Author Topic: DARPA Experimental Spaceplane 1 (XS-1) Program  (Read 278460 times)

Online TrevorMonty

Re: DARPA Experimental Spaceplane 1 (XS-1) Program
« Reply #780 on: 01/04/2018 03:14 AM »
You try to compare apples with orangeds. Shuttle was booster engines + upper stage + crew and had to handle LEO reentry speeds. The XSP is engine, fuel tanks reentry speed is only 10-20% of Shuttle.

The ARJ engines maybe 30-40yrs old but they haven't been stored in a barn for last 30years.

Offline UltraViolet9

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Re: DARPA Experimental Spaceplane 1 (XS-1) Program
« Reply #781 on: 01/08/2018 08:06 PM »
BTW I've met Jess Sponable and I liked him a lot.

I just noticed today that Jess left DARPA and XS-P around November last year (2017).

The new PM is Scott Wierzbanowski, who was the SETA lead for XS-P under Jess and who also took over GREMLINs.

https://www.darpa.mil/program/experimental-space-plane

Jess's LinkedIn profile indicates that he's been consulting through his own LLC since last November.

My read is that the program is being redirected unsubtlely. It provides a means for a response to certain threats, at a different scale than intended, and compromises on the economics of operation to get there.

I don't know if Jess's leaving has anything to do with that.

But I'd be interested if anyone else has an insight.

Offline john smith 19

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Re: DARPA Experimental Spaceplane 1 (XS-1) Program
« Reply #782 on: 02/18/2018 04:41 PM »
BTW I've met Jess Sponable and I liked him a lot.

I just noticed today that Jess left DARPA and XS-P around November last year (2017).

The new PM is Scott Wierzbanowski, who was the SETA lead for XS-P under Jess and who also took over GREMLINs.

https://www.darpa.mil/program/experimental-space-plane

Jess's LinkedIn profile indicates that he's been consulting through his own LLC since last November.
Oh dear. That does not bode well for a programme going to completion and getting something built.  :(
BFS. The worlds first Methane fueled FFORSC engined CFRP structured A380 sized aerospaceplane tail sitter capable of flying in Earth and Mars atmospheres. BFR. The worlds biggest Methane fueled FFORSC engined CFRP structured booster for BFS. First flight to Mars by end of 2022. Forward looking statements. T&C apply. Believe no one. Run your own numbers. So, you are going to Mars to start a better life? Picture it in your mind. Now say what it is out loud.

Offline Davidthefat

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Online envy887

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Offline Elmar Moelzer

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Re: DARPA Experimental Spaceplane 1 (XS-1) Program
« Reply #785 on: 06/05/2018 04:49 AM »
First AR-22 engine assembled.

http://rocket.com/article/first-engine-assembled-darpa-and-boeing-reusable-experimental-spaceplane
The amount of progress over the past year is truly staggering /sarkasm

Offline deruch

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Re: DARPA Experimental Spaceplane 1 (XS-1) Program
« Reply #786 on: 06/06/2018 10:08 PM »
First AR-22 engine assembled.

http://rocket.com/article/first-engine-assembled-darpa-and-boeing-reusable-experimental-spaceplane
The amount of progress over the past year is truly staggering /sarkasm

My favorite bit is that they went to the trouble to give metric conversions, but then converted pounds-force to kilograms instead of newtons.  :-[

Quote
The AR-22 engine is capable of generating about 375,000 pounds (170,097 kg) of thrust

Should be ~1.67 MN.
Shouldn't reality posts be in "Advanced concepts"?  --Nomadd

Online hkultala

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Re: DARPA Experimental Spaceplane 1 (XS-1) Program
« Reply #787 on: 06/07/2018 05:11 AM »
[offtopic]

It always amused me that Shuttle had a stack mass of about 4000 000lbs and a payload (in the bay) of 55 000. IE it had the performance of an SSTO and the mass of a multi stage ELV. IOW the worst of both worlds.  :( It was however the only way to deliver a vehicle on the budget without going Biemese or Triemese.

Was it really? wouldn't expendable S-IC booster with J-2S based serial-staged orbiter have been much cheaper to develop?

Not done because expending S-IC was considered to be too expensive, but might in the end have actually been much cheaper for total costs as the flight rate ended up being much smaller than originally planned.

[/offtopic]

Offline john smith 19

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Re: DARPA Experimental Spaceplane 1 (XS-1) Program
« Reply #788 on: 06/07/2018 05:52 AM »
[offtopic]

It always amused me that Shuttle had a stack mass of about 4000 000lbs and a payload (in the bay) of 55 000. IE it had the performance of an SSTO and the mass of a multi stage ELV. IOW the worst of both worlds.  :( It was however the only way to deliver a vehicle on the budget without going Biemese or Triemese.

Was it really? wouldn't expendable S-IC booster with J-2S based serial-staged orbiter have been much cheaper to develop?

Not done because expending S-IC was considered to be too expensive, but might in the end have actually been much cheaper for total costs as the flight rate ended up being much smaller than originally planned.

[/offtopic]
Within the constraint the system be at least partly reusable.
BFS. The worlds first Methane fueled FFORSC engined CFRP structured A380 sized aerospaceplane tail sitter capable of flying in Earth and Mars atmospheres. BFR. The worlds biggest Methane fueled FFORSC engined CFRP structured booster for BFS. First flight to Mars by end of 2022. Forward looking statements. T&C apply. Believe no one. Run your own numbers. So, you are going to Mars to start a better life? Picture it in your mind. Now say what it is out loud.

Offline su27k

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Re: DARPA Experimental Spaceplane 1 (XS-1) Program
« Reply #789 on: 07/04/2018 04:35 AM »
AR-22 and Phantom Express making progress: http://spacenews.com/engine-tests-underway-for-darpa-spaceplane-program/

Quote
The Aerojet Rocketdyne AR-22 engine is in the midst of a series of 10 100-second engine firings over the course of 10 days at NASA’s Stennis Space Center in Mississippi. As of July 2 the company has completed six such tests and was on track to complete the rest on schedule.

Quote
Boeing is beginning to build hardware for the Phantom Express vehicle. The vehicle’s liquid oxygen tank, made of composite materials, is currently in an autoclave being cured, said Steve Johnston of Boeing. “We’re in the production of flight hardware, from a tank standpoint.”

Offline wally

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Re: DARPA Experimental Spaceplane 1 (XS-1) Program
« Reply #790 on: 07/04/2018 07:10 AM »
How come Boeing calls the engine AR-22 and NASA still calls it RS-25, since both of them are just the same hardware with a different, updated, flight controller?

Also, since Aerojet Rocketdyne (relatively) recently restarted RS-25 production, could the newly manufactured engines be used on future XS-1 vehicles?

Offline Steven Pietrobon

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Re: DARPA Experimental Spaceplane 1 (XS-1) Program
« Reply #791 on: 07/04/2018 07:38 AM »
Since the AR-22 is built up from old and spare parts, it could be a unique configuration and as such, received a separate designation.
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

Online russianhalo117

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Re: DARPA Experimental Spaceplane 1 (XS-1) Program
« Reply #792 on: 07/04/2018 03:36 PM »
How come Boeing calls the engine AR-22 and NASA still calls it RS-25, since both of them are just the same hardware with a different, updated, flight controller?

Also, since Aerojet Rocketdyne (relatively) recently restarted RS-25 production, could the newly manufactured engines be used on future XS-1 vehicles?
AFAIK, AR-22 is derated slightly to allow 10 flights in tens days so probably a reason for the name change. AR-25 was proposed for RS-25E but renaming has not yet been approved. The flight controller is a so called universal version of the SLS RS-25 flight controller which is intended to transition all of its engines to a common controller.

Online envy887

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Re: DARPA Experimental Spaceplane 1 (XS-1) Program
« Reply #793 on: 07/10/2018 06:53 PM »
Well, they fired the AR-22 10 times in 10 days. One hurdle down.

https://twitter.com/DARPA/status/1015309159758213120

Quote
10 successful 100-second AR-22 engine firings in 240 hours! The @AerojetRdyne, @NASA, @BoeingSpace & DARPA team just proved the propulsion system is ready for our Experimental #Spaceplane program's goal to launch on demand with rapid turnaround.
« Last Edit: 07/10/2018 06:54 PM by envy887 »

Offline yg1968

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Offline wally

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Re: DARPA Experimental Spaceplane 1 (XS-1) Program
« Reply #795 on: 07/17/2018 02:19 PM »
An article on the Phantom Express:
https://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-boeing-phantom-express-20180716-story.html#

Unfortunately, our website is currently unavailable in most European countries. We are engaged on the issue and committed to looking at options that support our full range of digital offerings to the EU market. We continue to identify technical compliance solutions that will provide all readers with our award-winning journalism.

Online eeergo

Re: DARPA Experimental Spaceplane 1 (XS-1) Program
« Reply #796 on: 07/17/2018 04:13 PM »
Unfortunately, our website is currently unavailable in most European countries. We are engaged on the issue and committed to looking at options that support our full range of digital offerings to the EU market. We continue to identify technical compliance solutions that will provide all readers with our award-winning journalism.

VPN
-DaviD-

Offline wally

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DARPA Experimental Spaceplane 1 (XS-1) Program
« Reply #797 on: 07/17/2018 04:15 PM »
It will help a lot and it would be so much easy if someone would just copy and paste the content of the article somewhere (hint: pastebin)
« Last Edit: 07/17/2018 04:27 PM by wally »

Online eeergo

Re: DARPA Experimental Spaceplane 1 (XS-1) Program
« Reply #798 on: 07/17/2018 04:27 PM »
It will help a lot and it would so much easy if someone would just copy and paste the content of the article somewhere :)

Now that would be against the journal's copyright, wouldn't it?

If you would like to read the full article and you get geographical restrictions, spend a few minutes on getting one of the many free, easy-to-use VPN tools available.

Information tidbits: first test flight scheduled for 2021, AR-22's 10 hotfires in 240h, vehicle intended to measure 100' long and 62' wide vertical takeoff, horizontal landing suborbital spaceplane with a deployable expendable kick stage for orbital deliveries up to 3000 lb, composite structures have heritage from the 787 development. Launch costs aimed at <$5M, government investment at $146M plus a "significant" but undisclosed amount by Boeing.
-DaviD-

Offline wally

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Re: DARPA Experimental Spaceplane 1 (XS-1) Program
« Reply #799 on: 07/17/2018 04:29 PM »
And using a VPN isn’t against journal copyright rules? Since I’m not physically located in the US.

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