Author Topic: Boeing's CST-100 capsule updates & discussion THREAD 2  (Read 521245 times)

Online JBF

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Re: Boeing's CST-100 capsule updates & discussion THREAD 2
« Reply #240 on: 04/08/2014 01:37 pm »
They are supposed to be able to sit on station for a year, so you do a taxi model where you send an extra one up at the beginning and then rotate that one out every 6 months or so.
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Offline eriblo

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Re: Boeing's CST-100 capsule updates & discussion THREAD 2
« Reply #241 on: 04/08/2014 03:05 pm »
They are supposed to be able to sit on station for a year, so you do a taxi model where you send an extra one up at the beginning and then rotate that one out every 6 months or so.

Leaving each cab driver outside with the meter running, twiddling his thumbs for half a year? :)

Online JBF

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Re: Boeing's CST-100 capsule updates & discussion THREAD 2
« Reply #242 on: 04/08/2014 03:38 pm »
They are supposed to be able to sit on station for a year, so you do a taxi model where you send an extra one up at the beginning and then rotate that one out every 6 months or so.

Leaving each cab driver outside with the meter running, twiddling his thumbs for half a year? :)

You send the first one up on automatics.
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Offline eriblo

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Re: Boeing's CST-100 capsule updates & discussion THREAD 2
« Reply #243 on: 04/08/2014 04:12 pm »
They are supposed to be able to sit on station for a year, so you do a taxi model where you send an extra one up at the beginning and then rotate that one out every 6 months or so.
Leaving each cab driver outside with the meter running, twiddling his thumbs for half a year? :)
You send the first one up on automatics.
AIUI from baldusis post and elsewhere there is (or will be) a requirement that a backup docking port is available and only two total. If that is the case then the old vehicle must leave before the new one arrives and can not bring the pilot of the new one back down.

Online JBF

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Re: Boeing's CST-100 capsule updates & discussion THREAD 2
« Reply #244 on: 04/08/2014 04:42 pm »
They are supposed to be able to sit on station for a year, so you do a taxi model where you send an extra one up at the beginning and then rotate that one out every 6 months or so.
Leaving each cab driver outside with the meter running, twiddling his thumbs for half a year? :)
You send the first one up on automatics.
AIUI from baldusis post and elsewhere there is (or will be) a requirement that a backup docking port is available and only two total. If that is the case then the old vehicle must leave before the new one arrives and can not bring the pilot of the new one back down.

If the taxi model is used that will have to be modified to allow a short period of both ports being used.
« Last Edit: 04/08/2014 04:43 pm by JBF »
"In principle, rocket engines are simple, but that’s the last place rocket engines are ever simple." Jeff Bezos

Offline arachnitect

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Re: Boeing's CST-100 capsule updates & discussion THREAD 2
« Reply #245 on: 04/08/2014 06:10 pm »
Could Boeing maybe be trying to sell a tourist seat on each flight?

A likely explanation for the 5 passenger quote is that it's just a typo.

Offline eriblo

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Re: Boeing's CST-100 capsule updates & discussion THREAD 2
« Reply #246 on: 04/08/2014 06:24 pm »
[...]
If the taxi model is used that will have to be modified to allow a short period of both ports being used.
Then we're on the same page (literally for me, since baldusis 'taxi model not currently possible' post just before your 'use taxi model' one are one different pages :) ).

I can't say I've heard how one would deal with a faulty docking port, are there any actual plans (apart from aborting and relaunching without pilot)?
« Last Edit: 04/08/2014 06:25 pm by eriblo »

Offline baldusi

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Re: Boeing's CST-100 capsule updates & discussion THREAD 2
« Reply #247 on: 04/08/2014 08:19 pm »
They are supposed to be able to sit on station for a year, so you do a taxi model where you send an extra one up at the beginning and then rotate that one out every 6 months or so.
Leaving each cab driver outside with the meter running, twiddling his thumbs for half a year? :)
You send the first one up on automatics.
AIUI from baldusis post and elsewhere there is (or will be) a requirement that a backup docking port is available and only two total. If that is the case then the old vehicle must leave before the new one arrives and can not bring the pilot of the new one back down.

