit of a minor revelation to suddenly come out with.
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#142
by
Chris Bergin
on 10 Apr, 2014 17:49
-
Oops, they showed the payload! (It's generic of course
)
And that ends their coverage!
Good launch so far. Congrats.
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#143
by
Prober
on 10 Apr, 2014 17:49
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Can someone confirm this is the same config to be used for crew only a dual Centaur?
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#144
by
Galactic Penguin SST
on 10 Apr, 2014 17:51
-
We might be in for a long wait for mission success - if it's direct-to-geostationary it will take at least 4 hours to S/C sep.
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#145
by
Chris Bergin
on 10 Apr, 2014 17:51
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So what was that chopper all about? Someone filming for a ULA promo video? I'd sell my grandma to have seen the launch from that angle.
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#146
by
Targeteer
on 10 Apr, 2014 17:54
-
Interesting that they just acknowledged that L-24, 27 and 38 were comsats
Sorry I haven't got access to the live coverage at the moment so didn't hear exactly what was said, but that's a bit of a minor revelation to suddenly come out with.
He was described as a communications specialist with support to ground operations emphasized. I had the impression he directly supported the three launches mentioned that happened to be likely SDS comm satellites.
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#147
by
aga
on 10 Apr, 2014 17:54
-
Can someone confirm this is the same config to be used for crew only a dual Centaur?
shouldnt it be 402/412 for crew?
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#148
by
dsmillman
on 10 Apr, 2014 17:54
-
Didn't coverage of the launch on previous NRO payloads continue until Centaur ignition?
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#149
by
Star One
on 10 Apr, 2014 17:55
-
Interesting that they just acknowledged that L-24, 27 and 38 were comsats
Sorry I haven't got access to the live coverage at the moment so didn't hear exactly what was said, but that's a bit of a minor revelation to suddenly come out with.
He was described as a communications specialist with support to ground operations emphasized. I had the impression he directly supported the three launches mentioned that happened to be likely SDS comm satellites.
Thank you for that further info.
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#150
by
William Graham
on 10 Apr, 2014 17:56
-
Didn't coverage of the launch on previous NRO payloads continue until Centaur ignition?
On 400-series launches fairing sep occurs just after Centaur ignition. On NRO missions coverage usually ends with fairing separation regardless of when it occurs in the flight.
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#151
by
Prober
on 10 Apr, 2014 17:58
-
So what was that chopper all about? Someone filming for a ULA promo video? I'd sell my grandma to have seen the launch from that angle.
Film at eleven (bed time news joke )
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#152
by
Artyom.
on 10 Apr, 2014 18:01
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#153
by
Chris Bergin
on 10 Apr, 2014 18:03
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#154
by
Rocket Science
on 10 Apr, 2014 21:09
-
Congrats, well done ULA!
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#155
by
Chris Bergin
on 10 Apr, 2014 21:58
-
ULA note mission success!
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#156
by
Chris Bergin
on 10 Apr, 2014 22:00
-
Cape Canaveral Air Force Station, Fla. (April 10, 2014) – United Launch Alliance (ULA) successfully launched the second mission in just seven days with the lift off of an Atlas V rocket carrying a payload for the National Reconnaissance Office. The mission lifted off from Space Launch Complex-41 on schedule on April 10 at 1:45 p.m. EDT. On April 3, ULA launched an Air Force weather satellite from Vandenberg Air Force Base, Calif.
Photo Credit: United Launch Alliance
United Launch Alliance Successfully Launches Second Mission in
Just Seven Days
Cape Canaveral Air Force Station, Fla ., (April 10, 2014) – A United Launch Alliance (ULA) Atlas V rocket carrying a payload for the National Reconnaissance Office (NRO) lifted off from Space Launch Complex-41 on April 10 at 1:45 p.m. EDT. Designated NROL-67, the mission is in support of national defense.
“We are honored to deliver this national security asset to orbit together with our customers the NRO Office of Space Launch and the Air Force,” said Jim Sponnick, ULA vice president, Atlas and Delta Programs. “Successfully launching two missions from two different coasts in just seven days is a testament to the team’s one-launch-at-a-time focus and ULA’s commitment to mission success and schedule reliability.”
