Author Topic: Boeing's CST-100 capsule updates & discussion THREAD 2  (Read 520862 times)

Offline Garrett

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1108
  • France
  • Liked: 111
  • Likes Given: 77
Re: Boeing's CST-100 capsule updates & discussion THREAD 2
« Reply #320 on: 05/20/2014 01:41 pm »
I see 2 dates throughout 2017 for orbital tests but I have not seen any dates mentioned for a Pad abort and/or In-flight abort? Which I'm assuming would need to be towards the end of 2016? Will there be an additional Atlas V available for an in-flight abort test in 2016?
The way things are going you have to wonder if there will be an Atlas spare by then.
Maybe they'll have to seriously start considering an alternative launcher.
ULA already has 2 yrs of RD-180 engine stock and I believe they recently asked NPO Energomash to increase their supply rate from once per year to once every 6 months (citation needed ;) )
So from what I understand, Atlas V will continue as normal until at least 2017.
- "Nothing shocks me. I'm a scientist." - Indiana Jones

Offline Star One

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10062
  • UK
  • Liked: 1983
  • Likes Given: 197
Re: Boeing's CST-100 capsule updates & discussion THREAD 2
« Reply #321 on: 05/20/2014 02:28 pm »

I see 2 dates throughout 2017 for orbital tests but I have not seen any dates mentioned for a Pad abort and/or In-flight abort? Which I'm assuming would need to be towards the end of 2016? Will there be an additional Atlas V available for an in-flight abort test in 2016?
The way things are going you have to wonder if there will be an Atlas spare by then.
Maybe they'll have to seriously start considering an alternative launcher.
ULA already has 2 yrs of RD-180 engine stock and I believe they recently asked NPO Energomash to increase their supply rate from once per year to once every 6 months (citation needed ;) )
So from what I understand, Atlas V will continue as normal until at least 2017.

I really doubt that situation as outlined here is going to remain the same. Also what engines they do have will go to priority national defence payloads not to this.

Offline arachnitect

  • Member
  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1442
  • Liked: 391
  • Likes Given: 463
Re: Boeing's CST-100 capsule updates & discussion THREAD 2
« Reply #322 on: 05/20/2014 04:50 pm »
Doesn't need to be an Atlas for an abort test. In fact that would be a waste of an expensive booster.

Maybe not for the pad abort, but for the in-flight abort test you would need a flight configuration Atlas V LV.

That's how they originally planned to do it, but if RD-180 becomes as priceless as people think they have other ways of doing an inflight abort test ("little joe" type of vehicle).


I see 2 dates throughout 2017 for orbital tests but I have not seen any dates mentioned for a Pad abort and/or In-flight abort? Which I'm assuming would need to be towards the end of 2016? Will there be an additional Atlas V available for an in-flight abort test in 2016?
The way things are going you have to wonder if there will be an Atlas spare by then.
Maybe they'll have to seriously start considering an alternative launcher.
ULA already has 2 yrs of RD-180 engine stock and I believe they recently asked NPO Energomash to increase their supply rate from once per year to once every 6 months (citation needed ;) )
So from what I understand, Atlas V will continue as normal until at least 2017.

I really doubt that situation as outlined here is going to remain the same. Also what engines they do have will go to priority national defence payloads not to this.

I thought the Russians were only threatening to withhold the engine for national security payloads, in which case we could continue to use Atlas V for crew transportation.

Offline Star One

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10062
  • UK
  • Liked: 1983
  • Likes Given: 197
Re: Boeing's CST-100 capsule updates & discussion THREAD 2
« Reply #323 on: 05/20/2014 05:34 pm »

Doesn't need to be an Atlas for an abort test. In fact that would be a waste of an expensive booster.

Maybe not for the pad abort, but for the in-flight abort test you would need a flight configuration Atlas V LV.

That's how they originally planned to do it, but if RD-180 becomes as priceless as people think they have other ways of doing an inflight abort test ("little joe" type of vehicle).


