Author Topic: Dream Chaser ETA review promotes positives despite anomaly  (Read 57145 times)

Offline Rocket Science

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Re: Dream Chaser ETA review promotes positives despite anomaly
« Reply #60 on: 10/30/2013 09:01 PM »
A quick way to silence the “cacophony of squawking geese” would be for SNC get DC all refurbished and ready for flight ASAP. Give her a nice shiny rollout and ready for ALT photo op... ;)
« Last Edit: 10/30/2013 09:14 PM by Rocket Science »
"The laws of physics are unforgiving"
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Offline iamlucky13

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Re: Dream Chaser ETA review promotes positives despite anomaly
« Reply #61 on: 10/30/2013 10:14 PM »

I have worked in several industries over my career.  One common thread I noted is that all corporations are loath to publicize safety issues, including accidents and incidents.

It's not just corporations. It happens widely in government, too. Usually problems in the government have to be pulled tooth and nail by the media. Examples range from the divide between Congress and the Executive Branch about details of the Fast and Furious gun trafficking enforcement program to the stories created about Army Ranger Pat Tillman's death in Afghanistan even though the military knew it was most likely a tragic friendly fire incident.

When it comes to discussing failures, NASA is a very rare exception to the norm. They've come to terms with that aspect of being a highly visible agency, and have turned disclosure into part of their process of failure analysis. Aside from aircraft accident investigations, I struggle to think of examples of such openness elsewhere.


3) One of my end of year feature articles is going to be based an overview (no restrictions on it) of all the Dragon flights so far, where all the little faults are overviewed. They did the same with the ASAP too. So how they act with the media is not the same as how open they are with the likes of ASAP, NASA, etc.

Bloody heck, everything revolves back to SpaceX! ;D

I suspected as much - Just because it doesn't discussed in a press conference doesn't mean the people who matter are unaware of what happened, why, and how it will be fixed. Thank you for confirming.

It seems to me that moots a lot of the above discussion.

Offline spectre9

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Re: Dream Chaser ETA review promotes positives despite anomaly
« Reply #62 on: 10/30/2013 10:44 PM »
In my opinion SNC shot themselves in the foot by not releasing the footage.

That Proton explosion was on the nightly news around the world.

All press is good press, people would say "Hey what is that cool space plane?" and find out more.

Anyway the article was great and covers everything about the test.

The flight did look quite good but we need to remember this isn't a plane competition it's a spacecraft competition. Do runways landing introduce an extra failure mode with the landing gear?

Want to see a land landing that works? Here you go.



Personally I'd be a little annoyed if SNC was paid out for that test. It did not demonstrate it could land safely on wheels and skid from drop speed. They should be held accountable for their failure and try again. If they skimped on the landing gear by using salvaged parts that failed they need to own up to it.

Offline rickl

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Re: Dream Chaser ETA review promotes positives despite anomaly
« Reply #63 on: 10/30/2013 11:03 PM »
I wonder if Boeing and SNC used the same helicopter?   ;)
The Space Age is just starting to get interesting.

Offline robertross

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Re: Dream Chaser ETA review promotes positives despite anomaly
« Reply #64 on: 10/30/2013 11:27 PM »
In my opinion SNC shot themselves in the foot by not releasing the footage.

I don't know if I subscribe to that, but I hope that, wth a successful follow-on test, they can release it then as a point of fact to show that despite a nasty tumble, she can still fly.

If we could see one tenth of the testing failures in the world, we'd probably be so scared we'd never leave the house.
Remembering those who made the ultimate sacrifice for our rights & freedoms, and for those injured, visible or otherwise, in that fight.

Offline Khadgars

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Re: Dream Chaser ETA review promotes positives despite anomaly
« Reply #65 on: 10/30/2013 11:34 PM »
In my opinion SNC shot themselves in the foot by not releasing the footage.

That Proton explosion was on the nightly news around the world.

All press is good press, people would say "Hey what is that cool space plane?" and find out more.

Anyway the article was great and covers everything about the test.


How is it the same?  That was a operational mission, this was a test flight two very different things.  For the first manned flight you can bet there will be live coverage and no "red button".

Offline rickl

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Re: Dream Chaser ETA review promotes positives despite anomaly
« Reply #66 on: 10/30/2013 11:58 PM »
I already posted this on the Gravity thread, but it's too good not to put it here as well.

In this Washington Post article, a commenter said:

Quote
Sandra Bullock would have gotten that gear down.
« Last Edit: 10/30/2013 11:59 PM by rickl »
The Space Age is just starting to get interesting.

Offline robertross

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Re: Dream Chaser ETA review promotes positives despite anomaly
« Reply #67 on: 10/31/2013 12:06 AM »
I already posted this on the Gravity thread, but it's too good not to put it here as well.

In this Washington Post article, a commenter said:

Quote
Sandra Bullock would have gotten that gear down.

Let's not go there please

In less than 2 seconds? Not likely. She'd hit the wrong button a couple times for not having flown it before.

Moving on...
Remembering those who made the ultimate sacrifice for our rights & freedoms, and for those injured, visible or otherwise, in that fight.

Offline rickl

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Re: Dream Chaser ETA review promotes positives despite anomaly
« Reply #68 on: 10/31/2013 12:14 AM »
I thought it was rather amusing.
The Space Age is just starting to get interesting.

Online Chris Bergin

By the way, the next article will be more of Mark's comments, but with additional info. Aiming to make it about orbital Dream Chasers.

Won't be any mention of tumbles or gear, which is why I opted for two standalone articles from the media event.

Offline a_langwich

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Re: Dream Chaser ETA review promotes positives despite anomaly
« Reply #70 on: 10/31/2013 01:57 AM »
Sure, she looks a mess on the outside, but inside is what counts.

Ah, she does?  Got a pic?  :)

Offline su27k

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Re: Dream Chaser ETA review promotes positives despite anomaly
« Reply #71 on: 10/31/2013 02:45 AM »
Some of the arrogance displayed in this thread is unbelievable, quick tip: Just because you paid for a product or service does NOT entitle you to see everything related to that product or service, it all depends on the contract. i.e. just because you paid a few hundred dollars for a plane ticket does not give you the right to see the cockpit during flight operations, let alone viewing Boeing or Airbus' test flights. NASA signed the contract on behalf of the tax payers, and I think we can safely assume it does not include a clause for public disclosure of test flight videos. If this is the case, then SNC does not own you, the public or the tax payer anything, as long as they are executing the contract, they're doing what they're supposed to do.

Online edkyle99

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Re: Dream Chaser ETA review promotes positives despite anomaly
« Reply #72 on: 10/31/2013 04:15 AM »
Some of the arrogance displayed in this thread is unbelievable, quick tip: Just because you paid for a product or service does NOT entitle you to see everything related to that product or service, it all depends on the contract. i.e. just because you paid a few hundred dollars for a plane ticket does not give you the right to see the cockpit during flight operations, let alone viewing Boeing or Airbus' test flights. NASA signed the contract on behalf of the tax payers, and I think we can safely assume it does not include a clause for public disclosure of test flight videos. If this is the case, then SNC does not own you, the public or the tax payer anything, as long as they are executing the contract, they're doing what they're supposed to do.
This isn't about entitlement.  It has nothing to do with airline cockpit visiting privileges or the right to know everything about the manufacturing of missiles or toasters or smart phones. 

I'm merely pointing out that NASA used to do its work unflinchingly in the open, for all the world to see.  That was the NASA that the world admired.  The U.S. left censorship and propaganda, at least when it came to civil space exploration, to other countries.   Now, partly through the use of these commercial contracts, NASA has become the censor.  It is not arrogant to wonder how this happened, and why.

