Author Topic: Dream Chaser's European deal points to multi-role ambitions  (Read 51462 times)

Offline Altonity

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Re: Dream Chaser's European deal points to multi-role ambitions
« Reply #100 on: 01/15/2014 01:27 PM »
I really hope that this is one of those hundred studies that becomes reality and we will see DC in some ESA action. If SNC doesn't get commercial crew contract they may find new business opportunities with this.

Online Chris Bergin

SNC pass Milestone 7 for CCiCAP.

Allow me to write an article on this, as opposed to falling over each other to post a link to a site that copies and pastes the press release, or I'll come round to your house and tip over a table in disgust or something ;)

Offline Jim

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Re: Dream Chaser's European deal points to multi-role ambitions
« Reply #102 on: 01/16/2014 06:21 PM »

The Atlas V has 9 flights scheduled for 2014.  All of them are US Government launches.

No, there is WorldView 3

Online rcoppola

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Re: Dream Chaser's European deal points to multi-role ambitions
« Reply #103 on: 01/16/2014 06:54 PM »
And frankly what does it matter if all their launches or most of them are for the Government. Who else was supposed to launch our planetary missions like curiosity or our critically important spy, weather and Armed Services Communications Sats.?

And now enter SpaceX that will add some competition for many providers including ULA to become more flexible on costs and all that implies. It's a good thing. But man oh man, can we give ULA a break once and a while?

Let's see how competitive SNC's proposal is to NASA for CC with regards to flying on an AtlasV.  I hope ULA finds a way to dramatically lower costs. We need a strong and vibrant AtlasV family of launchers along with the F9 to ensure we have cost effective and reliable access to space for our crews and cargo.

Also, I suspect the timing of much of SNC's latest globe trotting has more to do with their projections on where they will fit in with the August CC selections.
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Offline BrightLight

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Re: Dream Chaser's European deal points to multi-role ambitions
« Reply #104 on: 01/16/2014 07:00 PM »
SNC pass Milestone 7 for CCiCAP.

Allow me to write an article on this, as opposed to falling over each other to post a link to a site that copies and pastes the press release, or I'll come round to your house and tip over a table in disgust or something ;)
You are free to come to my house and tip over a table - although you won't get any beer from me.

Offline Star One

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Re: Dream Chaser's European deal points to multi-role ambitions
« Reply #105 on: 01/16/2014 07:03 PM »

And frankly what does it matter if all their launches or most of them are for the Government. Who else was supposed to launch our planetary missions like curiosity or our critically important spy, weather and Armed Services Communications Sats.?

And now enter SpaceX that will add some competition for many providers including ULA to become more flexible on costs and all that implies. It's a good thing. But man oh man, can we give ULA a break once and a while?

Let's see how competitive SNC's proposal is to NASA for CC with regards to flying on an AtlasV.  I hope ULA finds a way to dramatically lower costs. We need a strong and vibrant AtlasV family of launchers along with the F9 to ensure we have cost effective and reliable access to space for our crews and cargo.

Also, I suspect the timing of much of SNC's latest globe trotting has more to do with their projections on where they will fit in with the August CC selections.

I've never quite got why it seems so popular to run ULA down.

Offline faramund

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Re: Dream Chaser's European deal points to multi-role ambitions
« Reply #106 on: 01/16/2014 07:22 PM »

And frankly what does it matter if all their launches or most of them are for the Government. Who else was supposed to launch our planetary missions like curiosity or our critically important spy, weather and Armed Services Communications Sats.?

And now enter SpaceX that will add some competition for many providers including ULA to become more flexible on costs and all that implies. It's a good thing. But man oh man, can we give ULA a break once and a while?

Let's see how competitive SNC's proposal is to NASA for CC with regards to flying on an AtlasV.  I hope ULA finds a way to dramatically lower costs. We need a strong and vibrant AtlasV family of launchers along with the F9 to ensure we have cost effective and reliable access to space for our crews and cargo.

Also, I suspect the timing of much of SNC's latest globe trotting has more to do with their projections on where they will fit in with the August CC selections.

I've never quite got why it seems so popular to run ULA down.

I think its mainly their launch costs, and the way they have been increased over time. But I also think that that's what usually happens with monopolies. However it now sounds like they are becoming more efficient now that they are under more competition. Who knows, over time they might even regain the positive aspects of how they were earlier thought of.

Offline simonbp


I don't think it is unreasonable for ESA to conduct a study to see if Ariane V is cheaper than Atlas with DC.   


What says SNC is going to allow DC to fly on Ariane?  SNC may not want to sell DC's but just seats on DC.

I believe it was mentioned at the press conference that they (ESA+DLR+SNC) would study the idea. So, SNC is apparently potentially open to the idea, but it's not anything more than an idea right now.

Offline Rocket Science

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Re: Dream Chaser's European deal points to multi-role ambitions
« Reply #108 on: 01/16/2014 08:48 PM »

And frankly what does it matter if all their launches or most of them are for the Government. Who else was supposed to launch our planetary missions like curiosity or our critically important spy, weather and Armed Services Communications Sats.?

And now enter SpaceX that will add some competition for many providers including ULA to become more flexible on costs and all that implies. It's a good thing. But man oh man, can we give ULA a break once and a while?

Let's see how competitive SNC's proposal is to NASA for CC with regards to flying on an AtlasV.  I hope ULA finds a way to dramatically lower costs. We need a strong and vibrant AtlasV family of launchers along with the F9 to ensure we have cost effective and reliable access to space for our crews and cargo.

Also, I suspect the timing of much of SNC's latest globe trotting has more to do with their projections on where they will fit in with the August CC selections.

I've never quite got why it seems so popular to run ULA down.
Not everybody, just the loud ones... ;)
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Offline BrightLight

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Re: Dream Chaser's European deal points to multi-role ambitions
« Reply #109 on: 01/16/2014 08:54 PM »

And frankly what does it matter if all their launches or most of them are for the Government. Who else was supposed to launch our planetary missions like curiosity or our critically important spy, weather and Armed Services Communications Sats.?

And now enter SpaceX that will add some competition for many providers including ULA to become more flexible on costs and all that implies. It's a good thing. But man oh man, can we give ULA a break once and a while?

Let's see how competitive SNC's proposal is to NASA for CC with regards to flying on an AtlasV.  I hope ULA finds a way to dramatically lower costs. We need a strong and vibrant AtlasV family of launchers along with the F9 to ensure we have cost effective and reliable access to space for our crews and cargo.

Also, I suspect the timing of much of SNC's latest globe trotting has more to do with their projections on where they will fit in with the August CC selections.

I've never quite got why it seems so popular to run ULA down.
Not everybody, just the loud ones... ;)
From what I've read, LM recently is working on improved manufacturing techniques to lower costs without sacrificing quality - I am looking forward to seeing the integrated systems costs as I expect that competition is driving ULA to new and different approaches - it will be interesting to see cost comparisons between ULA and SpaceX

Offline Robotbeat

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Re: Dream Chaser's European deal points to multi-role ambitions
« Reply #110 on: 01/16/2014 09:45 PM »
....
The Atlas V has 9 flights scheduled for 2014. ...
...interestingly, there are 6 Delta flights (if you include the two Delta II flights) scheduled for 2014, too. That's 15 flights for ULA this year (though next year it's scheduled as 12, with 10 of them on Atlas V... SpaceX has a /chance/ of catching up to them in 2015), compared to 11 in 2013, and 10 in 2012. SpaceX is also gearing up, probably will get 5 to 7 launches in this year. Plus, 3 Antares flights in 2014 are likely. It's looking good for the US launch industry in 2014!

It's not a zero-sum game. The more competitive everyone is, the more the market in general will grow. It's good especially for the US space sector (though everyone benefits).
« Last Edit: 01/16/2014 09:45 PM by Robotbeat »
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Offline Star One

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Re: Dream Chaser's European deal points to multi-role ambitions
« Reply #111 on: 01/17/2014 08:41 AM »


And frankly what does it matter if all their launches or most of them are for the Government. Who else was supposed to launch our planetary missions like curiosity or our critically important spy, weather and Armed Services Communications Sats.?

And now enter SpaceX that will add some competition for many providers including ULA to become more flexible on costs and all that implies. It's a good thing. But man oh man, can we give ULA a break once and a while?

Let's see how competitive SNC's proposal is to NASA for CC with regards to flying on an AtlasV.  I hope ULA finds a way to dramatically lower costs. We need a strong and vibrant AtlasV family of launchers along with the F9 to ensure we have cost effective and reliable access to space for our crews and cargo.

Also, I suspect the timing of much of SNC's latest globe trotting has more to do with their projections on where they will fit in with the August CC selections.

I've never quite got why it seems so popular to run ULA down.

I think its mainly their launch costs, and the way they have been increased over time. But I also think that that's what usually happens with monopolies. However it now sounds like they are becoming more efficient now that they are under more competition. Who knows, over time they might even regain the positive aspects of how they were earlier thought of.

It just seems odd to complain about success, for when you get down to the basics ULA are very successfully at what they do.

Offline woods170

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Re: Dream Chaser's European deal points to multi-role ambitions
« Reply #112 on: 01/17/2014 10:15 AM »


And frankly what does it matter if all their launches or most of them are for the Government. Who else was supposed to launch our planetary missions like curiosity or our critically important spy, weather and Armed Services Communications Sats.?

And now enter SpaceX that will add some competition for many providers including ULA to become more flexible on costs and all that implies. It's a good thing. But man oh man, can we give ULA a break once and a while?

Let's see how competitive SNC's proposal is to NASA for CC with regards to flying on an AtlasV.  I hope ULA finds a way to dramatically lower costs. We need a strong and vibrant AtlasV family of launchers along with the F9 to ensure we have cost effective and reliable access to space for our crews and cargo.

Also, I suspect the timing of much of SNC's latest globe trotting has more to do with their projections on where they will fit in with the August CC selections.

I've never quite got why it seems so popular to run ULA down.

I think its mainly their launch costs, and the way they have been increased over time. But I also think that that's what usually happens with monopolies. However it now sounds like they are becoming more efficient now that they are under more competition. Who knows, over time they might even regain the positive aspects of how they were earlier thought of.

It just seems odd to complain about success, for when you get down to the basics ULA are very successfully at what they do.
Correct. They are extremely succesfull at what they do. People seem to fall primarily over the ever-increasing cost of the things ULA does.

Offline Star One

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Re: Dream Chaser's European deal points to multi-role ambitions
« Reply #113 on: 01/17/2014 03:03 PM »



And frankly what does it matter if all their launches or most of them are for the Government. Who else was supposed to launch our planetary missions like curiosity or our critically important spy, weather and Armed Services Communications Sats.?

And now enter SpaceX that will add some competition for many providers including ULA to become more flexible on costs and all that implies. It's a good thing. But man oh man, can we give ULA a break once and a while?

Let's see how competitive SNC's proposal is to NASA for CC with regards to flying on an AtlasV.  I hope ULA finds a way to dramatically lower costs. We need a strong and vibrant AtlasV family of launchers along with the F9 to ensure we have cost effective and reliable access to space for our crews and cargo.

Also, I suspect the timing of much of SNC's latest globe trotting has more to do with their projections on where they will fit in with the August CC selections.

I've never quite got why it seems so popular to run ULA down.

I think its mainly their launch costs, and the way they have been increased over time. But I also think that that's what usually happens with monopolies. However it now sounds like they are becoming more efficient now that they are under more competition. Who knows, over time they might even regain the positive aspects of how they were earlier thought of.

It just seems odd to complain about success, for when you get down to the basics ULA are very successfully at what they do.
Correct. They are extremely succesfull at what they do. People seem to fall primarily over the ever-increasing cost of the things ULA does.

In relation to this could ULA price themselves out of being DC's carrier launcher?

Offline Jim

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Re: Dream Chaser's European deal points to multi-role ambitions
« Reply #114 on: 01/17/2014 04:10 PM »
From what I've read, LM recently is working on improved manufacturing techniques to lower costs without sacrificing quality - I am looking forward to seeing the integrated systems costs as I expect that competition is driving ULA to new and different approaches - it will be interesting to see cost comparisons between ULA and SpaceX

How is what LM is doing related to ULA?

Offline newpylong

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Re: Dream Chaser's European deal points to multi-role ambitions
« Reply #115 on: 01/17/2014 04:52 PM »
....
The Atlas V has 9 flights scheduled for 2014. ...
...interestingly, there are 6 Delta flights (if you include the two Delta II flights) scheduled for 2014, too. That's 15 flights for ULA this year (though next year it's scheduled as 12, with 10 of them on Atlas V... SpaceX has a /chance/ of catching up to them in 2015), compared to 11 in 2013, and 10 in 2012. SpaceX is also gearing up, probably will get 5 to 7 launches in this year. Plus, 3 Antares flights in 2014 are likely. It's looking good for the US launch industry in 2014!

It's not a zero-sum game. The more competitive everyone is, the more the market in general will grow. It's good especially for the US space sector (though everyone benefits).

This X 2.

Offline BrightLight

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Re: Dream Chaser's European deal points to multi-role ambitions
« Reply #116 on: 01/17/2014 05:02 PM »
From what I've read, LM recently is working on improved manufacturing techniques to lower costs without sacrificing quality - I am looking forward to seeing the integrated systems costs as I expect that competition is driving ULA to new and different approaches - it will be interesting to see cost comparisons between ULA and SpaceX

How is what LM is doing related to ULA?
LM is looking at ways to reduce cost in manufacturing might translate to ULA reduced cost on Atlas

Offline Jim

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Re: Dream Chaser's European deal points to multi-role ambitions
« Reply #117 on: 01/17/2014 06:20 PM »
LM is looking at ways to reduce cost in manufacturing might translate to ULA reduced cost on Atlas

LM has no direct involvement in ULA.   ULA is totally separate from LM and Boeing.  There is no flow of information between the companies.  Any manufacturing improvements are done by ULA and ULA alone.  LM has no role in Atlas production or operations.

Offline Oli

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Re: Dream Chaser's European deal points to multi-role ambitions
« Reply #118 on: 01/19/2014 02:27 AM »

Dordain said at a press conference this friday that it was SNC who approached ESA and ESA has no intention whatsoever to influence the commercial crew selection process.

Offline woods170

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Re: Dream Chaser's European deal points to multi-role ambitions
« Reply #119 on: 01/19/2014 03:09 PM »

Dordain said at a press conference this friday that it was SNC who approached ESA and ESA has no intention whatsoever to influence the commercial crew selection process.

Dordain also said that if Boeing and/or SpaceX would approach ESA for help then ESA would be happy to provide the same sort of assistence as they are providing to SNC now.

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