I see 2 dates throughout 2017 for orbital tests but I have not seen any dates mentioned for a Pad abort and/or In-flight abort? Which I'm assuming would need to be towards the end of 2016? Will there be an additional Atlas V available for an in-flight abort test in 2016?
The way things are going you have to wonder if there will be an Atlas spare by then.
Maybe they'll have to seriously start considering an alternative launcher.
ULA already has 2 yrs of RD-180 engine stock and I believe they recently asked NPO Energomash to increase their supply rate from once per year to once every 6 months (citation needed ;) )
So from what I understand, Atlas V will continue as normal until at least 2017.

I really doubt that situation as outlined here is going to remain the same. Also what engines they do have will go to priority national defence payloads not to this.

I thought the Russians were only threatening to withhold the engine for national security payloads, in which case we could continue to use Atlas V for crew transportation.

It depends how they define national security payloads though doesn't it.

Online guckyfan

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6870
  • Germany
  • Liked: 1861
  • Likes Given: 1906
Re: Boeing's CST-100 capsule updates & discussion THREAD 2
« Reply #324 on: 05/20/2014 05:51 pm »

I really doubt that situation as outlined here is going to remain the same. Also what engines they do have will go to priority national defence payloads not to this.
I thought the Russians were only threatening to withhold the engine for national security payloads, in which case we could continue to use Atlas V for crew transportation.

Assuming the announcement will be enacted as formulated: Continuing delivery would depend on the US-government plediging not to use RD-180 for military purposes. How likely is such a pledge? Would that pledge need to include the present stock?
« Last Edit: 05/20/2014 05:52 pm by guckyfan »

Offline Star One

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10062
  • UK
  • Liked: 1983
  • Likes Given: 197
Re: Boeing's CST-100 capsule updates & discussion THREAD 2
« Reply #325 on: 05/20/2014 06:49 pm »


I really doubt that situation as outlined here is going to remain the same. Also what engines they do have will go to priority national defence payloads not to this.
I thought the Russians were only threatening to withhold the engine for national security payloads, in which case we could continue to use Atlas V for crew transportation.

Assuming the announcement will be enacted as formulated: Continuing delivery would depend on the US-government plediging not to use RD-180 for military purposes. How likely is such a pledge? Would that pledge need to include the present stock?

Could you imagine any US administration giving that kind of pledge, as I can't.

Online guckyfan

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6870
  • Germany
  • Liked: 1861
  • Likes Given: 1906
Re: Boeing's CST-100 capsule updates & discussion THREAD 2
« Reply #326 on: 05/20/2014 07:01 pm »



Assuming the announcement will be enacted as formulated: Continuing delivery would depend on the US-government plediging not to use RD-180 for military purposes. How likely is such a pledge? Would that pledge need to include the present stock?

Could you imagine any US administration giving that kind of pledge, as I can't.

Exactly my point. That would mean no RD-180 for civilian use. Again: If enacted as formulated.

Offline Nomadd

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3728
  • Boca Chica, Texas
  • Liked: 9933
  • Likes Given: 408
Re: Boeing's CST-100 capsule updates & discussion THREAD 2
« Reply #327 on: 05/20/2014 07:06 pm »
I see 2 dates throughout 2017 for orbital tests but I have not seen any dates mentioned for a Pad abort and/or In-flight abort? Which I'm assuming would need to be towards the end of 2016? Will there be an additional Atlas V available for an in-flight abort test in 2016?
The way things are going you have to wonder if there will be an Atlas spare by then.
Maybe they'll have to seriously start considering an alternative launcher.
ULA already has 2 yrs of RD-180 engine stock and I believe they recently asked NPO Energomash to increase their supply rate from once per year to once every 6 months (citation needed ;) )
So from what I understand, Atlas V will continue as normal until at least 2017.
No, they're not going to continue as normal if the supply is about to run out.
 If the Russians want to keep selling engines and the US wants to keep buying them, the US can make a statement that they won't be used for offensive or defensive weaponry or whatever it takes to save face on the Russian side. If there's a will, there will be some semantic solution to implement it. Let the NRO put their logo on the rocket instead of the AF if that's what it takes.
« Last Edit: 05/20/2014 07:11 pm by Nomadd »
Those who danced were thought to be quite insane by those who couldn't hear the music.

Offline arachnitect

  • Member
  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1442
  • Liked: 391
  • Likes Given: 463
Re: Boeing's CST-100 capsule updates & discussion THREAD 2
« Reply #328 on: 05/20/2014 09:16 pm »


I really doubt that situation as outlined here is going to remain the same. Also what engines they do have will go to priority national defence payloads not to this.
I thought the Russians were only threatening to withhold the engine for national security payloads, in which case we could continue to use Atlas V for crew transportation.