This mission was launched aboard an Atlas V Evolved Expendable Launch Vehicle (EELV) 541 configuration vehicle, which includes a 5-meter diameter payload fairing along with four Aerojet Rocketdyne solid rocket motors attached to the Atlas booster. The Atlas booster for this mission was powered by the RD AMROSS RD-180 engine and the Centaur upper stage was powered by a single Aerojet Rocketdyne RL10A engine.
ULA's next launch is the Delta IV GPS IIF-6 mission for the United States Air Force scheduled for May 15 from Space Launch Complex-37 at Cape Canaveral Air Force Station Fla.
The EELV program was established by the United States Air Force to provide assured access to space for Department of Defense and other government payloads. The commercially developed EELV program supports the full range of government mission requirements, while delivering on schedule and providing significant cost savings over the heritage launch systems.
With more than a century of combined heritage, United Launch Alliance is the nation’s most experienced and reliable launch service provider. ULA has successfully delivered more than 80 satellites to orbit that provide critical capabilities for troops in the field, aid meteorologists in tracking severe weather, enable personal device-based GPS navigation and unlock the mysteries of our solar system. Reliable launch, real-world benefits.
For more information on ULA, visit the ULA website at
www.ulalaunch.com, or call the ULA Launch Hotline at 1-877-ULA-4321 (852-4321). Join the conversation at
www.facebook.com/ulalaunch and twitter.com/ulalaunch
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#157
by
Galactic Penguin SST
on 10 Apr, 2014 23:06
-
What an amazing rocket the Atlas V is!
Congratulations for the ULA team to pull off 2 successful launches in 7 days!
P.S. The announcement time fits in with this being a direct-to-GSO launch.
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#158
by
D_Dom
on 10 Apr, 2014 23:30
-
So what was that chopper all about?
Having been in the situation of filming many a launch from a helicopter I can tell you it is all good fun unless and until the rocket goes "hardware rich". I quickly became focused on two questions;
"how fast is that shrap moving" and
"how far is far enough between us and all that drama"
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#159
by
Lars_J
on 11 Apr, 2014 01:05
-
Can someone confirm this is the same config to be used for crew only a dual Centaur?
shouldnt it be 402/412 for crew?
Indeed. The DC would use no solids (402), and CST-100 would use 1 solid (412). This was a 541 configuration.
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#160
by
Lee Jay
on 11 Apr, 2014 01:16
-
What an amazing rocket the Atlas V is!
Congratulations for the ULA team to pull off 2 successful launches in 7 days!
Indeed! And those solids really help it hop of the pad, don't they!
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#161
by
kevin-rf
on 11 Apr, 2014 01:42
-
Indeed! And those solids really help it hop of the pad, don't they!
Watching the sideways side step of the v411 is more fun
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#162
by
Jim
on 11 Apr, 2014 02:45
-
Lets see if this works. This is from an iPhone. Location unknown
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#163
by
Lee Jay
on 11 Apr, 2014 02:48
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Lets see if this works. This is from an iPhone. Location unknown
Ripping!
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#164
by
Artyom.
on 11 Apr, 2014 02:51
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#165
by
jcm
on 11 Apr, 2014 05:43
-
ULA note mission success!
If I understand the forum timetag behaviour correctly, you posted this at 2158 GMT which was 4h15 min after launch - this is about 1.5 hours EARLIER than one might normally expect for a 3-burn GEO delivery, but is consistent with a fast ascent using
a higher-than-normal transfer orbit apogee, say 200 x 40000 km, and a third burn at around GEO altitude before apogee was
reached. So I was originally surprised by the early time of this announcement, but I guess it's ok. Another implication
is that if perigee was over the equator (which doesn't have to be true) the inclination might be in the 5-7 degree range
as we've seen for some past SIGINT missions, rather than being 0 to 1 deg.
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#166
by
baldusi
on 11 Apr, 2014 14:48
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Congratulations again on making it look so easy one such a tight schedule.
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#167
by
LouScheffer
on 11 Apr, 2014 16:27
-
Yet another excellent performance by ULA.
I have a questions with no precise answer, I'm sure. How much of this recent performance is top-down, and how much bottom up?
