Author Topic: Introducing Firefly Space Systems (Read 346477 times)

GalacticIntruder · « **Reply #540 on:** 09/29/2016 11:35 pm »

Seems like no one can finance them as long VG has a very good chance of winning their IP lawsuit, and owning FFSS.

Kosmos2001 · « **Reply #541 on:** 09/30/2016 06:36 pm »

Spaceflight Insider article: Fireflight Space Systems burns out?

It will be very bad news if they can't recover from this and cease their operations. I hope they will overcome.

Helodriver · « **Reply #542 on:** 09/30/2016 06:41 pm »

The rumors going around at the IAC were that they are looking into another engine because of IP concerns.

Kosmos2001 · « **Reply #543 on:** 09/30/2016 07:22 pm »

They just now twitted this: These guys want to get back to work! Owners and management are so honored to have such a dedicated and committed team #SaveFirefly

Beittil · « **Reply #544 on:** 09/30/2016 07:39 pm »

https://twitter.com/Firefly_Space/status/781936286911242240

This spells... T R O U B L E

Quote

Firefly Space ‏@Firefly_Space 20m20 minutes ago
These guys want to get back to work! Owners and management are so honored to have such a dedicated and committed team #SaveFirefly

Davidthefat · « **Reply #545 on:** 09/30/2016 08:01 pm »

What could be the potential IP violation? Legally speaking, what protection is there for intellectual property that isn't patented or copyrighted or have any pending?

gongora · « **Reply #546 on:** 09/30/2016 08:26 pm »

Quote from: Davidthefat on 09/30/2016 08:01 pm

What could be the potential IP violation? Legally speaking, what protection is there for intellectual property that isn't patented or copyrighted or have any pending?

If he worked on the engine while at his previous employer (he apparently did) and his employment agreement didn't specify that the previous employer would forfeit rights to that technology (it apparently didn't), then the previous employer would have rights to it.

Toast · « **Reply #547 on:** 09/30/2016 08:28 pm »

Quote from: Helodriver on 09/30/2016 06:41 pm

The rumors going around at the IAC were that they are looking into another engine because of IP concerns.

Would they also be ditching the aerospike design? I seem to recall hearing that the Virgin suit included the aerospike, not just the engines.

FinalFrontier · « **Reply #548 on:** 09/30/2016 09:00 pm »

Read a bit more about this, particularly wrt recent legal issues.

I have some very serious misgivings having read what I have read, but this forum is not the place to air them. Instead I will simply say that I do not expect to see this company go forward in any meaningful way in the near future though longer term remains to be seen.

ringsider · « **Reply #549 on:** 10/01/2016 01:38 pm »

It seems they had a setback on funding they expected. The reasons are unclear but with that case unsettled, and that recent harsh ruling against Markusic, I would be amazed if a professional investor will touch them. This was actually stated by their own lawyer in one of the legal filings. Markusic's behavior while a VG employee is now on the legal public record.

You don't need inside information to understand this situation, it's all public, including their business plans, in the legal filings. Just the public data is extraordinary - they were burning money like they were printing it, 150-200 staff .... Obviously they need/needed someone to finance those expenses. Without significant revenue, it's equity or debt. And again, if you are any kind of professional fiduciary, where you have to do due diligence, you are not putting any money into that situation. Not a penny. Especially if it is Branson suing; Branson beat British Airways - do you really think he will stop against anyone who he feels has wronged him, especially when he has a horse in the race?

I said it before, and at least one judge in Texas has said it too: they should have settled that suit right quick, instead of running a spoiler game that was as transparent as glass and made them look awful. Now they are basically up a gum tree.

On top of that, all the technical changes are a sure sign of trouble. Autogenous press becomes helium press, methane becomes RP-1... at some point they have zero novelty or technical advantage, and each change reduces credibility. I would not be surprised to see a liquidation or firesale before the end of the year.

ringsider · « **Reply #550 on:** 10/01/2016 01:59 pm »

Quote from: Kosmos2001 on 09/30/2016 07:22 pm

They just now twitted this: These guys want to get back to work! Owners and management are so honored to have such a dedicated and committed team #SaveFirefly

That tweet was deleted.... They removed the "these guys want to get back to work" bit. Implying that "those guys" are currently not working...

Kosmos2001 · « **Reply #551 on:** 10/01/2016 05:21 pm »

This is so sad.

TrevorMonty · « **Reply #552 on:** 10/01/2016 06:45 pm »

The aerospike engine may fly but at another company. If Firefly closes shop the staff and knowledge they've gained will end up in other LV companies.

meekGee · « **Reply #553 on:** 10/02/2016 04:15 am »

Quote from: TrevorMonty on 10/01/2016 06:45 pm

The aerospike engine may fly but at another company. If Firefly closes shop the staff and knowledge they've gained will end up in other LV companies.

Only if the entire team gets transferred. If it's just individuals, a huge amount of know-how disappears.

That, plus all the IP problems.

QuantumG · « **Reply #554 on:** 10/02/2016 07:59 am »

So long.

PhotoEngineer · « **Reply #555 on:** 10/02/2016 10:05 pm »

I feel sorry for all those engineers. Looking at Linked In and a lot of them have only been there a few months. Just a sucky situation for them.

Beittil · « **Reply #556 on:** 10/03/2016 12:00 pm »

Whoopsie...

http://spacenews.com/firefly-space-systems-furloughs-staff-after-investor-backs-out/

Quote

WASHINGTON — Firefly Space Systems, a Texas company developing a small launch vehicle, has furloughed its entire staff after an investor backed out, forcing the firm to consider alternative vehicle concepts or even a sale of the company.

In a brief statement posted to its Twitter account Sept. 29, Firefly Space Systems said a recent “setback in funding” forced the company to “take necessary action to maintain cash-flow equilibrium and position our company for future success.” Firefly did not elaborate on its situation other than tweeting a photo of company employees Sept. 30 with the caption, “Owners and management are so honored to have such a dedicated and committed team.”

What stood out for me is this quote (emp. mine):

Quote

Markusic declined to identify the investor, other than to say the investor was based in Europe. “Brexit had something to do with it,” he said, referring to the decision by voters in a June referendum in the United Kingdom to exit the European Union. “All the messaging that we got was that it wasn’t us. They were going to go in a different strategic direction.”

Yeah sure, 'it wasn't us'... I am 100% that this investor is not at all worried about the lawsuit and all you know... ow wait...

TrevorMonty · « **Reply #557 on:** 10/03/2016 04:26 pm »

Firefly plan to air launch LV.
Interesting article by Doug.

http://www.parabolicarc.com/2016/10/02/firefly-planned-air-launch-small-satellite-booster/

If there is a link to Stratolauncher then all may not be lost for Firefly. I can't see Stratolauncher (Vulcan Inc) letting Firefly disappear if they need their LV.

HMXHMX · « **Reply #558 on:** 10/03/2016 05:27 pm »

Quote from: TrevorMonty on 10/03/2016 04:26 pm

Firefly plan to air launch LV.
Interesting article by Doug.

http://www.parabolicarc.com/2016/10/02/firefly-planned-air-launch-small-satellite-booster/

If there is a link to Stratolauncher then all may not be lost for Firefly. I can't see Stratolauncher (Vulcan Inc) letting Firefly disappear if they need their LV.

I have been sitting on a well-sourced rumor for some time that Vulcan is/was involved in Firefly. My understanding was they were an investor or about to become one. With the current churning, perhaps the truth will out.

But I can't see Allen's advisors letting him get into a legal snake pit with VG. I recall Burt showing me the massive contract that Vulcan required for participation in SpaceShipOne. I doubt they have become less vigilant in protecting Allen's interests.

Robotbeat · « **Reply #559 on:** 10/03/2016 06:20 pm »

If Vulcan (who sound like adults) are involved, sounds like the Firefly team may not be utterly devoid of hope. Markusic is screwed. Vulcan won't touch it unless they can come to an understanding with Virgin, but I see a possibility of that happening.