Assuming the announcement will be enacted as formulated: Continuing delivery would depend on the US-government plediging not to use RD-180 for military purposes. How likely is such a pledge? Would that pledge need to include the present stock?

Could you imagine any US administration giving that kind of pledge, as I can't.

Most likely event is continuation of status quo. Realpolitik does happen though; move a few NRO birds over to Delta, everyone's "happy," and life continues more or less as before.

Cheer up with selfies in space:

http://www.space.com/25950-space-apps-boeing-cst-100-capsule.html

Quote
"There's no telling where this [partnership] is going to lead in half a dozen years, but our intention is to closely mimic what the commercial customer desires on an airliner, to be able to provide them with at least a similar type of service on a spaceliner," Ferguson said.

Offline newpylong

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1499
  • Liked: 199
  • Likes Given: 343
Re: Boeing's CST-100 capsule updates & discussion THREAD 2
« Reply #329 on: 05/21/2014 01:24 pm »
Doesn't need to be an Atlas for an abort test. In fact that would be a waste of an expensive booster.

Maybe not for the pad abort, but for the in-flight abort test you would need a flight configuration Atlas V LV.

They don't need it for either test and I suspect they won't use one.

Apollo used Little Joe.
Orion is going to use a Peacekeeper.

Offline Zed_Noir

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2634
  • Canada
  • Liked: 429
  • Likes Given: 649
Re: Boeing's CST-100 capsule updates & discussion THREAD 2
« Reply #330 on: 05/22/2014 11:55 am »
Doesn't need to be an Atlas for an abort test. In fact that would be a waste of an expensive booster.

Maybe not for the pad abort, but for the in-flight abort test you would need a flight configuration Atlas V LV.

They don't need it for either test and I suspect they won't use one.

Apollo used Little Joe.
Orion is going to use a Peacekeeper.

First the Peacekeeper SLV more commonly known as the Minotaur IV+ is under-power for this inflight abort test. The Minotaur have a LEO payload capacity of 1735 kg with 2,200 kN thrust from the first stage. Somehow don't see the Minotaur lift the 10 ton CST-100 capsule and service module stack to the Max-Q of the Atlas V.  ::)

Second without a successful LES abort test of the CST-100 from the Atlas V at Max-Q. You have no way of gauging the effectiveness of  the CST-100 abort system.



Offline newpylong

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1499
  • Liked: 199
  • Likes Given: 343
Re: Boeing's CST-100 capsule updates & discussion THREAD 2
« Reply #331 on: 05/22/2014 01:13 pm »
Doesn't need to be an Atlas for an abort test. In fact that would be a waste of an expensive booster.

Maybe not for the pad abort, but for the in-flight abort test you would need a flight configuration Atlas V LV.

They don't need it for either test and I suspect they won't use one.

Apollo used Little Joe.
Orion is going to use a Peacekeeper.

First the Peacekeeper SLV more commonly known as the Minotaur IV+ is under-power for this inflight abort test. The Minotaur have a LEO payload capacity of 1735 kg with 2,200 kN thrust from the first stage. Somehow don't see the Minotaur lift the 10 ton CST-100 capsule and service module stack to the Max-Q of the Atlas V.  ::)

Second without a successful LES abort test of the CST-100 from the Atlas V at Max-Q. You have no way of gauging the effectiveness of  the CST-100 abort system.

I suggest reading the following article: http://www.spaceflightinsider.com/space-flight-centers/ccafs-space-flight-centers/nasa-official-talks-ascent-abort-2/

If the Peacekeeper first stage can get a much heavier Orion to Max-Q it can get CST-100. Simple.

Offline Jim

  • Night Gator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 32546
  • Cape Canaveral Spaceport
  • Liked: 11333
  • Likes Given: 334
Re: Boeing's CST-100 capsule updates & discussion THREAD 2
« Reply #332 on: 05/22/2014 01:40 pm »


If the Peacekeeper first stage can get a much heavier Orion to Max-Q it can get CST-100. Simple.

