Author Topic: Soyuz-2-1A - Bars-M #1 - Plesetsk - February 27, 2015 (11:01 UTC) (Read 60511 times)

Phillip Clark · « **Reply #20 on:** 01/04/2015 03:49 pm »

Since СВИТ is from Isayev/Khimmash I would expect that it is the propulsion system with the main satellite body being from JCS Progress.

Also Gunter Krebs reports on his web site that "The Bars-M satellites feature an electro-optical camera system called Karat, which is developed and built by the Leningrad Optical Mechanical Association (LOMO). They are planned to operate for 5 years in orbit."
http://space.skyrocket.de/doc_sdat/bars-m.htm

Stan Black · « **Reply #21 on:** 01/04/2015 05:19 pm »

Quote from: Phillip Clark on 01/04/2015 03:49 pm

Also Gunter Krebs reports on his web site that "The Bars-M satellites feature an electro-optical camera system called Karat, which is developed and built by the Leningrad Optical Mechanical Association (LOMO). They are planned to operate for 5 years in orbit."
http://space.skyrocket.de/doc_sdat/bars-m.htm

Those details are from this thread; and this forum.

B. Hendrickx · « **Reply #22 on:** 01/04/2015 10:22 pm »

Based on the links given in this thread, SVIT is a propulsion system for small satellites integrated by TsSKB/Progress in Samara. The propellant tanks and other non-propulsion structural elements are built in-house by TsSKB, but the actual engines are manufactured by KB Khimmash in Korolyov and NIIMash in Nizhnyaya Salda. SVIT has a “correction and braking engine” for orbital manoeuvres and 12 small thrusters for orientation and stabilization. The correction and braking engine is probably produced by KB Khimmash and the thrusters by NIIMash.

The Khimmash and NIIMash websites are here, but I don’t immediately see any candidate engines for SVIT :
http://kbhmisaeva.ru/
http://www.niimashspace.ru/

According to a press release from TsSKB/Progress on 15 May 2012, a first stage of SVIT test firings had been completed at the test stand of KB Khimmash and a second stage of tests was expected to be conducted in September of that year. Following that, SVIT was to undergo flight tests on a small remote sensing satellite developed by TsSKB/Progress, which we now know is Bars-M.

I get the impression from the various links that Bars-M is a totally new design that has little or no Yantar heritage. With a mass of 4 tons, Bars-M is underweight for the Soyuz-2.1A, but what’s the alternative? It’s too heavy for Soyuz-2.1V and Rokot.

B. Hendrickx · « **Reply #23 on:** 01/04/2015 11:18 pm »

Perhaps the plan is to eventually launch Bars on the Angara 1.2, with has a 3.8 ton LEO capacity.

russianhalo117 · « **Reply #24 on:** 01/05/2015 07:45 pm »

Only heritage is the engine and thrusters are derrivative of those used on upper stage <<volga>>. Star trackers also from <<volga>> rest of SC seems to be new build.

Stan Black · « **Reply #25 on:** 01/05/2015 08:26 pm »

What do you think of the connections between that alternate Resurs-P design and Obzor-R? Both Appear to have four central thrusters instead of the single one on Kobalt derivatives? Would RKTs Progress be introducing yet another spacecraft type for Obzor-R in addition to Bars-M?
http://www.netceng.eu/downloads/meetings/2014-03_kick-off_vgtu/presentations/TsSKB-Progress.pdf

Stan Black · « **Reply #26 on:** 01/05/2015 08:42 pm »

There is a diagram of a satellite featuring МЦА and МСС with two cameras; same as Bars-M?
http://www.kulibin.org/storage/documents/20149606f4dbb0a575128c44ba90f148.pptx

http://novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/forum/messages/forum12/topic9690/message920608/#message920608

Stan Black · « **Reply #27 on:** 01/06/2015 09:36 pm »

МСС diagram on page 10.
http://www.ssau.ru/files/resources/dis_protection/Kosmodemyanskii_E_V_Razrabotka_technjlogy.pdf

Stan Black · « **Reply #28 on:** 01/07/2015 04:42 pm »

So I think this new platform/bus should be referred to as just MSS?

Quote

Разработанный комплекс организационно-методических мероприятий внедрен в ОАО «РКЦ «Прогресс». Результаты работы использовались при создании изделий: КА на базе МСС, КА «Обзор-Р», МКА «Сервал».