By top-down, I mean management considering that reliability and dependability are their competitive strong points, and assigning extra people and resources to make absolutely sure everything is ready on the first go. By bottom up, I mean employees believing that there is now significant competition, and pressing harder to make sure everything is OK so their jobs and company survive. (I saw this at HP, long ago. They cut back to 9 days every two weeks, at 90% pay, since their sales were down. But production went up, not down, since it was clear there was a real problem, which led people to work more than 10% harder/faster/more efficiently.)
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#168
by
Jim
on 11 Apr, 2014 16:34
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There is no way to tell since there has been no change in performance. How do you better 100%?
Increased flight rate is done by deliberate action. The processes are analyzed and duplicate or little value added ones are eliminated or reduced or some are reordered to find efficiencies.
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#169
by
Nick L.
on 11 Apr, 2014 16:50
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Yet another excellent performance by ULA.
I have a questions with no precise answer, I'm sure. How much of this recent performance is top-down, and how much bottom up?
By top-down, I mean management considering that reliability and dependability are their competitive strong points, and assigning extra people and resources to make absolutely sure everything is ready on the first go. By bottom up, I mean employees believing that there is now significant competition, and pressing harder to make sure everything is OK so their jobs and company survive. (I saw this at HP, long ago. They cut back to 9 days every two weeks, at 90% pay, since their sales were down. But production went up, not down, since it was clear there was a real problem, which led people to work more than 10% harder/faster/more efficiently.)
It's both, but it's not a recent change. The management knows that reliability and schedule performance are the company's edge, and the engineers and technicians work hard to maintain that edge and find new ways to enhance it - those things haven't changed since before ULA's formation. The "we're one failure away from going out of business"/"you're only as good as your last launch" mindset has been with ULA and its ancestor companies since the AC-70, -71, and -74 failures.
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#170
by
Nick L.
on 11 Apr, 2014 17:24
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GoPro view from the pad (always love these):
Credit: Matthew Travis
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#171
by
Blackstar
on 11 Apr, 2014 17:37
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The reliability is not an accident. It is a planned outcome.
Go back in history a bit, to the 1990s. August 1998 there was a Titan IV failure with a classified satellite. Then in April 1999 there were two Titan IV failures involving DSP and Milstar satellites, both left in useless orbits. Add those three failures together and the loss was billions of dollars (Jim may know the total, but I seem to remember that the dollar amount was publicly revealed, and it was in the $3-$4 billion range, including the rockets). USAF commissioned an investigation, led by Tom Young, who is kinda the go-to guy for this stuff:
http://www.spacedaily.com/news/launchers-99p.html"To sum up months of work, we found problems in accountability, quality, subcontract/supplier management and cost emphasis," said A. Thomas Young, the former president and chief operating officer of Martin Marietta Corp., who chaired the panel."One of the primary conclusions of the investigation was that USAF had gotten sloppy and allowed their contractors to get sloppy. There were a lot of reasons for this, but there had been a shift in oversight responsibility during the 1990s. USAF had decided to save costs by dismissing a lot of its civilian in-house acquisition oversight. They sent a lot of people packing (I think that many of them were at Aerospace Corporation). The idea was that they could let the contractors self-monitor their performance and report on how they were doing. "We're doing everything right!" was the standard response.
This report sent some shockwaves through USAF and DoD, and the lesson that they learned was that it was stupid to save a few tens of millions (or even over $100 million) a year when they were sticking billion dollar satellites atop rockets that were blowing up.
Spend more money, achieve high reliability became the mantra.
And that legacy--billions of dollars lost after efforts to reduce costs, a scathing report, and a determined response to fix things--is why we got this:
http://spacenews.com/article/military-space/39832shelton-fires-back-at-spacexShelton Fires Back at SpaceXBy Irene Klotz | Mar. 12, 2014
CAPE CANAVERAL, Fla. — The head of Air Force Space Command has a response to Space Exploration Technologies Corp. CEO Elon Musk, who, during a spirited March 7 Senate hearing, asked why if SpaceX’s rockets “are good enough for NASA, are they not good enough for the Air Force?
