Author Topic: Moon Express MX-1 (Read 110799 times)

TrevorMonty · « **Reply #40 on:** 10/01/2015 10:38 pm »

Quote from: GWH on 10/01/2015 08:02 pm

"In an Oct. 1 interview, Bob Richards, co-founder and chief executive of Moon Express, said that Electron will be able to send “something under” 10 kilograms to the surface of the moon. “That’s good for our purposes in our first missions,” he said. “Call it an entry-level lunar mission.” - See more at: http://spacenews.com/moon-express-buys-rocket-lab-launches-for-lunar-missions/#sthash.pP71rYIo.dpuf "

This lander is about 200kg compared to MX1 at 600kg.

GWH · « **Reply #41 on:** 10/01/2015 10:45 pm »

They state in the article that they are going for another size reduction now, although there is nothing shown on their site.

TrevorMonty · « **Reply #42 on:** 10/02/2015 12:12 am »

Here are two more articles on it. We have name for it MX-1E (E for Electron??).
Made up of 2 small (identical??) landers first one acts as booster to get it out of LEO.

http://www.cnbc.com/2015/10/01/moon-express-rockets-closer-to-planned-lunar-landing.html

http://www.nbr.co.nz/opinion/nzs-rocket-lab-signs-contract-company-planning-moonshots-2017

TrevorMonty · « **Reply #43 on:** 10/02/2015 08:08 pm »

In theory the MX1E has enough DV to reach Phobos or Deimos. MoonExpress have considered this as per NBR article quote.

Moon Express co-founder and chairman Naveen Jain adds: “Moon Express is building disruptive technologies that will forever change the cost of access to space, including the asteroids and even the moons of Mars.

sdsds · « **Reply #44 on:** 10/02/2015 08:49 pm »

Quote from: TrevorMonty on 10/02/2015 08:08 pm

In theory the MX1E has enough DV to reach Phobos or Deimos.

I think you misread that. Jain spoke of the underlying technology, not the particular spacecraft. Or ... do you have another source, or perhaps some calculations you could share?

ChrisWilson68 · « **Reply #45 on:** 10/03/2015 07:51 pm »

Quote from: TrevorMonty on 10/01/2015 10:38 pm

Quote from: GWH on 10/01/2015 08:02 pm
"In an Oct. 1 interview, Bob Richards, co-founder and chief executive of Moon Express, said that Electron will be able to send “something under” 10 kilograms to the surface of the moon. “That’s good for our purposes in our first missions,” he said. “Call it an entry-level lunar mission.” - See more at: http://spacenews.com/moon-express-buys-rocket-lab-launches-for-lunar-missions/#sthash.pP71rYIo.dpuf "

This lander is about 200kg compared to MX1 at 600kg.

I wonder whether this is a realistic plan or a product of desperation.

If they could do it in 200kg, why not plan that from the start? It seems possible that they realized they need a launch contract in three months or they fail entirely, and the only launch contract they could come up with was Electron, so they were forced into 200kg. If that's their only hope, they might decide to try for it even if an unbiased assessment would say there's no realistic chance they could fit it in 200kg.

Or, it could be that under pressure they realized a way to really do it in 200kg that has a chance of actually working.

There's no way to really tell.

There's also no way to tell whether the launch contract is actually meaningful. There might be no down payment and RocketLabs might be happy to sign the contract even if Moon Express has demonstrated no capacity or commitment to actually pay, because it is good for RocketLabs to have a customer listed on its manifest.

savuporo · « **Reply #46 on:** 10/03/2015 08:11 pm »

I thought 200 kg is completely ludicrous for a lunar lander, but there is this : Japanese SLIM lunar lander proposal. They are planning to fly it on Epsilon. JAXA has a (troubled) history of building the relatively tiny systems, if anyone can make this work its them.
Moon Express ? Probably not, i think this is just the way to drag X-Prize out further

Prober · « **Reply #47 on:** 10/03/2015 10:16 pm »

Quote from: savuporo on 10/03/2015 08:11 pm

I thought 200 kg is completely ludicrous for a lunar lander, but there is this : Japanese SLIM lunar lander proposal. They are planning to fly it on Epsilon. JAXA has a (troubled) history of building the relatively tiny systems, if anyone can make this work its them.
Moon Express ? Probably not, i think this is just the way to drag X-Prize out further

had some of the same thoughts about the weight reduction. If you look at the cube-nano sats a lot has been accomplished. It all comes down to their engineering

notsorandom · « **Reply #48 on:** 10/04/2015 05:05 am »

Quote from: sdsds on 10/02/2015 08:49 pm

Quote from: TrevorMonty on 10/02/2015 08:08 pm
In theory the MX1E has enough DV to reach Phobos or Deimos.

I think you misread that. Jain spoke of the underlying technology, not the particular spacecraft. Or ... do you have another source, or perhaps some calculations you could share?

Looks like that might work Delta V wise. From LEO to the lunar surface is about 5.6km/s. LEO to Phobos is about 5.5km/s.

sdsds · « **Reply #49 on:** 10/04/2015 06:47 am »

Quote from: notsorandom on 10/04/2015 05:05 am

Looks like that might work Delta V wise. From LEO to the lunar surface is about 5.6km/s. LEO to Phobos is about 5.5km/s.

Hmm! Does your 5.6 km/s value take into account use of a Belbruno-Miller style "weak stability boundary" transfer to the lunar vicinity, or does it reflect something more like the Apollo "fast path" approach?

TrevorMonty · « **Reply #50 on:** 10/04/2015 09:45 am »

They said lander was 2 stages with both stages based on same basic design, of course lander stage will be different from booster. This design offers other possibilities, the booster stage could be used as a third stage enabling earth escape or TLI of cubesats. Being able to send a couple of 6U cubesats to Mars for a launch cost of a few million each would be of great interest to planetary science community.

notsorandom · « **Reply #51 on:** 10/05/2015 02:53 pm »

Quote from: sdsds on 10/04/2015 06:47 am

Quote from: notsorandom on 10/04/2015 05:05 am
Looks like that might work Delta V wise. From LEO to the lunar surface is about 5.6km/s. LEO to Phobos is about 5.5km/s.

Hmm! Does your 5.6 km/s value take into account use of a Belbruno-Miller style "weak stability boundary" transfer to the lunar vicinity, or does it reflect something more like the Apollo "fast path" approach?

There are a few sources for those figures, none of which agree totally. The 5.6km/s figure was on the low end. Others have it up to 6km/s. At any rate the Delta V is in roughly the same range as needed to get to Phobos. So his statement to that effect does seem reasonable. There are other aspects of the two trips that are quite different. Phobos requires a longer cruise and is much, much father away. Thermal, power, and communications are issues which could require a pretty significant modification.

TrevorMonty · « **Reply #52 on:** 10/05/2015 05:48 pm »

Quote from: notsorandom on 10/05/2015 02:53 pm

Quote from: sdsds on 10/04/2015 06:47 am
Quote from: notsorandom on 10/04/2015 05:05 am
Looks like that might work Delta V wise. From LEO to the lunar surface is about 5.6km/s. LEO to Phobos is about 5.5km/s.

Hmm! Does your 5.6 km/s value take into account use of a Belbruno-Miller style "weak stability boundary" transfer to the lunar vicinity, or does it reflect something more like the Apollo "fast path" approach?
There are a few sources for those figures, none of which agree totally. The 5.6km/s figure was on the low end. Others have it up to 6km/s. At any rate the Delta V is in roughly the same range as needed to get to Phobos. So his statement to that effect does seem reasonable. There are other aspects of the two trips that are quite different. Phobos requires a longer cruise and is much, much father away. Thermal, power, and communications are issues which could require a pretty significant modification.

My statement was more about Electron being capable of delivering a MX1E BASED lander to Phobo. The Phobo lander would require significant changes for long flight, including heating of RP1 when it is required for the high DV burns.
How much useful science can be done with 10kg is another story.

TrevorMonty · « **Reply #53 on:** 12/08/2015 03:44 pm »

WASHINGTON — The X Prize Foundation announced Dec. 8 that it has verified a (RocketLab) launch contract announced in October by Moon Express, making the company the second with an approved deal to participate in the $30 million Google Lunar X Prize competition to land spacecraft on the moon. - See more at: http://spacenews.com/x-prize-verifies-moon-express-launch-contract/#sthash.p1QOljtT.dpuf

http://spacenews.com/x-prize-verifies-moon-express-launch-contract/

Prober · « **Reply #54 on:** 12/08/2015 05:24 pm »

Quote from: TrevorMonty on 12/08/2015 03:44 pm

WASHINGTON — The X Prize Foundation announced Dec. 8 that it has verified a (RocketLab) launch contract announced in October by Moon Express, making the company the second with an approved deal to participate in the $30 million Google Lunar X Prize competition to land spacecraft on the moon. - See more at: http://spacenews.com/x-prize-verifies-moon-express-launch-contract/#sthash.p1QOljtT.dpuf

http://spacenews.com/x-prize-verifies-moon-express-launch-contract/

Debunked
so much for someone's wild conspiracy theory.

JamesG123 · « **Reply #55 on:** 12/24/2015 04:50 pm »

And unproven spacecraft being launched on an unflown booster. What could possibly go wrong?

TrevorMonty · « **Reply #56 on:** 12/24/2015 05:42 pm »

Quote from: JamesG123 on 12/24/2015 04:50 pm

And unproven spacecraft being launched on an unflown booster. What could possibly go wrong?

The LV should have a few launches under its belt by the time MX fly.

A_M_Swallow · « **Reply #57 on:** 01/29/2016 09:15 pm »

Quote from: sghill on 01/29/2016 07:17 pm

Moon Express is vacating Pad 36 facilities. Will be moving to LC 17/18 at Canaveral. James Dean at FL Today is tweeting about it today as well.

I was at the Space Florida Board of Directors meeting yesterday and didn't get the impression that anything was amiss with Moon Express. It seemed more like they needed to go somewhere else now that Blue Origin is taking over all of Pad 36 under a new lease.

If Rocket Lab will be performing the space launches then Moon Express will not need to lease a Pad.

sghill · « **Reply #58 on:** 01/30/2016 12:27 am »

Quote from: A_M_Swallow on 01/29/2016 09:15 pm

Quote from: sghill on 01/29/2016 07:17 pm
Moon Express is vacating Pad 36 facilities. Will be moving to LC 17/18 at Canaveral. James Dean at FL Today is tweeting about it today as well.

I was at the Space Florida Board of Directors meeting yesterday and didn't get the impression that anything was amiss with Moon Express. It seemed more like they needed to go somewhere else now that Blue Origin is taking over all of Pad 36 under a new lease.

If Rocket Lab will be performing the space launches then Moon Express will not need to lease a Pad.

That assumes they are done with testing and ready for flight to the Moon!!!

TrevorMonty · « **Reply #59 on:** 04/02/2016 02:15 am »

Here is there first payload.

I'm sure Jeff Bezos would offer Moon Express a free ride for such an important mission. If only Blue had an their orbital LV ready.

Moon Express (@MoonEx) tweeted at 6:18 AM on Sat, Apr 02, 2016:
We're proud to announce our newest payload to the Moon. #LLAP #TrumpThat https://t.co/Ao9fNY2lL7
(https://twitter.com/MoonEx/status/715951432407588864)