B. Hendrickx · « **Reply #29 on:** 01/07/2015 09:00 pm »

Quote from: Stan Black on 01/05/2015 08:42 pm

There is a diagram of a satellite featuring МЦА and МСС with two cameras; same as Bars-M?
http://www.kulibin.org/storage/documents/20149606f4dbb0a575128c44ba90f148.pptx

http://novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/forum/messages/forum12/topic9690/message920608/#message920608

Apparently not. This is a PowerPoint presentation about the proposed Serval satellites with a mass of up to 500 kg (Bars-M is about 4 tons). They use an electric propulsion system (unlike Bars-M's chemical propulsion system). The version shown on p. 6 does have two cameras built by OAO LOMO in St. Petersburg, but on p. 3 this payload is referred to as "Sonata", whereas the LOMO payload for Bars-M is called "Karat" in one of the documents mentioned in this thread.

Stan Black · « **Reply #30 on:** 01/07/2015 09:07 pm »

Quote from: B. Hendrickx on 01/07/2015 09:00 pm

Quote from: Stan Black on 01/05/2015 08:42 pm
There is a diagram of a satellite featuring МЦА and МСС with two cameras; same as Bars-M?
http://www.kulibin.org/storage/documents/20149606f4dbb0a575128c44ba90f148.pptx

http://novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/forum/messages/forum12/topic9690/message920608/#message920608

Apparently not. This is a PowerPoint presentation about the proposed Serval satellites with a mass of up to 500 kg (Bars-M is about 4 tons). They use an electric propulsion system (unlike Bars-M's chemical propulsion system). The version shown on p. 6 does have two cameras built by OAO LOMO in St. Petersburg, but on p. 3 this payload is referred to as "Sonata", whereas the LOMO payload for Bars-M is called "Karat" in one of the documents mentioned in this thread.

Look at the next post: all is revealed. There is KA (satellite) and MKA (small satellite Serval) versions; the KA is the one with SVIT.

B. Hendrickx · « **Reply #31 on:** 01/07/2015 10:24 pm »

Yes, you’re right. It took me a while to go through the other document. This is a PhD thesis by a certain Yevgeniy Kosmodemyanskiy, who was involved in the design of three different remote sensing satellites developed by TsSKB between 2008 and 2013 (see p. 126) :

- "a satellite using a bus" (described as the first unpressurized TsSKB satellite, with an "optical-electronic complex" as payload) (drawings of the service module on p. 10, 37, 116, 134). A drawing on p. 130 appears to show the satellite loaded on board an Ilyushin-76 transport plane.
- Serval (a small satellite using electric propulsion. It went through the "pre-draft plan" phase and "served as the basis for developing design documentation in tenders for small satellites") (drawing on p. 128)
- the Obzor-R radar satellite (drawing on p. 127, 154, 157)

The PhD thesis mainly focuses on the strategies used in the early design of these projects and gives little background on them. However, there is indeed a good possibility that "the satellite using a bus" is Bars-M, mainly because in the drawing on p. 10 the propulsion system is described as SVIT. Excellent detective work, Stan!

Perhaps it is simply called "satellite with a bus" because the name Bars-M is considered classified. Note that in the drawings the solar panels are not shown. The drawing on p. 10 does show attachment points for solar panels on either end of the bus.

To answer your question about the acronym MSS, it stands for "Modul sluzhebnykh sistem" (literally "module of servicing systems") and is used for satellite buses in general (besides the more commonly used word "platforma"). It should not be considered the name of a specific bus. See this Russian Wikipedia page :

https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Космическая_платформа

B. Hendrickx · « **Reply #32 on:** 01/08/2015 01:24 pm »

This patent for a remote sensing satellite may be related to Bars-M :

http://bankpatentov.ru/node/374453

A few clues :
- the patent holders are TsSKB-Progress (the first named author being TsSKB/Progress general designer and first deputy general director Ravil Akhmetov) and the Ministry of Defence
- the overall shape of the bus (MSS) and the location of the propulsion system and solar panels are similar to those shown in Kosmodemyanskiy's PhD thesis (BTW, the payload section (MTsA) is also shown)
- the bus is unpressurized and covered with radiator panels
- the propulsion system is described as a KDU (usually used for a liquid-fuel propulsion system)
- the dates seem to match (the patent went into effect on 21 May 2012 and was published on 20 September 2013)

The main novelty is the thermal control system, to which most of the text is devoted.

Stan Black · « **Reply #33 on:** 01/09/2015 01:45 pm »

Russian Ministry of Defence have taken TsSKB-Progress to court to claim back money?

Quote

Министерство обороны РФ обратилось с иском к Федеральному государственному унитарному предприятию «Государственный научно-производственный ракетно-космический центр ЦСКБ-Прогресс» о взыскании 515 260 000 рублей на основании контракта №К-33-02-07 от 12.10.2007г.

http://docs.pravo.ru/document/view/60645119/68745165/

http://www.chronograf.ru/articles/?num=407&a=14535

B. Hendrickx · « **Reply #34 on:** 01/09/2015 09:37 pm »

Quote from: Stan Black on 01/09/2015 01:45 pm

Russian Ministry of Defence have taken TsSKB-Progress to court to claim back money?

Quote
Министерство обороны РФ обратилось с иском к Федеральному государственному унитарному предприятию «Государственный научно-производственный ракетно-космический центр ЦСКБ-Прогресс» о взыскании 515 260 000 рублей на основании контракта №К-33-02-07 от 12.10.2007г.
http://docs.pravo.ru/document/view/60645119/68745165/

http://www.chronograf.ru/articles/?num=407&a=14535

Ministry of Defence demanding 515,260,000 rubles from TsSKB for breach of contract nr. 33-02-07 of 12 Oct 2007 (which in other documents has indeed been identified as the government contract for the development of Bars-M). Case filed with the Samara Court of Arbitration on 7 October last year (in Russia a Court of Arbitration is a court that resolves commercial disputes).

Stan Black · « **Reply #35 on:** 01/10/2015 10:58 am »

In that thesis on page 51 there is a diagram. It shows both 148КС and СВИТ. Is 148КС for Bars-M?

Stan Black · « **Reply #36 on:** 01/12/2015 09:36 pm »

Bars-M?

http://lifenews.ru/news/91465
http://lifenews.ru/news/99067

B. Hendrickx · « **Reply #37 on:** 01/13/2015 11:01 am »

Quote from: Stan Black on 01/10/2015 10:58 am

In that thesis on page 51 there is a diagram. It shows both 148КС and СВИТ. Is 148КС for Bars-M?

From what I can see, the 148KS designator appears to be related to the transport container for the satellite.

B. Hendrickx · « **Reply #38 on:** 01/13/2015 11:17 am »

Quote from: Stan Black on 01/12/2015 09:36 pm

Bars-M?

http://lifenews.ru/news/91465
http://lifenews.ru/news/99067

The first report (dated 13 May 2012) says the SVIT engine unit has been successfully tested in Korolyov (this was also reported by other Russian news outlets at the time) (KB Khimmash/Isayev is situated in Korolyov outside Moscow). It quotes a TsSKB-Progress official as saying that by building the engine unit in-house, TsSKB is now in charge of the entire production cycle. A Roskosmos official is quoted as saying that such a “closed production cycle” will increase quality and, more importantly, will also make it easier to hold the manufacturer accountable for possible technical shortcomings. The captures under the two pictures do not specifically say they show SVIT.

The second report (dated 9 August 2012) quotes a source within Roskosmos as saying that the space agency is seeking 400 million rubles in damages from TsSKB for not delivering in time two high-priority satellites (but the news was not confirmed officially by Roskosmos, according to the report). One satellite is described as having an optical system (“Korsha”) with a 1.6 m mirror and a resolution of about 30 cm. The other satellite “remains completely classified”.

Roskosmos had placed an order for the two satellites more than two years earlier and they should have been delivered more than a year ago (at the time of writing).

The report quotes another source as saying that the engine units for the satellites had already been tested in Korolyov and that after encountering some problems, TsSKB was now finishing work on the two satellites and that the first should be launched in January-February 2013 and the second between May and September 2013.

The first satellite must be Persona nr. 2 (eventually launched in June 2013). The Korsha optical system (developed by LOMO) has been linked to Persona and the report also refers to a similar satellite lost in 2008 due to a failure in its electric systems (the first Persona failed in 2008).

The second satellite mentioned here may very well be Bars-M (the engine unit tests probably refer only to SVIT, not to the Persona propulsion system). All in all, development of Bars-M seems to have been very troublesome (with the Ministry of Defence recently also claiming back money from TsSKB for breaching the contract).

Again the captions under the pictures do not say specifically that this is SVIT. One of the captions simply says that “the engine units for the satellites are still being manufactured”.

Stan Black · « **Reply #39 on:** 01/13/2015 04:28 pm »

According to the diagram in the thesis, that round thing next to the four nozzles, would be a telemetry antenna (Антенное устройство телеметрической системы)? In orbit it would be pointing away from the Earth? Connection with Garpun?