From Atlas V to Falcon XX - Commercial suitors wanted for Pad 39A

[Occupymars]

http://www.floridatoday.com/article/20130719/SPACE/307190014/Who-will-launch-from-Kennedy-Space-Center-s-pad-39A-

[yg1968]

http://www.floridatoday.com/article/20130719/SPACE/307190014/Who-will-launch-from-Kennedy-Space-Center-s-pad-39A-

The Blue Origin proposal gives rise to an interesting question. If Blue Origin wins, could NASA force SpaceX to launch its crewed Falcon 9 from pad 39A? In other words, could NASA refuse to pay for a crew access tower and an emergency egress system for more than one location by insisting on a multi-user pad for commercial crew?

[mr. mark]

SpaceX is sure to walk away from the Blue Origin deal. Mixed use is not in Musk's MO. He'll stick with Cape AFB for manned launches if he can, rather than divide up a launch facility.

[Lars_J]

Blue Origin ?  What do they intend to launch from the pad ? Does they have something "big enough" to fill it ? Does Bezos hide a Saturn V under wraps ?

It was also reported a while ago that Blue Origin is also interested in the Shiloh site. Musk mentioned that he wanted more competition from Jeff Bezos. He should have been more careful about what he wished for!

Why should he have been more careful? BO is five years away from an orbital flight at best.
Source: http://www.floridatoday.com/article/20130719/SPACE/307190014/Who-will-launch-from-Kennedy-Space-Center-s-pad-39A-?nclick_check=1

But good competition is better for Musk, Bezos, *and* the rest of us.

[yg1968]

Blue Origin ?  What do they intend to launch from the pad ? Does they have something "big enough" to fill it ? Does Bezos hide a Saturn V under wraps ?

It was also reported a while ago that Blue Origin is also interested in the Shiloh site. Musk mentioned that he wanted more competition from Jeff Bezos. He should have been more careful about what he wished for!

Why should he have been more careful? BO is three years away from an orbital flight at best.

But good competition is better for Musk, Bezos, *and* the rest of us.

I agree that competition is good. I meant that he probably isn't too happy about the prospect of losing Pad-39A especially if it means that he has to launch his crewed Falcon 9 from a Pad-39A that is operated by Blue Origin. 

Incidentally, Meyerson said that BO should start orbital flights in 2018.

[Lars_J]

I don't think that SpaceX would be terribly upset about 'losing' Pad 39A - Their plans can probably do just as well (or better) without it. Pad 39 has benefits, but also disadvantages - ESPECIALLY if it is a shared pad.

[yg1968]

I don't think that SpaceX would be terribly upset about 'losing' Pad 39A - Their plans can probably do just as well (or better) without it. Pad 39 has benefits, but also disadvantages - ESPECIALLY if it is a shared pad.

Perhaps. But it's still not clear to me if NASA will be willing be to fund more than one pad for commercial crew.

[Lars_J]

I don't think that SpaceX would be terribly upset about 'losing' Pad 39A - Their plans can probably do just as well (or better) without it. Pad 39 has benefits, but also disadvantages - ESPECIALLY if it is a shared pad.

Perhaps. But it's still not clear to me if NASA will be willing be to fund more than one pad for commercial crew.

Installing a crew tower is about the least complex and least expensive part of crew certification of a LV/spacecraft combo.

[spectre9]

Will anybody ever be allowed to build a new pad in the wildlife refuge?

I'd hate to see that happen.

What's wrong with the land south of SLC-37?

[yg1968]

I don't think that SpaceX would be terribly upset about 'losing' Pad 39A - Their plans can probably do just as well (or better) without it. Pad 39 has benefits, but also disadvantages - ESPECIALLY if it is a shared pad.

Perhaps. But it's still not clear to me if NASA will be willing be to fund more than one pad for commercial crew.

Installing a crew tower is about the least complex and least expensive part of crew certification of a LV/spacecraft combo.

How much do you think it would cost?

During the Augustine committee, ULA said that human rating the Atlas V would cost about $400M (however, this number included the cost of the EDS).

See page 8 of this document:
http://www.nasa.gov/pdf/361835main_08%20-%20ULA%20%201.0_Augustine_Public_6_17_09_final_R1.pdf

[yg1968]

SpaceX is sure to walk away from the Blue Origin deal. Mixed use is not in Musk's MO. He'll stick with Cape AFB for manned launches if he can, rather than divide up a launch facility.

You are probably right about that. It will be interesting to see what happens. The wildcard is ULA. Does BO have a firm commitment from them or just a letter of support?

[StephenB]

Well, Musk did say that he would ask Bezos every time he sees him when he was going to invest more money in spaceflight. I guess Musk got his wish. 

When did musk say that?

From the NewSpace Journal:

“Every time I see Jeff Bezos,” Musk said, “I say, ‘Why aren’t you doing more in space?’”

[Occupymars]

Well, Musk did say that he would ask Bezos every time he sees him when he was going to invest more money in spaceflight. I guess Musk got his wish. 

When did musk say that?

From the NewSpace Journal:

“Every time I see Jeff Bezos,” Musk said, “I say, ‘Why aren’t you doing more in space?’”

Thanks Stephen

[Ronsmytheiii]

I have to say that the Blue Origin approach is more appealing than the SpaceX one.  Having an open pad would allow more upstarts access to infrastructure and services that would normally add a lot of overhead for a first flight.

And depending on how this works, Blue Origin might be able to offer part of their commercial services to SLS.

[yg1968]

Wolf doesn't like the idea of exclusive rights to pad 39A:
http://www.spacenews.com/article/civil-space/36408congressmen-register-concern-over-possible-exclusive-lease-of-pad-39a#.Ue3hw41J79o

[spectre9]

KSC will be lucky if both bids don't pull out with comments like that.

Wolf strikes me as out of touch. He speaks as an authority on everything.

Private space doesn't like to share.

[yg1968]

Another article:
http://www.nbcnews.com/science/bezos-blue-origin-joins-billionaire-battle-nasa-shuttle-launch-pad-6C10709570

[Lurker Steve]

Any idea how much NASA is currently spending to maintain Pad 39A in it's current state ?

Are there any estimates for how much it costs to launch from the CCAFS pads ? How much does ULA spend for pad maintenance and refurbishment ?

I was wondering how much Blue Origin could charge for each launch from 39A, and if they could make it even close to competitive. I assume leasing pad 39A does not allow access to the VAB, or perhaps that would be included.

[R7]

Well, Musk did say that he would ask Bezos every time he sees him when he was going to invest more money in spaceflight. I guess Musk got his wish. 

When did musk say that?

From the NewSpace Journal:

“Every time I see Jeff Bezos,” Musk said, “I say, ‘Why aren’t you doing more in space?’”

Musk's question is still valid, why isn't Bezos doing more in space. Just trying to grab a pad to leech revenue from those who actually do.

[muomega0]

Wolf doesn't like the idea of exclusive rights to pad 39A:
http://www.spacenews.com/article/civil-space/36408congressmen-register-concern-over-possible-exclusive-lease-of-pad-39a#.Ue3hw41J79o

....NASA was planning to let Pad 39A go too cheaply, and for too long a period: up to 20 years. But “above all, we question we question the seeming desire by NASA to lease LC-39A to a single user for sole use rather than to an entity that would ensure that the pad was re-developed as a multi-user pad,”

too cheap?  is it not excess equipment now?

So who could provide a multi-user pad?

Another article:
http://www.nbcnews.com/science/bezos-blue-origin-joins-billionaire-battle-nasa-shuttle-launch-pad-6C10709570

the launch pad escape system developers who have not placed anything is space perhaps?

Well, Musk did say that he would ask Bezos every time he sees him when he was going to invest more money in spaceflight. I guess Musk got his wish. 

When did musk say that?

From the NewSpace Journal:

“Every time I see Jeff Bezos,” Musk said, “I say, ‘Why aren’t you doing more in space?’”

Musk's question is still valid, why isn't Bezos doing more in space. Just trying to grab a pad to leech revenue from those who actually do.

Perhaps its all part of the plan to maintain old space production lines and stifle the competition...  Orion on delta anyone for ISS?