From Atlas V to Falcon XX - Commercial suitors wanted for Pad 39A

[Proponent]

NASA doesn't need to launch the SLS twice.

The idea is to put everything you need on one super capable Block II vehicle.

The ESD ConOps document of early 2012 specifies two Block 1A SLS launches per lunar sortie, the first to loft the lander and a CPS, and the second, 120 days later, an Orion and CPS.  I'm not aware of a more recent document, but if there is one, please alert me.

[Prober]

Got some thinking going on now, consider that a win.
 
Now run with it......

[Ben the Space Brit]

NASA doesn't need to launch the SLS twice.

The idea is to put everything you need on one super capable Block II vehicle.

The ESD ConOps document of early 2012 specifies two Block 1A SLS launches per lunar sortie, the first to loft the lander and a CPS, and the second, 120 days later, an Orion and CPS.  I'm not aware of a more recent document, but if there is one, please alert me.

Really? Keeping the lander and the EDS healthy for four months in LEO will be an interesting engineering challenge all of its own!

[Proponent]

Yup.  Anyone on L2 can read the conops summary right here.

[Lobo]

But as I understand it LC=39B is close to a "clean pad" now.  Who says it will be funded?
Remember management doesn't want the SLS 

Who deemed it excessive?   Once its gone its gone.  How do we know in the near future we wish to go to Mars and need to pads to do it?

Those who now say the pad is excessive last year claimed we were going to an asteroid in deep space.  They now claim that program can't be done, we can't afford it.  So the new thinking is we bring the asteroid to the moon.

You have missed the main point, NASA does not have the money to do anything with the pad. If they don't do anything with the pad, by law, they must turn it into a historic site and return it to what it was like for Apollo, which they also don't have the money for. 

The thing is, it's not going to be gone, it's not going to be sold, it's not going be demolished. It's going to be leased, which means in the future, if NASA needs it, they can always not renew the lease.  In the meantime the pad itself is maintained.

I think what people are referring to when they say leasing the pad to SpaceX or someone else instad of NASA using it is "sad", is not so much that someone else will be using it, but that it's basically an official statement that NASA themselves will not be launching frequently enough to utilize two pads.  Maybe SLS will actually only launch once a year or something...
That they've so bungled the last 10 years that they are reduced to launching a single HLV maybe as infrequently as once every other year...

That admission, I think is sad.  And I think that's where most who are lamenting that outcome are coming from.  I think we'd all rather see NASA having adopted a sustainable system awhile back that would have warranted frequent annual use of both pads. 
Using EELV's and launching Orion on them from KSC would be one, with perhaps evolved EELV's like Atlas Phase 2, Or multiple evolved D4H's or something...and no commercial cargo or crew, would have allowed for a fairly robust launch schedule for ISS support.   Adding a lunar program on that would increase it more with clustered EELV's or evolved EELV's.

Even Direct would have probably had a decent launch schedue if it were to be doing crew and cargo service to ISS, and then a two launch lunar architecture. 
And both pads could have been converted back to SAturn like clean pads, launching maybe various LV's one differnet mobile launchers, and be properly utilized as well as the VAB.

But now, the VAB will be really underutilized, and launch activity will be low enough they only need one pad.  And that one pad might not get used all that much anyway.

I think that's the sad state...not that SpaceX might use 39A.  I think that's far better than just letting it rot, like many have said.

Maybe NASA can do causeway tourism for SpaceX launches since SLS will launch so infrequently compared to the 3-6 STS launches per year.  Tours to see SLS fly will be few and far between, unfortunately...

[Patchouli]

They might as well convert it to a clean pad like 39B in case they need two SLS launches in rapid succession but allow commercial providers to rent it when it's not in use.

[joek]

They might as well convert it to a clean pad like 39B in case they need two SLS launches in rapid succession but allow commercial providers to rent it when it's not in use.

Unless NASA has a need--and they have stated they don't--they can't fund it.  (That would also assume the VAB is capable of processing two SLS LV's in parallel--is that feasible?)   Nor can they fund it based on potential commercial use.  If commercial wants a clean pad, they'll have to pay for it.  That is where entities such as Space Florida may play an important role; they are not constrained (as NASA is) making investments to benefit commercial.

[FutureSpaceTourist]

According to SpaceNews only SpaceX have put in a bid: http://www.spacenews.com/article/civil-space/36230no-contest-for-pad-39a-spacex-appears-to-be-only-bidder

[newpylong]

MCT and SLS side by side?

Could it get any better? 

[Jim]

According to SpaceNews only SpaceX have put in a bid: http://www.spacenews.com/article/civil-space/36230no-contest-for-pad-39a-spacex-appears-to-be-only-bidder

Not true about the only bidder.  It doesn't matter.  There is going to be a FH pad near KSC regardless

[Halidon]

According to SpaceNews only SpaceX have put in a bid: http://www.spacenews.com/article/civil-space/36230no-contest-for-pad-39a-spacex-appears-to-be-only-bidder

Not true about the only bidder.  It doesn't matter.  There is going to be a FH pad near KSC regardless

Guessing Liberty on the mystery bidder?

If SpaceX ends up with a choice between 39A and not-39A but close to KSC I wonder which appeals to them more.

[oldAtlas_Eguy]

According to SpaceNews only SpaceX have put in a bid: http://www.spacenews.com/article/civil-space/36230no-contest-for-pad-39a-spacex-appears-to-be-only-bidder

Not true about the only bidder.  It doesn't matter.  There is going to be a FH pad near KSC regardless

Guessing Liberty on the mystery bidder?

If SpaceX ends up with a choice between 39A and not-39A but close to KSC I wonder which appeals to them more.

One of the most costly portions of a pad is the flame trench. As thrust levels increase the cost of the trench increase exponetially not scalar. So just having an existing flame trench that the hypothetical 150-200t MCT could launch from may be a cheaper alternative in the short term than building a new complete pad even if other items about the pad is not cost optimal. Start with a low flight rate off 39A then as flight rates increase build an complete optimized pad to handle higher flight rate and reduce operations costs.

[starsilk]

According to SpaceNews only SpaceX have put in a bid: http://www.spacenews.com/article/civil-space/36230no-contest-for-pad-39a-spacex-appears-to-be-only-bidder

Not true about the only bidder.  It doesn't matter.  There is going to be a FH pad near KSC regardless

Guessing Liberty on the mystery bidder?

If SpaceX ends up with a choice between 39A and not-39A but close to KSC I wonder which appeals to them more.

spacenews now reporting that Blue Origin is the other bidder. definitely not ULA, ATK or Orbital.

http://www.spacenews.com/article/civil-space/36274blue-origin-bids-for-shuttle-launch-pad

[Archibald]

Blue Origin ?  What do they intend to launch from the pad ? Does they have something "big enough" to fill it ? Does Bezos hide a Saturn V under wraps ?

[docmordrid]

The only Blue Origin launcher concept I've seen is the reusable booster system (RBS), which appears to be Atlas V sized.

[ClaytonBirchenough]

Blue Origin the other bidder!?!?

Dang... that came out of nowhere!

[StephenB]

Well, Musk did say that he would ask Bezos every time he sees him when he was going to invest more money in spaceflight. I guess Musk got his wish. 

[Downix]

I was just told by an insider that BO's bid is "particularly attractive" compared to SpaceX's.

Makes you wonder about those salvaged F-1's now....

[yg1968]

Blue Origin ?  What do they intend to launch from the pad ? Does they have something "big enough" to fill it ? Does Bezos hide a Saturn V under wraps ?

It was also reported a while ago that Blue Origin is also interested in the Shiloh site. Musk mentioned that he wanted more competition from Jeff Bezos. He should have been more careful what he wished for!

[Occupymars]

Well, Musk did say that he would ask Bezos every time he sees him when he was going to invest more money in spaceflight. I guess Musk got his wish. 

When did musk say that?