LC 39A - RFP for Commercial use

[majormajor42]

I believe the exact words were "If we get 39A, we'll be flying MCT sooner than anyone expects".. along with some I'd-really-love-to-tell-you-but-I-cant statements on the engine development. There was also some other statements about the contest for the pad that I'd call paranoid-conspiracy-stuff if I was going to repeat them, but I won't cause I honestly can't remember from trying not to laugh at the time.

You know, at first I just assumed the conspiracy stuff had to do with BO. It's easy to draw up Blue Origin conspiracies, especially now with this protest they filed.  But then it hit me. If MCT shows up sooner than anyone expects... I don't know how that is possible since a BFR needs more than just a BFPad, it also needs a BFAssembly building, BFTransport logistics, BFTest stand... But if MCT shows up sooner than anyone expects it also needs a BFMission and the only missions that come to mind are SLS-ish missions. We talk in these forums about FH making a possible case for being a smaller modular mission compromise replacement for SLS, it's debatable we all know. But if NASA leases 39A to SpaceX and MCT then shows up sooner rather than later, uh, doesn't that un-debatably mean some bad things for NASA's big rocket?

If SpaceX wants 39A just for MCT, would that be in their proposal to NASA? Probably can't say what’s in it. Would the congressmen who have raised concern about SpaceX's exclusive use of 39A be able to see that proposal? SLS supporting congresspeople may therefore wish to do what is in their power to prevent SpaceX from getting 39A. Conspiracy.

I think I like the idea better that SpaceX just wants 39A for F9 manned and FH launches 

[Lars_J]

We talk in these forums about FH making a possible case for being a smaller modular mission compromise replacement for SLS, it's debatable we all know. But if NASA leases 39A to SpaceX and MCT then shows up sooner rather than later, uh, doesn't that un-debatably mean some bad things for NASA's big rocket?

I don't think MCT is needed for that. If SpaceX can get the FH to fly reliably with the current price, SLS is already "dead man walking". But then again the main purpose of SLS is not really to fly any missions (if so Congress would not be opposed to funding missions) - it is to provide jobs in certain districts, so who knows.

[baldusi]

I don't really trust the FH current performance numbers. But, this pad might help them do FH and Crew launch from Kennedy without touching LC 40. And I guess that NASA would love their astronauts to actually fly from it's own launch center, rather than Air Force's.

[yg1968]

Reading between the lines SpaceX wants it primarily for manned and FH use.  That way they don't have to worry about upgrading the LC-40.

They want it for MCT. I thought this was common knowledge.

It was also reported by Chris. He didn't use the acronym MCT but he said that SpaceX wanted it for Falcon X and XX. But SpaceX also said to the press that they want it for FH and commercial crew. 

http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2013/05/from-atlas-v-falcon-xx-commercial-suitors-wanted-pad-39a/

See also this article:

SpaceX spokeswoman Christina Ra told NBC News that 39A wouldn't take the place of a future commercial launch facility. "SpaceX would focus on our commercial satellite customers with 39A but could launch any mission from our East Coast manifest. We could also use it for launching crew and Falcon Heavy,” Ra said in an email.

http://www.nbcnews.com/science/bezos-blue-origin-joins-billionaire-battle-nasa-shuttle-launch-pad-6C10709570

[newpylong]

Falcon Heavy is not going to make one bit of difference in the ultimate fate/path of SLS.

I don't think MCT is needed for that. If SpaceX can get the FH to fly reliably with the current price, SLS is already "dead man walking". But then again the main purpose of SLS is not really to fly any missions (if so Congress would not be opposed to funding missions) - it is to provide jobs in certain districts, so who knows.

[rcoppola]

We certainly seem to have a cadre of aligned industry and legislative support for BO, or at least against the Single User proposal by SpaceX.
 
Has anyone seen or heard industry and/or legislative support of SpaceX? People with some seniority in Congress who can get their back?

Regardless, IMO, the GAO protest is a sideshow. SpaceX will get the Pad. NASA wants them to have it for very sound, strategic reasons.

 

[Jim]

NASA wants them to have it for very sound, strategic reasons.

 

Source please.

[newpylong]

NASA wants them to have it for very sound, strategic reasons.

 

Source please.

I don't think one is required - it would simply be a good business decision. Would you rather lease your building to someone who clearly has a sound business model and anticipated revenue or someone who proposes that they will?

[Jim]

NASA wants them to have it for very sound, strategic reasons.

Source please.

I don't think one is required - it would simply be a good business decision. Would you rather lease your building to someone who clearly has a sound business model and anticipated revenue or someone who proposes that they will?

there were more than two bidders

[rcoppola]

NASA wants them to have it for very sound, strategic reasons.

Source please.

I don't think one is required - it would simply be a good business decision. Would you rather lease your building to someone who clearly has a sound business model and anticipated revenue or someone who proposes that they will?

there were more than two bidders

Who else was there. I've never seen that reported?

[baldusi]

Liberty could have been one.

[beancounter]

I don't really trust the FH current performance numbers. But, this pad might help them do FH and Crew launch from Kennedy without touching LC 40. And I guess that NASA would love their astronauts to actually fly from it's own launch center, rather than Air Force's.

Performance numbers should firm up a bit when we see a few F9v1.1 missions fly since we'll then have reliable data on the Merlin 1D (which we don't have presently).  FH and crew launch seems feasible.
MCT seems a pipe-dream from the outside but who really knows what's happening wrt Raptor and design/development of the vehicle(s).

[newpylong]

From what I was told by my contacts at Hawthorne, they weren't even aware of one person working on "MCT" full time. They actually laughed when I mentioned it, pointing out the every growing manifest as well as an eventual manned capability that will need to be satisfied. They want to use 39A for FH and manned F9 for now without modifying LC-40.

Me thinks the tour guide had a stiffy for a BFR when reality is a little more business and less long term oriented.

[Prober]

NASA believes that the argument for or against one operating concept over another is secondary to the demonstrated capability of any proposer to undertake the financial and technical challenges of assuming an asset of this magnitude.

I think this is the key point, one that Blue Origin has yet to demonstrate.

One very good point on Bezo's side is that he has shown a great respect for US rocket history. He is willing to invest out of his own pocket for it.
 

[Robotbeat]

NASA believes that the argument for or against one operating concept over another is secondary to the demonstrated capability of any proposer to undertake the financial and technical challenges of assuming an asset of this magnitude.

I think this is the key point, one that Blue Origin has yet to demonstrate.

One very good point on Bezo's side is that he has shown a great respect for US rocket history. He is willing to invest out of his own pocket for it.

That is entirely irrelevant.

[jongoff]

From what I was told by my contacts at Hawthorne, they weren't even aware of one person working on "MCT" full time.

I got pretty much the same story from my SpaceX connections last I checked (earlier this year).

~Jon

[Jim]

Go4mars, are you seeing this?

[yg1968]

Liberty could have been one.

ATK and ULA told Space News that they did not make a bid.

[bunker9603]

Liberty could have been one.

ATK and ULA told Space News that they did not make a bid.

Well whoever "They" are must be above top secret. I haven't heard or read about any other bidders. Jim seems to be the only person publicly saying anything about it.

[Ronsmytheiii]

I wonder if one contender could be Lockheed Martin for the Athena III, LC-39's SRB infrastructure would be useful for the first stage.