SpaceX Transportation of Stages options

[Robotbeat]

Or just building it near the launch site. There are wheeled vehicles for transporting basically arbitrarily large things. The issue is that highway transport is ridiculous over any but very short distances. If you're just going a few miles, no biggie. If you're going thousands of miles over land... yeah, that's a problem for anything much bigger than Falcon 9.

Why highways? You could use multiple railroad tracks in parallel just like the way they handle the siege railroad  artillery in WWII (e.g. 80 cm Schwerer Gustav railroad gun). Come to think of it, doesn't the Proton LV uses a similar set up.

Rail transport is constrained just like highway transport is.

[Lar]

Or just building it near the launch site. There are wheeled vehicles for transporting basically arbitrarily large things. The issue is that highway transport is ridiculous over any but very short distances. If you're just going a few miles, no biggie. If you're going thousands of miles over land... yeah, that's a problem for anything much bigger than Falcon 9.

Why highways? You could use multiple railroad tracks in parallel just like the way they handle the siege railroad  artillery in WWII (e.g. 80 cm Schwerer Gustav railroad gun). Come to think of it, doesn't the Proton LV uses a similar set up.

Rail transport is constrained just like highway transport is.

I think Zed meant rail from the barge to the launchpad but I could be wrong.

THAT said, rail transport is often actually far MORE constrained. The loading gauge may be large initially but often there are bridges with fixed clearances that are not easy to reroute around. NS, CR and CSX spent many many millions just increasing clearances by 2-3 feet to allow doublestacks to get to certain ports in the east.

SpaceX optimizes for cost. They initially went the cheapest (initial cost) way on a fair few things but over time have redone them to get long term costs down. The suggestion that they might pay to bury wires and generally improve clearances between the Brownsville factory and the Boca Chica pad fits their MO very well, IMHO.

[Zed_Noir]

Or just building it near the launch site. There are wheeled vehicles for transporting basically arbitrarily large things. The issue is that highway transport is ridiculous over any but very short distances. If you're just going a few miles, no biggie. If you're going thousands of miles over land... yeah, that's a problem for anything much bigger than Falcon 9.

Why highways? You could use multiple railroad tracks in parallel just like the way they handle the siege railroad  artillery in WWII (e.g. 80 cm Schwerer Gustav railroad gun). Come to think of it, doesn't the Proton LV uses a similar set up.

Rail transport is constrained just like highway transport is.

I think Zed meant rail from the barge to the launchpad but I could be wrong.

I meant from BFR factory to the pad. Say a couple dozen kilometers at the most operating as a small private railroad.

[Robotbeat]

Yeah, that would work, but it doesn't have the flexibility of wheeled transport. I expect them to go for wheeled transport, not rail, if they have to build the infrastructure themselves.

[Lars_J]

Yeah, that would work, but it doesn't have the flexibility of wheeled transport. I expect them to go for wheeled transport, not rail, if they have to build the infrastructure themselves.

Yep. They didn't bother to lay rail at Vandenberg. They'll use it if is there, but don't expect Elon to get into the railroad business.

[Robotbeat]

Yeah, that would work, but it doesn't have the flexibility of wheeled transport. I expect them to go for wheeled transport, not rail, if they have to build the infrastructure themselves.

Yep. They didn't bother to lay rail at Vandenberg. They'll use it if is there, but don't expect Elon to get into the railroad business.

...unless he grows a mustache. :{)

[Lar]

Yeah, that would work, but it doesn't have the flexibility of wheeled transport. I expect them to go for wheeled transport, not rail, if they have to build the infrastructure themselves.

Yep. They didn't bother to lay rail at Vandenberg. They'll use it if is there, but don't expect Elon to get into the railroad business.

The hyperloop business maybe.

Say, there's an idea, what if we drill large cylindrical underground evacuated tubes from the factory to the pad? Then just send the stages down the tubes using air pressure... That would work wouldn't it???

OK maybe not, I'll just be getting my coat.

[Dave G]

SpaceX optimizes for cost. They initially went the cheapest (initial cost) way on a fair few things but over time have redone them to get long term costs down. The suggestion that they might pay to bury wires and generally improve clearances between the Brownsville factory and the Boca Chica pad fits their MO very well, IMHO.

I was thinking they could build a pier on the beach, and somehow roll the stages off a barge onto the pier.

When the pier isn't being used for this purpose, it could be open to the general public.  There are many public beaches with piers.

[Avron]

SpaceX optimizes for cost. They initially went the cheapest (initial cost) way on a fair few things but over time have redone them to get long term costs down. The suggestion that they might pay to bury wires and generally improve clearances between the Brownsville factory and the Boca Chica pad fits their MO very well, IMHO.

I was thinking they could build a pier on the beach, and somehow roll the stages off a barge onto the pier.

When the pier isn't being used for this purpose, it could be open to the general public.  There are many public beaches with piers.

Spacex optimizes for simplicity, reliability and cost.. thinking from first principles, by now Musk must have drilled that into the designers.. I do not see anything complex other than assemble on site .. however, there is an option since Mr musk want to get into electric aircraft to  fly the stages in. Pressurize stage, add cockpit, wings and tail ..   

[Zed_Noir]

SpaceX optimizes for cost. They initially went the cheapest (initial cost) way on a fair few things but over time have redone them to get long term costs down. The suggestion that they might pay to bury wires and generally improve clearances between the Brownsville factory and the Boca Chica pad fits their MO very well, IMHO.

I was thinking they could build a pier on the beach, and somehow roll the stages off a barge onto the pier.

When the pier isn't being used for this purpose, it could be open to the general public.  There are many public beaches with piers.

Or buy a mobile floating pier. Typically use to move heavy armoured vehicles from landing ship to improvised beachheads. Maybe issue with moving between the pier and the road, can the core transporter traverse that gap.

[mheney]

SpaceX optimizes for cost. They initially went the cheapest (initial cost) way on a fair few things but over time have redone them to get long term costs down. The suggestion that they might pay to bury wires and generally improve clearances between the Brownsville factory and the Boca Chica pad fits their MO very well, IMHO.

I was thinking they could build a pier on the beach, and somehow roll the stages off a barge onto the pier.

When the pier isn't being used for this purpose, it could be open to the general public.  There are many public beaches with piers.

Spacex optimizes for simplicity, reliability and cost.. thinking from first principles, by now Musk must have drilled that into the designers.. I do not see anything complex other than assemble on site .. however, there is an option since Mr musk want to get into electric aircraft to  fly the stages in. Pressurize stage, add cockpit, wings and tail ..   

Nah - just build the equivalent of the hexacopter they're using to film Grasshopper launches.  Take the current truck rig, extend a hex-shaped frame around it, and get several Erickson S-64 AirCranes to lift at each vertex.  Each has a payload capacity of about 10t; the F9 v1.1 first stage is about 19t.   Choose 3, 4, or 6 choppers depending on stage + frame weight, and you've got an insane stage transport system that can go almost anywhere, without worrying about stage diameter considerations. 

(If you leave the engines off and integrate those at the launch site, it gets even easier to transport the stages; then engines are on the order of half the weight on an F9 first stage ....)

[Avron]

Spacex optimizes for simplicity, reliability and cost.. thinking from first principles, by now Musk must have drilled that into the designers.. I do not see anything complex other than assemble on site .. however, there is an option since Mr musk want to get into electric aircraft to  fly the stages in. Pressurize stage, add cockpit, wings and tail ..   

Nah - just build the equivalent of the hexacopter they're using to film Grasshopper launches.  Take the current truck rig, extend a hex-shaped frame around it, and get several Erickson S-64 AirCranes to lift at each vertex.  Each has a payload capacity of about 10t; the F9 v1.1 first stage is about 19t.   Choose 3, 4, or 6 choppers depending on stage + frame weight, and you've got an insane stage transport system that can go almost anywhere, without worrying about stage diameter considerations. 

(If you leave the engines off and integrate those at the launch site, it gets even easier to transport the stages; then engines are on the order of half the weight on an F9 first stage ....)

simple .. except for the gas bill, choppers burn gas like crazy... oh well so much for going green..

[Zed_Noir]

Spacex optimizes for simplicity, reliability and cost.. thinking from first principles, by now Musk must have drilled that into the designers.. I do not see anything complex other than assemble on site .. however, there is an option since Mr musk want to get into electric aircraft to  fly the stages in. Pressurize stage, add cockpit, wings and tail ..   

Nah - just build the equivalent of the hexacopter they're using to film Grasshopper launches.  Take the current truck rig, extend a hex-shaped frame around it, and get several Erickson S-64 AirCranes to lift at each vertex.  Each has a payload capacity of about 10t; the F9 v1.1 first stage is about 19t.   Choose 3, 4, or 6 choppers depending on stage + frame weight, and you've got an insane stage transport system that can go almost anywhere, without worrying about stage diameter considerations. 

(If you leave the engines off and integrate those at the launch site, it gets even easier to transport the stages; then engines are on the order of half the weight on an F9 first stage ....)

simple .. except for the gas bill, choppers burn gas like crazy... oh well so much for going green..

Never mind the gas for the helos. The rotor washes that many helos produces plus difficulties  in maintaining flying formation and individual helo attitude is not that workable.

[mheney]

Rotor wash is obviously a solvable problem, as SpaceX is flying a hexacopter close to a flying rocket vehicle, and at the large end of things, the Russians built this: . 

As for formation flying, you simply rigidly attach the copters to the frame.  Voila!  Problem solved!

[Lars_J]

Rotor wash is obviously a solvable problem, as SpaceX is flying a hexacopter close to a flying rocket vehicle, and at the large end of things, the Russians built this: . 

As for formation flying, you simply rigidly attach the copters to the frame.  Voila!  Problem solved!

In the movies, perhaps. This is not the "Pacific Rim" universe.

[R7]

As for formation flying, you simply rigidly attach the copters to the frame.  Voila!  Problem solved!

In the movies, perhaps. This is not the "Pacific Rim" universe.

Hmmmmmm....

[Lars_J]

R7, I think you missed that the suggestion was about flying many helicopters connected by a frame.

[R7]

No, suggesting stepping backwards to a real world solution that's already done test flights. Helicopter rotor may be a bit too much to take all the way into orbit but for first stage transport and DL of the EDL, who knows?

[Lars_J]

No, suggesting stepping backwards to a real world solution that's already done test flights. Helicopter rotor may be a bit too much to take all the way into orbit but for first stage transport and DL of the EDL, who knows?

Ok, fine, I'll play your game. When have we seen multiple helicopters flown in a formation, lifting a heavy payload while connected by a frame? Please, I'd like to know.

[R7]

When have we seen multiple helicopters flown in a formation, lifting a heavy payload while connected by a frame? Please, I'd like to know.

In the movies I suppose. You suggested "Pacific Rim". Don't remember if the helicopters were connected. Anyways said "stepping backwards to a real world"