Author Topic: Italy in Space  (Read 6089 times)

Offline archipeppe68

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 193
  • Italy
  • Liked: 52
  • Likes Given: 5
Italy in Space
« on: 12/16/2013 09:22 am »
49 Years ago, on December 15th 1964, Italy became the third Nation in the World to launch an its own orbiting satellite.

The San Marco A satellite was launched by Wallops Island facility with a LTV Scout X4 rocket by all Italian personnell launch team. The satellite itself was conceived, realized and operated by all Italian team led by Prof. Luigi Broglio.

San Marco A main payload was the so called "Broglio Balance" aimed to study the upper atmosphere's density.

The San Marco Programme was launched through a bi-lateral accord among USA and Italy signed by Lyndon Johnson and Amintore Fanfani in 1962, part of the accord was the American ceasing of Scout rockets to Italy and the opening of a brand new off-shore launch center located in Formosa Bay in Kenya, later known as San Marco launch platform.

Offline A12

  • Full Member
  • **
  • Posts: 210
  • ROME, ITALY
  • Liked: 53
  • Likes Given: 429
Re: Italy in Space
« Reply #1 on: 12/16/2013 11:50 am »
Archipeppe,
many thanks for give us (Italians) an head up on that !

Offline archipeppe68

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 193
  • Italy
  • Liked: 52
  • Likes Given: 5
Re: Italy in Space
« Reply #2 on: 12/16/2013 11:59 am »
Archipeppe,
many thanks for give us (Italians) an head up on that !

You're welcomed paisą... ;-)

Online plutogno

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 799
  • Toulouse, France and Milan, Italy
  • Liked: 137
  • Likes Given: 9
Re: Italy in Space
« Reply #3 on: 12/16/2013 12:32 pm »
49 Years ago, on December 15th 1964, Italy became the third Nation in the World to launch an its own orbiting satellite.

actually, the fifth nation considering that there were a UK (Ariel) and a Canadian (Alouette) satellite before San Marco

Offline gwiz

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 496
  • Cornwall
  • Liked: 77
  • Likes Given: 3
Re: Italy in Space
« Reply #4 on: 12/16/2013 01:26 pm »
The difference was that it was an Italian launch crew, admittedly with a US-built vehicle, for San Marco, but US launches for Ariel and Alouette.

Online Blackstar

  • Veteran
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11598
  • Liked: 3147
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: Italy in Space
« Reply #5 on: 12/16/2013 01:33 pm »
Earlier this year I saw a presentation about San Marco at the Italian embassy in Washington, DC. The presenter had some great photos of the facility. He showed that early on they had to climb cargo nets to get onboard--imagine standing in a rocking boat and then grabbing the cargo netting and climbing up the side of the platform. Later they installed a better system.

I cannot remember much from the presentation. I think he said that the platform is still out there and in decent condition. I think he said that they had gone onboard for an anniversary. But I don't remember much. It was very much an Italian operation. U.S. rocket, but Italy was responsible for everything, possibly with some American contractor support.

Offline A12

  • Full Member
  • **
  • Posts: 210
  • ROME, ITALY
  • Liked: 53
  • Likes Given: 429
Re: Italy in Space
« Reply #6 on: 12/16/2013 04:06 pm »
...I think he said that the platform is still out there and in decent condition.

Yes, it is yet in use as Comms Center.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broglio_Space_Centre

Online plutogno

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 799
  • Toulouse, France and Milan, Italy
  • Liked: 137
  • Likes Given: 9
Re: Italy in Space
« Reply #7 on: 12/16/2013 04:09 pm »
Yes, it is yet in use as Comms Center.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broglio_Space_Centre

the communication center is on land, while the platform is at sea

Offline archipeppe68

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 193
  • Italy
  • Liked: 52
  • Likes Given: 5
Re: Italy in Space
« Reply #8 on: 12/16/2013 05:17 pm »
Yes, it is yet in use as Comms Center.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broglio_Space_Centre

the communication center is on land, while the platform is at sea

There could be some confusion, one thing is the Telespazio Malindi station and one other thing the Broglio Space Center. All the rockets were launched by San Marco and controlled by Santa Rita (I and II).

According to Wikipedia Italy was the third Nation to built, launch and operate a satellite by its own.
Ariel was built, launched and operated by NASA while Alouette was built by Canada but launched by NASA and also operated through NASA support.

While the Scout X4 was launched by Wallops Island the launch and operation team were entirely Italians, the same Scout was officially handed over to Italy so it was Italian property.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Marco_programme

The Italian launch team was composed mostly by former 36ma Aerobrigata personnell, they was on charge to co-opeate the 30 Jupiter IRBM based in Italy (Puglia, south of Italy) during 1960-62 timeframe giving for a certain period of time nuclar attack capability to Italy. The Jupiters were removed (also from Turkey) in the aftermath of Cuban crisis.

Offline A12

  • Full Member
  • **
  • Posts: 210
  • ROME, ITALY
  • Liked: 53
  • Likes Given: 429
Re: Italy in Space
« Reply #9 on: 12/16/2013 09:23 pm »
archipeppe68 ,

There is some book or paper published about the whole story of San Marco project, that you can suggest ?

Offline archipeppe68

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 193
  • Italy
  • Liked: 52
  • Likes Given: 5
Re: Italy in Space
« Reply #10 on: 12/17/2013 11:16 am »
archipeppe68 ,

There is some book or paper published about the whole story of San Marco project, that you can suggest ?

Unfortunately nothing for the sole San Marco project and nothing in English, as far I know.

The only book about Broglio's life is "Nella nebbia in attesa del Sole" by Giorgio Di Bernardo Nicolai printed out in 2005.

Offline edkyle99

  • Expert
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13123
    • Space Launch Report
  • Liked: 4378
  • Likes Given: 796
Re: Italy in Space
« Reply #11 on: 12/17/2013 03:05 pm »
The Italian launch team was composed mostly by former 36ma Aerobrigata personnell, they was on charge to co-opeate the 30 Jupiter IRBM based in Italy (Puglia, south of Italy) during 1960-62 timeframe giving for a certain period of time nuclar attack capability to Italy. The Jupiters were removed (also from Turkey) in the aftermath of Cuban crisis.
Interesting!  The final Jupiter launch (Missile CM-106) was performed by an Italian crew on January 23, 1963 (00:27 UTC) from Cape Canaveral, about 23 months before San Marco A.  It would be interesting to learn about their training process for Scout.

Italian Air Force personnel received Jupiter training from Wernher von Braun's group at Redstone Arsenal near Huntsville, Alabama during 1959 and 1960.  Italian crews then commanded a series of Jupiter Crew Training Launches at Cape Canaveral, Florida beginning in 1961.  To my knowledge, all of the Italian-launched Jupiters were successful.

When CM-106 was launched, some suspected but few knew that it was not just the program finale, but also the last launch from the Army's historic Missile Firing Laboratory at the Cape.

Here are a couple of images of a San Marco platform launch.  I'm not sure of the mission.

 - Ed Kyle
« Last Edit: 12/17/2013 03:17 pm by edkyle99 »

Online plutogno

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 799
  • Toulouse, France and Milan, Italy
  • Liked: 137
  • Likes Given: 9
Re: Italy in Space
« Reply #12 on: 12/17/2013 04:34 pm »
a few references on San Marco and its history
http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19740004978_1974004978.pdf
http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19720007316_1972007316.pdf
"San Marco Project" by Broglio (NASA TT F-12,815) is also a good reading, but it is no longer on NTRS (it's a 70 Mb pdf, I will not post it here)
about Italy in space this in my opinion is the best book in English
http://books.google.fr/books?id=EBAULQp7dDYC&dq=italy+in+space+de+maria&source=gbs_navlinks_s
in Italian I was not impressed by "Storia Italiana dello Spazio"
http://books.google.fr/books?id=Mbz4ICqAOVkC&dq=caprara+spazio+italia&hl=fr&source=gbs_navlinks_s
which in my opinion is quite chaotic

Offline archipeppe68

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 193
  • Italy
  • Liked: 52
  • Likes Given: 5
Re: Italy in Space
« Reply #13 on: 12/17/2013 04:53 pm »
a few references on San Marco and its history
http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19740004978_1974004978.pdf
http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19720007316_1972007316.pdf
"San Marco Project" by Broglio (NASA TT F-12,815) is also a good reading, but it is no longer on NTRS (it's a 70 Mb pdf, I will not post it here)
about Italy in space this in my opinion is the best book in English
http://books.google.fr/books?id=EBAULQp7dDYC&dq=italy+in+space+de+maria&source=gbs_navlinks_s
in Italian I was not impressed by "Storia Italiana dello Spazio"
http://books.google.fr/books?id=Mbz4ICqAOVkC&dq=caprara+spazio+italia&hl=fr&source=gbs_navlinks_s
which in my opinion is quite chaotic

Many thanks for the references.

I agree with you about Caprara's book, I had it  and didn't found interesting, is nice coffee book nothing more than that...

Offline archipeppe68

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 193
  • Italy
  • Liked: 52
  • Likes Given: 5
Re: Italy in Space
« Reply #14 on: 12/17/2013 05:03 pm »
The Italian launch team was composed mostly by former 36ma Aerobrigata personnell, they was on charge to co-opeate the 30 Jupiter IRBM based in Italy (Puglia, south of Italy) during 1960-62 timeframe giving for a certain period of time nuclar attack capability to Italy. The Jupiters were removed (also from Turkey) in the aftermath of Cuban crisis.
Interesting!  The final Jupiter launch (Missile CM-106) was performed by an Italian crew on January 23, 1963 (00:27 UTC) from Cape Canaveral, about 23 months before San Marco A.  It would be interesting to learn about their training process for Scout.

Italian Air Force personnel received Jupiter training from Wernher von Braun's group at Redstone Arsenal near Huntsville, Alabama during 1959 and 1960.  Italian crews then commanded a series of Jupiter Crew Training Launches at Cape Canaveral, Florida beginning in 1961.  To my knowledge, all of the Italian-launched Jupiters were successful.

When CM-106 was launched, some suspected but few knew that it was not just the program finale, but also the last launch from the Army's historic Missile Firing Laboratory at the Cape.

Here are a couple of images of a San Marco platform launch.  I'm not sure of the mission.

 - Ed Kyle

The other side of the story was that Italian Navy tried to purchase some Polaris A1 missiles to fit surface vessels (starting with the old Garibaldi refit) with nuclear attack capability. At least a training A1 was launched by Garibaldi's hot tubes during a trial in USA, but US Government gave up the technology transfer.

Italian Navy persisted in such idea and started to design a domestic version of the Polaris named ALFA and realized by SNIA-BPD and Aeritalia (now Alenia-Aermacchi-Aeronautica). The missile ALFA was launched at least four times from Salto di Quirra range (in Sardinia) during the early '70s. The program was stopped since Italy left for good its nuclear ambitions (same end for the SSN Guglielmo Marconi class) in the second half of '70s.
« Last Edit: 12/17/2013 05:05 pm by archipeppe68 »

Offline Jester

  • Administrator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7195
  • SpaceShip Earth
  • Liked: 3760
  • Likes Given: 128
Re: Italy in Space
« Reply #15 on: 12/30/2013 12:16 pm »
slightly off-topic, but for some CSG research i'm looking for some info/images on STV-4 (build by Fiat and launched on Europa-II (failed) (I know the link from Gunter, i'm looking for more in depth info/images)

Tags: