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Long March-4B launch with Shijian 16 - Jiuquan - October 25, 2013
by
Galactic Penguin SST
on 23 Oct, 2013 10:13
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OK the number of question marks is reaching ridiculous levels, but please carry on reading the rest of the post.....
It appears that the follow on constellation to the SJ-6 series may be going up soon, but what it consists of, what will be its name, what is launching it (them?) and even where it will go out are rather unclear. The only thing we know is:
1. It is being launched on a CZ-4 series rocket
2. It "should be" going out of Jiuquan (but that's just a guess from the tight scheduling of the 2 LEO launch centers)
3. It "should" consist of multiple satellites
4. It "should" get a SJ-X designation, where X isn't 6, 11 or 13; and is probably distinct from YG-18 now in Taiyuan
5.
It "should" be launching rather soon - hints have came out already by mid-September, but the vague hints and another secret yet entirely not related launch from Jiuquan on Sept. 25 has muddled the water even further
6. All active Chinese tracking ships are not at sea
Sooo...... what now?
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#1
by
Phillip Clark
on 23 Oct, 2013 11:03
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Isn't this uncertainty fun? :-) It's like the good ol' days of secrecy.
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#2
by
Galactic Penguin SST
on 25 Oct, 2013 06:30
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Well.........without any hints this was launched as SJ-16 today at 03:50 UTC! More news coming soon....
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#3
by
Galactic Penguin SST
on 25 Oct, 2013 07:03
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Well..... back in September in a Chinese spaceflight forum I tried to fit this launch (at that time assumed launching with a CZ-4C) with an ELINT satellite in a Molniya orbit. Turns out that I was wrong.....however the orbit is just as strange: NORAD is reporting an object in an 599*616*74.98 deg. orbit (which explains the first time use of a CZ-4B from JSLC - there's no way of launching a satellite into 75 deg. inclination orbits from Taiyuan without dropping stages into places with lots of residents). Anyone knows what satellites have a similar orbit?
BTW the official news reports that the satellite will be used for "space environment measurements & technology testing" - so that essentially confirms that it is the follow-on to the SJ-6 series.
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#4
by
Galactic Penguin SST
on 25 Oct, 2013 07:21
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#5
by
input~2
on 25 Oct, 2013 10:24
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2 objects have been catalogued by USSTRATCOM:
39358/2013-057A in 599 x 616 km x 74.98° (epoch Oct 25, 0455UTC)
39359/ 2013-057B in 476 x 603 km x 75.03° (epoch Oct 25, 0630UTC)
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#6
by
Satori
on 25 Oct, 2013 10:57
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#7
by
Satori
on 25 Oct, 2013 11:45
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Launch time 0350:03.536UTC ?
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#8
by
input~2
on 25 Oct, 2013 11:46
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#9
by
input~2
on 25 Oct, 2013 12:13
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Anyone knows what satellites have a similar orbit?
Kondor (Cosmos 2487), a Russian radar IMINT S/C launched last June is now in
494 x 498 km x 74.74°
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#10
by
Chris Bergin
on 25 Oct, 2013 12:51
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#11
by
Star One
on 25 Oct, 2013 13:14
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#12
by
Galactic Penguin SST
on 25 Oct, 2013 13:16
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#13
by
input~2
on 25 Oct, 2013 13:27
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#14
by
input~2
on 25 Oct, 2013 13:37
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Definitely looks a follow up series with two objects being catalogued after launch.
The second object (2013-057B) could be CZ-4B 3rd stage
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#15
by
input~2
on 25 Oct, 2013 16:41
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Debris of the first stage were found near Amuquhu village in Gansu province (N344838 E1024124), some 700 km SE of JSLC.
(
source via 9ifly)
edit: More precisely, the debris location is said to be halfway between Amchogཨ་མཆོག (Amuquhu) and Sangkog (Sangke), ie N345510 E1023438
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#16
by
Lars_J
on 25 Oct, 2013 16:52
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I haven't seen many Chinese launches, but is it normal for the rocket to shed so much debris at launch?
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#17
by
Satori
on 25 Oct, 2013 16:59
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I haven't seen many Chinese launches, but is it normal for the rocket to shed so much debris at launch?
Yes, it is.
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#18
by
Lars_J
on 25 Oct, 2013 17:14
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I haven't seen many Chinese launches, but is it normal for the rocket to shed so much debris at launch?
Yes, it is.
Then what are the pieces? Insulation panels for the fairing?
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#19
by
russianhalo117
on 25 Oct, 2013 17:16
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I haven't seen many Chinese launches, but is it normal for the rocket to shed so much debris at launch?
Yes, it is.
Then what are the pieces? Insulation panels for the fairing?
Protective covers and insulation primarily
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#20
by
Phillip Clark
on 25 Oct, 2013 17:23
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Maybe I am missing something basic, but I do not see Shijian 16 as being a follow-on to the three pairs of Shijian 6 satellites. The orbit inclination is different and the obvious difference is that the Shijian 6 satellites were *pairs*, not singletons. One satellite of each pair was supposed to be based upon the FY-1 platform and the other - the manoeuvring satellite - was a CAST-968 class platform.
Of course, I could be completely wrong about this but i am keeping an open mind about Shijian 16 at present.
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#21
by
weedenbc
on 25 Oct, 2013 19:49
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It could be that this is testing a different technology than the previous SJ satellites. The name translates as "practice" and it may be that they are testing different technologies and types of satellites as the series evolves.
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#22
by
Phillip Clark
on 25 Oct, 2013 20:01
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It could be that this is testing a different technology than the previous SJ satellites. The name translates as "practice" and it may be that they are testing different technologies and types of satellites as the series evolves.
Many years ago I recall reading that Shijian means "practice" "in the political sense" - ie, the way of doing things rather than testing. Maybe a Chinese-speaker could clarify please?
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#23
by
Star One
on 25 Oct, 2013 21:42
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Definitely looks a follow up series with two objects being catalogued after launch.
The second object (2013-057B) could be CZ-4B 3rd stage
That's possible.
Seems an unusual orbit, haven't been able to find much in the way of satellites in similar orbits.
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#24
by
frank808
on 25 Oct, 2013 21:46
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It could be that this is testing a different technology than the previous SJ satellites. The name translates as "practice" and it may be that they are testing different technologies and types of satellites as the series evolves.
Many years ago I recall reading that Shijian means "practice" "in the political sense" - ie, the way of doing things rather than testing. Maybe a Chinese-speaker could clarify please?
Shijian does mean "practise" in Chinese. It represents a kind of satellites used for testing new technology.
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#25
by
Galactic Penguin SST
on 26 Oct, 2013 03:50
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This launch used CZ-4B s/n Y25.
Source
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#26
by
jcm
on 26 Oct, 2013 18:06
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It could be that this is testing a different technology than the previous SJ satellites. The name translates as "practice" and it may be that they are testing different technologies and types of satellites as the series evolves.
Many years ago I recall reading that Shijian means "practice" "in the political sense" - ie, the way of doing things rather than testing. Maybe a Chinese-speaker could clarify please?
Shijian does mean "practise" in Chinese. It represents a kind of satellites used for testing new technology.
The question was which of the two English meanings of "practise" applies.
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#27
by
weedenbc
on 26 Oct, 2013 23:17
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A very interesting post here from Bob Christy suggesting that the inclination for this launch could be related to the need to test their new TT&C center in Western Australia:
http://www.zarya.info/blog/?p=1712
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#28
by
Galactic Penguin SST
on 27 Oct, 2013 13:03
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A very interesting post here from Bob Christy suggesting that the inclination for this launch could be related to the need to test their new TT&C center in Western Australia:
http://www.zarya.info/blog/?p=1712
I have doubt that testing ground stations is a major objective of the launch - although it is certainly plausible that the Australian ground station has been put into service for this. The 75 degree orbit is roughly similar to the Soviet/Russian ELINT reconnaissance satellites - particularly the Tselina series, which are in 70-80 degrees inclination low Earth orbits.
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#29
by
weedenbc
on 27 Oct, 2013 14:28
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Right - didn't mean to suggest that was the only reason for the launch, but that it could be part of it. Maybe they had a remote sensing technology to test that didn't need to be in an operational Sun-sync orbit at this phase in development. So they could have killed two birds with one stone by putting it into the inclination they did.
It will be telling if they put up another satellite into a complementary orbit in the near future (same inc but opposing in RAAN for example).
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#30
by
Star One
on 28 Oct, 2013 08:55
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Are there any pictures of the first stage of this launch as I read elsewhere it had come down relatively intact near a village?
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#31
by
input~2
on 28 Oct, 2013 09:05
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Are there any pictures of the first stage of this launch as I read elsewhere it had come down relatively intact near a village?
Did you read
this upthread?
and here is one more picture:
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#32
by
Star One
on 28 Oct, 2013 17:21
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Are there any pictures of the first stage of this launch as I read elsewhere it had come down relatively intact near a village?
Did you read this upthread?
and here is one more picture:
I am bemused I have just gone all the way back through this thread on Tapatalk & cannot see that post?
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#33
by
input~2
on 28 Oct, 2013 19:33
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I am bemused I have just gone all the way back through this thread on Tapatalk & cannot see that post?
Well, I can see it OK on Tapatalk...
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#34
by
Star One
on 29 Oct, 2013 08:37
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I am bemused I have just gone all the way back through this thread on Tapatalk & cannot see that post?
Well, I can see it OK on Tapatalk...
Oh well I have no answer to that.
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#35
by
input~2
on 31 Oct, 2013 21:10
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Fairing debris were spotted near Maiwa village (N330339 E1025451) Sichuan province
(
source)
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#36
by
russianhalo117
on 31 Oct, 2013 23:47
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Fairing debris were spotted near Maiwa village (N330339 E1025451) Sichuan province
(source)
Nice angled bulls eye in the ground. It Reminds me of the average angle that my friend ends up with when we throw darts.
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#37
by
luhai167
on 05 Nov, 2013 05:50
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It could be that this is testing a different technology than the previous SJ satellites. The name translates as "practice" and it may be that they are testing different technologies and types of satellites as the series evolves.
Many years ago I recall reading that Shijian means "practice" "in the political sense" - ie, the way of doing things rather than testing. Maybe a Chinese-speaker could clarify please?
Shijian does mean "practise" in Chinese. It represents a kind of satellites used for testing new technology.
The question was which of the two English meanings of "practise" applies.
Chinese Lesson time
Shijian实践, if you look at the word separately, Shi means Reality (in the sense of physical reality, things you can touch), and jian means to implement. Hence, together it means to implement (theory or idea) into reality.
A related word, Shiyan, 实验 or experiment。 with Shi still meaning Reality, and yan meaning verify. Hence to verify (theory or idea) in reality. This is used mostly in the context hypothesis -experiment-conclusion context.
For brand new experiments, it's 试验, Shiyan. With a different shi meaning trial, with yan still meaning verify. The is used mostly in the context of testing a new technology based on know scientific principles. It should be noted, the official description for Shijian series is 科学探测与技术试验卫星, or Scientific exploration and Technology experiments Satellite. With Experiment being the Trial-Verify type rather than Reality-verify type.
Why using Shijian then you say, well, remember the program is born during the height of Cultural Revolution, and the name is from one of Mao's essay*. So basically it's the same reason Dongfeng (East Wind) is name of the Chinese missile program, Changzheng or Long March and Dongfanghong (East is Red) is the name of Chinese communication satellites. See below.
*The Gist of the essay is the following:
All logical knowledge must be put to practice in order to substantiate its truth-value.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_Practice
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#38
by
Liss
on 05 Nov, 2013 07:30
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So the word Shijian should be understood in a classical Marxist sense, as in "practice is the criterion of truth".
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#39
by
limen4
on 05 Nov, 2013 17:50
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I found this image on a philatelic website. It shows a commemorative envelope issued by Shanghai Academy of Space Technology, the builder of SJ-16.
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#40
by
luhai167
on 06 Nov, 2013 03:40
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So the word Shijian should be understood in a classical Marxist sense, as in "practice is the criterion of truth".
Yes, when it was originally introduced, it carries that meaning. Now, since China is far less Marxist, it is just another name. In common Chinese language, Shijian simply means "to bring into reality". With few thinks of it in the Marxist sense.
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#41
by
Lewis007
on 10 Aug, 2021 03:35
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