If the taxi model is used that will have to be modified to allow a short period of both ports being used.
That and the current planning strongly suggest that the taxi model won't be used. That and the fact that NASA got FAA to say that NASA astronauts are more than space participants and thus can actually pilot the craft without being crew vehicle company's employees.

Offline BrightLight

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Re: Boeing's CST-100 capsule updates & discussion THREAD 2
« Reply #248 on: 04/08/2014 08:33 pm »
They are supposed to be able to sit on station for a year, so you do a taxi model where you send an extra one up at the beginning and then rotate that one out every 6 months or so.
Leaving each cab driver outside with the meter running, twiddling his thumbs for half a year? :)
You send the first one up on automatics.
AIUI from baldusis post and elsewhere there is (or will be) a requirement that a backup docking port is available and only two total. If that is the case then the old vehicle must leave before the new one arrives and can not bring the pilot of the new one back down.

If the taxi model is used that will have to be modified to allow a short period of both ports being used.
That and the current planning strongly suggest that the taxi model won't be used. That and the fact that NASA got FAA to say that NASA astronauts are more than space participants and thus can actually pilot the craft without being crew vehicle company's employees.
Will NASA then lease the vehicle and use NASA pilots?

Offline simonbp

Being designed for 5 people doesn't mean that it will always carry 5 people. How many shuttle flights had fewer than 7 people on board?

Boeing has some requirement in mind that means they are designing for 5 (Bigelow, perhaps?), but if NASA only wants 4 on board, there is no problem.

Offline arachnitect

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Re: Boeing's CST-100 capsule updates & discussion THREAD 2
« Reply #250 on: 04/10/2014 05:34 pm »
Being designed for 5 people doesn't mean that it will always carry 5 people. How many shuttle flights had fewer than 7 people on board?

Boeing has some requirement in mind that means they are designing for 5 (Bigelow, perhaps?), but if NASA only wants 4 on board, there is no problem.

CST can carry up to 7 passengers.

This reference says it will "typically carry 5"

That's either news or a typo.

Offline Prober

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Re: Boeing's CST-100 capsule updates & discussion THREAD 2
« Reply #251 on: 04/10/2014 10:10 pm »
Being designed for 5 people doesn't mean that it will always carry 5 people. How many shuttle flights had fewer than 7 people on board?

Boeing has some requirement in mind that means they are designing for 5 (Bigelow, perhaps?), but if NASA only wants 4 on board, there is no problem.

Maybe we can just carry up a few bots each time.

http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=33141.msg1181688#msg1181688
« Last Edit: 04/10/2014 11:27 pm by Prober »
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Offline arachnitect

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Re: Boeing's CST-100 capsule updates & discussion THREAD 2
« Reply #252 on: 04/14/2014 11:59 pm »
Commercial crew, Crimea, and Congress
Quote
One tweak to the CST-100 design is the addition of solar cells to the base of the service module. Originally, Ferguson said, Boeing designed the spacecraft to be powered entirely by batteries, given its short free flight times—less than a day—to and from the ISS. Adding the solar panels to the base “allows us to tread water from an electrical perspective” and keep the batteries charged.

Offline edkyle99

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Re: Boeing's CST-100 capsule updates & discussion THREAD 2
« Reply #253 on: 04/15/2014 02:07 am »
Commercial crew, Crimea, and Congress
Quote
One tweak to the CST-100 design is the addition of solar cells to the base of the service module. Originally, Ferguson said, Boeing designed the spacecraft to be powered entirely by batteries, given its short free flight times—less than a day—to and from the ISS. Adding the solar panels to the base “allows us to tread water from an electrical perspective” and keep the batteries charged.
Good news, IMO.