It will be carrying 150klb of ballast with Orion
« Last Edit: 05/22/2014 01:40 pm by Jim »

Offline baldusi

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7438
  • Buenos Aires, Argentina
  • Liked: 1459
  • Likes Given: 4518
Re: Boeing's CST-100 capsule updates & discussion THREAD 2
« Reply #333 on: 05/22/2014 02:07 pm »

First the Peacekeeper SLV more commonly known as the Minotaur IV+ is under-power for this inflight abort test. The Minotaur have a LEO payload capacity of 1735 kg with 2,200 kN thrust from the first stage. Somehow don't see the Minotaur lift the 10 ton CST-100 capsule and service module stack to the Max-Q of the Atlas V.  ::)
2,200k n are 218 tonnes of force. How much would the stack weight? Please remember that they just need to reach MaxQ, which is usually about 30s into the flight and that's it.

Offline Elmar Moelzer

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3266
  • Liked: 654
  • Likes Given: 930
Re: Boeing's CST-100 capsule updates & discussion THREAD 2
« Reply #334 on: 05/22/2014 02:31 pm »


If the Peacekeeper first stage can get a much heavier Orion to Max-Q it can get CST-100. Simple.

It will be carrying 150klb of ballast with Orion
70 tons of ballast?

Offline Zed_Noir

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2634
  • Canada
  • Liked: 429
  • Likes Given: 649
Re: Boeing's CST-100 capsule updates & discussion THREAD 2
« Reply #335 on: 05/22/2014 03:13 pm »


If the Peacekeeper first stage can get a much heavier Orion to Max-Q it can get CST-100. Simple.

It will be carrying 150klb of ballast with Orion
70 tons of ballast?

My Jimspeak interpretation: you need the whole Minotaur IV LV not just only the 1st stage. The avionics are in the upper stage. Unless someone have a single stage LV available with a Thiokol SR-118 solid motor.

Offline Jim

  • Night Gator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 32546
  • Cape Canaveral Spaceport
  • Liked: 11333
  • Likes Given: 334
Re: Boeing's CST-100 capsule updates & discussion THREAD 2
« Reply #336 on: 05/22/2014 05:04 pm »


If the Peacekeeper first stage can get a much heavier Orion to Max-Q it can get CST-100. Simple.

It will be carrying 150klb of ballast with Orion
70 tons of ballast?

My Jimspeak interpretation: you need the whole Minotaur IV LV not just only the 1st stage. The avionics are in the upper stage. Unless someone have a single stage LV available with a Thiokol SR-118 solid motor.


It is a single motor with avionics and will carry 150klbs of ballast so the Orion abort will be at the proper conditions (velocity and altitude)

Offline newpylong

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1499
  • Liked: 199
  • Likes Given: 343
Re: Boeing's CST-100 capsule updates & discussion THREAD 2
« Reply #337 on: 05/22/2014 05:18 pm »


If the Peacekeeper first stage can get a much heavier Orion to Max-Q it can get CST-100. Simple.

It will be carrying 150klb of ballast with Orion
70 tons of ballast?

My Jimspeak interpretation: you need the whole Minotaur IV LV not just only the 1st stage. The avionics are in the upper stage. Unless someone have a single stage LV available with a Thiokol SR-118 solid motor.

Did you read the article? It's just the first stage with Orion on top.

Here is further clarification: http://www.orbital.com/AdvancedSystems/Publications/ATB_factsheet.pdf

Offline TrevorMonty

If they do use something like a Little Joe, SNC may also be interested in using it for DC. This would help to share development costs.

Online ChefPat

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1052
  • Earth, for now
  • Liked: 123
  • Likes Given: 1022
Re: Boeing's CST-100 capsule updates & discussion THREAD 2
« Reply #339 on: 05/23/2014 02:29 pm »
Boeing to show off commercial capsule at KSC next month

Boeing will visit Kennedy Space Center June 9 to discuss its CST-100 crew capsule, a contender to launch NASA astronauts to the International Space Station.

A media invitation offers a "boarding pass" to experience a capsule mockup and preview the "Commercial Crew Processing Facility" in which flight vehicles will be assembled, in a renovated space shuttle hangar and engine shop.
Playing Politics with Commercial Crew is Un-American!!!

Tags: