Effect of the Government Shutdown on NASA Activities?

[Riley1066]

What will we be able to see happen/not happen vis a vis NASA activities in the event that the government is forced to shut down on Tuesday?  I know that NASA counts Mission control ops for its science missions as "Essential" and will continue operating at least in maintenance mode ... but what else will happen?

Will nasa.gov and other nasa sites go down?  Will the PAO staff be furloughed?

[rdale]

Today's Washington Post noted that NASA TV commentators will not be around. I would not expect NASA.gov websites to be down, but I'd be surprised if they are updated.

[AnalogMan]

NASA's recent shutdown plans can be found here:

http://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/files/NASA_shutdown_plan_130927.pdf
http://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/files/ShutdownFAQs-09-27-2013-Update.pdf

Attached is a table from the first document showing excepted employee positions for the main NASA centers.
(Note FTE - Full Time Equivalent)

[psloss]

I would expect that IT staff has to stay on the job in case sites get hacked (indeed, if I was a malicious hacker, I'd view this as an opportunity).

The PDF from 27 September that AnalogMan posted the link to seems to imply shutting down access is what Elizabeth Robinson is planning on doing:

NASA Television/website -- Citizens will not have televised access to NASA operations and programming or access to the NASA website.

There are still many secondary NASA websites and it's also possible to shutdown servers (figuratively or not) and have several IT staff exceptions.

IIRC the last time we got close to this before someone blinked, the silliness didn't "end" until well after close of business and we saw some part of the web apparatus taken offline temporarily due to the uncertainty.
Edit: I didn't recall this correctly.

It won't be too long to find out what happens or whether plans change today.

[psloss]

NASA's recent shutdown plans can be found here:

http://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/files/NASA_shutdown_plan_130927.pdf
http://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/files/ShutdownFAQs-09-27-2013-Update.pdf

For comparison, here's the thread from one of the last times (not sure if it was "the" last) they got close to going over the proverbial cliff:
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=24710.0

The link to the shutdown plan from that time is in that thread -- and Chris attached copies at the time in a subsequent post for fairly obvious reasons.

The NASA TV/public communications/outreach "stuff" appears to be very similar, so they may not have had to do much updating.  (And they've had lots of practice preparing for this since then.)

[robertross]

NASA got a sound-bite from the President broadcast live on CNN:

NASA will shut down, with the exception of MCC to support the crew on the space station.

[QuantumG]

Whenever this happens (once a year now?) I wonder if space geeks think:

1) NASA is essential and should remain funded during a government shutdown; or
2) NASA is non-essential but, gosh darn it, we really like it - so we don't like government shutdowns; and generally
3) Governments should do non-essential things because, gosh darn it, we like some of those things!

Of course, no-one ever answers those questions because it would entail actually talking about the issue.

[OpsAnalyst]

Whenever this happens (once a year now?) I wonder if space geeks think:

1) NASA is essential and should remain funded during a government shutdown; or
2) NASA is non-essential but, gosh darn it, we really like it - so we don't like government shutdowns; and generally
3) Governments should do non-essential things because, gosh darn it, we like some of those things!

Of course, no-one ever answers those questions because it would entail actually talking about the issue.

I am both a space geek and a policy wonk and I don't think any of those things.  None of those is even remotely close to a meaningful question.

I think things like:
1) I'm glad MCC is considered "essential" so FC's and crew, ground and space, keep working together as a team in an environment where, gosh-darn-it, a single thing going wrong in the wrong place at the wrong time can equal a really bad day;
2) I don't like gov't shutdowns because they're the blunt end of failed negotiations and represent tactical rather than strategic thinking (and worse, the people engineering them don't know the difference); and
3) Neither party is coming to terms with the math, which doesn't have to do with Obamacare per se, but with a shrinking discretionary budget relative to non-discretionary, combined with debt servicing, combined with a redistribution in wealth toward the upper 1% and away from the base...which when combined with the other two is really really bad news.

That's what I think.  And in my opinion, that last one is closer to the issue (or rather, the collection of issues) that really do have to be discussed and dealt with.  Trying to use the current showdown as some sort of smug metaphor for NASA's problems and whether it represents "essential" or "non-essential" or, as other would have it, whether it should be "gov't" or "commercial" in the face of the real fiscal situation underlying the current ping-pong in DC is missing the forest for a tree.

[QuantumG]

I am both a space geek and a policy wonk and I don't think any of those things.  None of those is even remotely close to a meaningful question.

I think they're meaningful, which is why I'm amused every time people try to have this conversation without making their opinions about them clear first.

It's like having a conversation about the best kind of car without first establishing who drives and who doesn't. Some people are just going to give really strange answers.

Care to actually answer the questions?

[Robotbeat]

Mary Lynne Dittmar for President.

[Justin Space]

As a non American, it's none of my business. But this seems absolutely strange.

Do people get the money they are losing today back? Simply being told you won't get paid today is crazy!

[QuantumG]

It happens here in Australia too. State governments run out of money, go begging for more and get told to learn how to balance a cheque book. No-one gets paid until the next budget.

If you think this is bad, wait until the 17th.. the debt ceiling fight will be even worse.

[Justin Space]

It happens here in Australia too. State governments run out of money, go begging for more and get told to learn how to balance a cheque book. No-one gets paid until the next budget.

If you think this is bad, wait until the 17th.. the debt ceiling fight will be even worse.

Can people claim some sort of benefits support? Simply not getting paid, at all, could result in defaulting on mortgages and such.

I don't think that's happened in the UK before, but I might be wrong.

[psloss]

NASA's recent shutdown plans can be found here:

http://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/files/NASA_shutdown_plan_130927.pdf
http://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/files/ShutdownFAQs-09-27-2013-Update.pdf

Attached is a table from the first document showing excepted employee positions for the main NASA centers.
(Note FTE - Full Time Equivalent)

Q43. What do I do if I hear of a government shutdown?

Answer: Unless you are away from your duty station on approved leave or in a travel status, employees are expected to report to work on the next business day following an announcement of a government shutdown; all who are not excepted from furlough, including those who designated as being on call, will be dismissed and furloughed after completion of orderly shutdown activities.

[Jim]

Meanwhile - today - right now - the lights are on at Hawthorne.

Why just single out Hawthrone?  They are on in Sunnyvale, Dulles, El Segundo, Denver, Decatur, Chandler,etc

[RocketEconomist327]

Meanwhile - today - right now - the lights are on at Hawthorne.

Why just single out Hawthrone?  They are on in Sunnyvale, Dulles, El Segundo, Denver, Decatur, Chandler,etc

Thank you Jim - you are correct.  I used Hawthorne because they are the lightning rod... you remember the whole "paper rocket" debate.

Thanks again Jim for keeping it real.

VR
RE327

[Chris Bergin]

Anyone who mentions party politics will have their post removed. Doesn't matter if it's a 1000 word post, with a line of "OMG Republicans" or "OMG Liberals" - That post won't be edited, it'll be removed.

PS Commercial space is heavily impacted by this too. Such as SNC with Dream Chaser.

[kaa]

To return to the original question: I know that at least some websites are being shut down. Also, although the NASA e-mail system remains in operation people who are not exempted employees have been told not to use it. So, don't expect to get any replies if you e-mail a nasa.gov address.

[Blackstar]

http://www.nasa.gov/

Is still up.

[Galactic Penguin SST]

http://www.nasa.gov/

Is still up.

Hmm....it wasn't about 7 hours ago.