 - Ed Kyle

Offline Prober

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Re: Boeing's CST-100 capsule updates & discussion THREAD 2
« Reply #254 on: 04/17/2014 03:33 pm »
Commercial crew, Crimea, and Congress
Quote
One tweak to the CST-100 design is the addition of solar cells to the base of the service module. Originally, Ferguson said, Boeing designed the spacecraft to be powered entirely by batteries, given its short free flight times—less than a day—to and from the ISS. Adding the solar panels to the base “allows us to tread water from an electrical perspective” and keep the batteries charged.
Good news, IMO.

 - Ed Kyle

yes, a very good move on Boeing's part to add margin ;)
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Offline erioladastra

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Re: Boeing's CST-100 capsule updates & discussion THREAD 2
« Reply #255 on: 04/19/2014 05:10 pm »
Commercial crew, Crimea, and Congress
Quote
One tweak to the CST-100 design is the addition of solar cells to the base of the service module. Originally, Ferguson said, Boeing designed the spacecraft to be powered entirely by batteries, given its short free flight times—less than a day—to and from the ISS. Adding the solar panels to the base “allows us to tread water from an electrical perspective” and keep the batteries charged.
Good news, IMO.

 - Ed Kyle

yes, a very good move on Boeing's part to add margin ;)

Yes but it is a trade - components like arrays generally add significantly to the failure modes in risk assessments.  And it will add significant recurring costs.  Engineering is all about choices :)

Offline A_M_Swallow

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Re: Boeing's CST-100 capsule updates & discussion THREAD 2
« Reply #256 on: 04/19/2014 05:16 pm »
I hope the CST-100 has oxygen to go with the extra flight time.

I assume that the solar panels increase the number of and size of the launch windows.

Offline pathfinder_01

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Re: Boeing's CST-100 capsule updates & discussion THREAD 2
« Reply #257 on: 04/19/2014 10:18 pm »
I hope the CST-100 has oxygen to go with the extra flight time.

I assume that the solar panels increase the number of and size of the launch windows.

CO2 scrubbing is what is most important in terms of life support(yeah you do need oxygen, but if you don't remove the CO2, you will poison yourself. It is sort of what will get you first.). I doubt they added them for that reason, though it might help. They were planning to keep the batteries charged by drawing power from the ISS. Having some ability to produce some power could be helpful if that system breaks, or you need more time to dock and so on.

Offline Robotbeat

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Re: Boeing's CST-100 capsule updates & discussion THREAD 2
« Reply #258 on: 04/27/2014 01:31 am »
Commercial crew, Crimea, and Congress
Quote
One tweak to the CST-100 design is the addition of solar cells to the base of the service module. Originally, Ferguson said, Boeing designed the spacecraft to be powered entirely by batteries, given its short free flight times—less than a day—to and from the ISS. Adding the solar panels to the base “allows us to tread water from an electrical perspective” and keep the batteries charged.
Good news, IMO.

 - Ed Kyle

yes, a very good move on Boeing's part to add margin ;)

Yes but it is a trade - components like arrays generally add significantly to the failure modes in risk assessments.  And it will add significant recurring costs.  Engineering is all about choices :)
I think it goes both ways, here. Not contradicting what you said, just expounding on the comment from Ferguson: CST-100 may retain enough battery power to do the whole mission (in a slightly accelerated mode) with batteries-only if BOTH arrays fail to open, like was discussed with cargo Dragon. The arrays in this case allow greater power margin and reduce overall mission failure rate, since they allow the crew time to phase up properly or to troubleshoot problems (unrelated to the arrays) before having to give up and abort-to-Earth (perhaps unsafely to a remote part of the globe) just due to lack of time.
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Offline Ronsmytheiii

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Re: Boeing's CST-100 capsule updates & discussion THREAD 2
« Reply #259 on: 04/27/2014 01:50 am »
I think it goes both ways, here. Not contradicting what you said, just expounding on the comment from Ferguson: CST-100 may retain enough battery power to do the whole mission (in a slightly accelerated mode) with batteries-only if BOTH arrays fail to open, like was discussed with cargo Dragon.

From what we have seen from Boeing, the Arrays wont need to deploy, they will just sit on the end of the CST-100 SM:

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