 - Ed Kyle     

Online docmordrid

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Re: Dream Chaser ETA review promotes positives despite anomaly
« Reply #73 on: 10/31/2013 04:24 AM »
NASA isn't the censor, the companies are because these spacecraft are their intellectual property.  Their IP,  their test programs, their PR rules.
« Last Edit: 10/31/2013 04:30 AM by docmordrid »
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Online edkyle99

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Re: Dream Chaser ETA review promotes positives despite anomaly
« Reply #74 on: 10/31/2013 04:28 AM »

And your analogy to STS-51L does not apply. That was supposedly an operational flight. The early flights of Falcon 1 (SpaceX sitting on that footage) and the recent Dreamchaser free flight were test flights. Different rules with regards to PR generally apply to testflights, particularly when the test-subject is born out of a non-public project.
Was CRS-2 an operational flight?  Someone hit the big red button during that mission.

 - Ed Kyle

What red button? When?
SpaceX cut the video feed without explanation when Dragon failed to pressurize its RCS just after it separated from the second stage.  On previous flights it maintained video until the solar arrays deployed.  We were left wondering what happened for some time until Elon Musk himself provided an update via. Twitter.  Even then we didn't know the real issue.  I raised this example of a commercial firm cutting off the video when failure occurred while asking why we should expect any different during a crewed flight performed for NASA by the same, or by any other, commercial firm.

 - Ed Kyle
« Last Edit: 10/31/2013 04:29 AM by edkyle99 »

Offline Jason1701

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Re: Dream Chaser ETA review promotes positives despite anomaly
« Reply #75 on: 10/31/2013 04:33 AM »

And your analogy to STS-51L does not apply. That was supposedly an operational flight. The early flights of Falcon 1 (SpaceX sitting on that footage) and the recent Dreamchaser free flight were test flights. Different rules with regards to PR generally apply to testflights, particularly when the test-subject is born out of a non-public project.
Was CRS-2 an operational flight?  Someone hit the big red button during that mission.

 - Ed Kyle

What red button? When?
SpaceX cut the video feed without explanation when Dragon failed to pressurize its RCS just after it separated from the second stage.  On previous flights it maintained video until the solar arrays deployed.  We were left wondering what happened for some time until Elon Musk himself provided an update via. Twitter.  Even then we didn't know the real issue.  I raised this example of a commercial firm cutting off the video when failure occurred while asking why we should expect any different during a crewed flight performed for NASA by the same, or by any other, commercial firm.

 - Ed Kyle

The video feed lasted as long after launch as it had on COTS-2 and CRS-1. We just didn't see the solar arrays deploy because they decided to wait a few orbits to do that.

Online edkyle99

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Re: Dream Chaser ETA review promotes positives despite anomaly
« Reply #76 on: 10/31/2013 04:37 AM »
The video feed lasted as long after launch as it had on COTS-2 and CRS-1. We just didn't see the solar arrays deploy because they decided to wait a few orbits to do that.
Video was purposely cut off.  That's the point.

- Ed Kyle
« Last Edit: 10/31/2013 04:45 AM by edkyle99 »

Offline woods170

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Re: Dream Chaser ETA review promotes positives despite anomaly
« Reply #77 on: 10/31/2013 06:58 AM »
The video feed lasted as long after launch as it had on COTS-2 and CRS-1. We just didn't see the solar arrays deploy because they decided to wait a few orbits to do that.
Video was purposely cut off.  That's the point.

- Ed Kyle

Where and when did a SpaceX official acknowledge that the video was cut-off on purpose?

Offline Silmfeanor

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Re: Dream Chaser ETA review promotes positives despite anomaly
« Reply #78 on: 10/31/2013 06:59 AM »
Please make a new thread about this; space censorship et cetera or something like that.
There you can talk about SpaceX feeds and why Orbital is communist for not showing dream chaser till it came to a full stop.

Offline woods170

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Re: Dream Chaser ETA review promotes positives despite anomaly
« Reply #79 on: 10/31/2013 07:22 AM »
Please make a new thread about this; space censorship et cetera or something like that.
There you can talk about SpaceX feeds and why Orbital is communist for not showing dream chaser till it came to a full stop.


Done. Discussion can continue here: http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=33182.0

Edit: I have requested the mods to migrate the posts involving discussion about information release by commercial crew companies to the new thread.
« Last Edit: 10/31/2013 07:39 AM by woods170 »

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