________
So, when ULA achieves high reliability, it's because they're aiming for it. And they're getting paid extra for it. Now you can argue that USAF is paying too much, and you can argue that there's an opportunity cost to paying too much, but I'm simply pointing out that there's a legacy here. There's a reason.
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#172
by
LouScheffer
on 11 Apr, 2014 17:59
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There is no way to tell since there has been no change in performance. How do you better 100%?
Performance *has* improved, by not having technical issues delaying launches, even if the issues ultimately are successfully resolved. For example:
Three times in the history of the Atlas 5 program has a rocket been forced to roll back after a scrub. Those instances were caused by technical troubles that required hardware removal-and-replacement jobs to be performed in the 30-story-tall VIF.
The previous rollbacks occurred on the Hellas Sat mission in 2003 to replace data instrumentation unit, the WGS 2 flight in 2009 to replace a leaky liquid oxygen valve and Intelsat 14 also in 2009 to replace an ordnance control assembly.
From
http://spaceflightnow.com/atlas/av030/muos1status3.html
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#173
by
Jim
on 11 Apr, 2014 18:22
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Performance *has* improved, by not having technical issues delaying launches, even if the issues ultimately are successfully resolved. For example:
Too small of sample and those issues were with subcontractor hardware.
Also, the range is a "supplier" and it forced a rollback for this mission
MAVEN had a rollback issue that occurred during WDR.
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#174
by
kevin-rf
on 11 Apr, 2014 18:28
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At least no one dropped a clipboard
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#175
by
William Graham
on 11 Apr, 2014 18:39
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ULA note mission success!
If I understand the forum timetag behaviour correctly, you posted this at 2158 GMT which was 4h15 min after launch - this is about 1.5 hours EARLIER than one might normally expect for a 3-burn GEO delivery, but is consistent with a fast ascent using
a higher-than-normal transfer orbit apogee, say 200 x 40000 km, and a third burn at around GEO altitude before apogee was
reached. So I was originally surprised by the early time of this announcement, but I guess it's ok. Another implication
is that if perigee was over the equator (which doesn't have to be true) the inclination might be in the 5-7 degree range
as we've seen for some past SIGINT missions, rather than being 0 to 1 deg.
It is also possible that the "successful launch" announcement was made before the final burn - I believe that has happened before on NRO launches. I'd imagine if that were the case we'd probably be left with a near-GEO Centaur, so hopefully SeeSat will be able to shed some light on it before too long.
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#176
by
WHAP
on 12 Apr, 2014 05:53
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ULA note mission success!
If I understand the forum timetag behaviour correctly, you posted this at 2158 GMT which was 4h15 min after launch - this is about 1.5 hours EARLIER than one might normally expect for a 3-burn GEO delivery, but is consistent with a fast ascent using
a higher-than-normal transfer orbit apogee, say 200 x 40000 km, and a third burn at around GEO altitude before apogee was
reached. So I was originally surprised by the early time of this announcement, but I guess it's ok. Another implication
is that if perigee was over the equator (which doesn't have to be true) the inclination might be in the 5-7 degree range
as we've seen for some past SIGINT missions, rather than being 0 to 1 deg.
It is also possible that the "successful launch" announcement was made before the final burn - I believe that has happened before on NRO launches. I'd imagine if that were the case we'd probably be left with a near-GEO Centaur, so hopefully SeeSat will be able to shed some light on it before too long.
I don't believe you'd ever see ULA announcing mission success before spacecraft separation.
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#177
by
William Graham
on 12 Apr, 2014 09:06
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ULA note mission success!
If I understand the forum timetag behaviour correctly, you posted this at 2158 GMT which was 4h15 min after launch - this is about 1.5 hours EARLIER than one might normally expect for a 3-burn GEO delivery, but is consistent with a fast ascent using
a higher-than-normal transfer orbit apogee, say 200 x 40000 km, and a third burn at around GEO altitude before apogee was
reached. So I was originally surprised by the early time of this announcement, but I guess it's ok. Another implication
is that if perigee was over the equator (which doesn't have to be true) the inclination might be in the 5-7 degree range
as we've seen for some past SIGINT missions, rather than being 0 to 1 deg.
It is also possible that the "successful launch" announcement was made before the final burn - I believe that has happened before on NRO launches. I'd imagine if that were the case we'd probably be left with a near-GEO Centaur, so hopefully SeeSat will be able to shed some light on it before too long.
I don't believe you'd ever see ULA announcing mission success before spacecraft separation.
I've seen it before. To give one example from a past thread here, the "successful launch" press release for NROL-26 was posted an hour after liftoff. Spacecraft separation occurred in GSO so there is no way powered flight could have been completed before it was announced in that case. I think it is at least possible that the same is true here.
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#178
by
edkyle99
on 12 Apr, 2014 16:34
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GoPro view from the pad (always love these):
Interesting to see - and hear - the big spherical LC 41 LOX tank venting immediately after liftoff. Does anyone know if the entire tank load is vented away after a liftoff?
- Ed Kyle
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#179
by
WHAP
on 12 Apr, 2014 16:59
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GoPro view from the pad (always love these):
Interesting to see - and hear - the big spherical LC 41 LOX tank venting immediately after liftoff. Does anyone know if the entire tank load is vented away after a liftoff?
- Ed Kyle
No!!!
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#180
by
input~2
on 12 Apr, 2014 19:09
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Payload designated as US-250
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#181
by
WHAP
on 12 Apr, 2014 21:07
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ULA note mission success!
If I understand the forum timetag behaviour correctly, you posted this at 2158 GMT which was 4h15 min after launch - this is about 1.5 hours EARLIER than one might normally expect for a 3-burn GEO delivery, but is consistent with a fast ascent using
a higher-than-normal transfer orbit apogee, say 200 x 40000 km, and a third burn at around GEO altitude before apogee was
reached. So I was originally surprised by the early time of this announcement, but I guess it's ok. Another implication
is that if perigee was over the equator (which doesn't have to be true) the inclination might be in the 5-7 degree range
as we've seen for some past SIGINT missions, rather than being 0 to 1 deg.
It is also possible that the "successful launch" announcement was made before the final burn - I believe that has happened before on NRO launches. I'd imagine if that were the case we'd probably be left with a near-GEO Centaur, so hopefully SeeSat will be able to shed some light on it before too long.
I don't believe you'd ever see ULA announcing mission success before spacecraft separation.
I've seen it before. To give one example from a past thread here, the "successful launch" press release for NROL-26 was posted an hour after liftoff. Spacecraft separation occurred in GSO so there is no way powered flight could have been completed before it was announced in that case. I think it is at least possible that the same is true here.
Yeah, you really have to read the fine print. This release talks about getting to orbit, while the L-26 release did not.
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#182
by
edkyle99
on 19 Apr, 2014 00:28
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GoPro view from the pad (always love these):
Interesting to see - and hear - the big spherical LC 41 LOX tank venting immediately after liftoff. Does anyone know if the entire tank load is vented away after a liftoff?
- Ed Kyle
No!!!
So they are just venting the lines in this video?
- Ed Kyle
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#183
by
WHAP
on 19 Apr, 2014 13:29
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GoPro view from the pad (always love these):
Interesting to see - and hear - the big spherical LC 41 LOX tank venting immediately after liftoff. Does anyone know if the entire tank load is vented away after a liftoff?
- Ed Kyle
No!!!
So they are just venting the lines in this video?
- Ed Kyle
They are venting the tank at that point. What did you mean by the word "load"? To me, that sounds like you're talking about liquid.
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#184
by
edkyle99
on 19 Apr, 2014 14:57
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They are venting the tank at that point. What did you mean by the word "load"? To me, that sounds like you're talking about liquid.
Liquid oxygen will completely boil off into vapor if the tank vent is left open indefinitely, but what I suspect is happening in the video is that the extra pressure that is allowed to build up in the tank to move propellant to the launch vehicle is being released post-launch. Once the pressure drops to a nominal storage value, the vent will close. Maybe.
I would like to know more about the launch pad LOX storage sphere properties. How long can LOX be stored there, etc?
- Ed Kyle
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#185
by
Antares
on 20 Apr, 2014 04:22
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I would imagine there are KSC docs from LC-39 that are already public or could be FOIA'd with that information. It's pretty simple physics, with engineering well known in many industries.
