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Copenhagen Suborbitals have begun work on 1.6m core
by
QuantumG
on 26 Apr, 2013 05:07
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#1
by
Prober
on 26 Apr, 2013 13:54
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#2
by
Danderman
on 26 Apr, 2013 15:38
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Looks like a Scud.
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#3
by
Prober
on 26 Apr, 2013 15:51
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Looks like a Scud.
Watch their videos sometime......sure you would enjoy them as they do a great job on them.
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#4
by
Lars_J
on 26 Apr, 2013 17:06
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Have they actually flown *anything* yet? I perused their site, and I only saw engine tests and static tests.
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#5
by
Prober
on 26 Apr, 2013 21:08
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#6
by
Morten C.
on 10 May, 2013 19:19
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From
https://twitter.com/KvonBengtsonHEAT-1600 rocket concept CAD-sketching - full rocket section
HEAT-1600 rocket concept CAD - full rocket
HEAT-1600 cluster-engine concept
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#7
by
FutureSpaceTourist
on 12 May, 2013 07:13
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#8
by
Prober
on 12 May, 2013 14:17
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#9
by
sittingduck
on 15 May, 2013 20:52
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I'm trying to get a good grip on their future plans.
In CS's Youtube video of the third TM65 static fire (the one with a partial failure) they mention that the TM65 is being retired and that a new engine will be built. They happen to have a lot of dodgy translations so perhaps they were referring only to that particular engine and that the TM65 production will continue? This is further complicated because I was under the impression that they are also developing a much larger engine.
Is the HEAT 1600 the tentative final design for their actual manned flight? Will 4xTM65 be sufficient for a suborbital flight? They claim first flight for HEAT 1600 in 2014 or 2015 yet 2020 for first manned flight, does that sound about right then? Must say I've never been this excited by a DIY project before!
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#10
by
Morten C.
on 15 May, 2013 22:20
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I'm trying to get a good grip on their future plans.
In CS's Youtube video of the third TM65 static fire (the one with a partial failure) they mention that the TM65 is being retired and that a new engine will be built. They happen to have a lot of dodgy translations so perhaps they were referring only to that particular engine and that the TM65 production will continue? This is further complicated because I was under the impression that they are also developing a much larger engine.
Is the HEAT 1600 the tentative final design for their actual manned flight? Will 4xTM65 be sufficient for a suborbital flight? They claim first flight for HEAT 1600 in 2014 or 2015 yet 2020 for first manned flight, does that sound about right then? Must say I've never been this excited by a DIY project before!
Yes HEAT 1600 is the rocket that will launch the TDS capsule.
New concept picture from their website
Carsten Brand/CSand yes there was talk about TM250, but once they started to look at the cost of the HEAT 1600 rocket things changed a bit.
Help! We need to find a cheaper fire pump!We got all the alloy at a bargain price - 14 kr / kg. But - 1,600 rocket requires immediately 4 pcs ends a 8500 kr plus VAT, and 2 NP4000 pumps from Johstadt a 14000 eur.
The two things I would like to have the price down to - for it is 174,000 kr total. It is a very interesting problem - I love not having any money and had to think of something clever.
Regarding the pumps so there are two options: we can drop the single engine concept and flight 1600 4 x TM65. For TM65 can be pumped with the beautiful Svanehøj pumps - and they can be obtained for relatively small money in 500-1000 kr piece. As always have a cluster has the advantage that you do not have to develop a great engine - and the disadvantage that you have to through "a plumbers nightmare" to spin the eight pumps up, turn four engines, see all is well and get damn machine loose. But this is a possibility. We TM65 is a pretty healthy design - and model 2 is adjusted for the mistake that destroyed dyseskørtet on model 1
The alternative is to find someone other pumps than the expensive but delicious from Johstadt. We need a centrifugal pump - typically a fire pump with a Capacity of 3-4000 liters per second at 10 to 12 bar. It should preferably be made of cast light metal.
But when?
Progress will tell. Right now they are building the tanks for the rocket and plan to test fire it in an "all up" configuration on the new VTC3 test stand, first with one engine, and then progress from there.
Kristian von Bengtson like to have his capsule tested and evaluated in 2014, so maybe a single engine version will fly first and then a 4 engine version in 2015?
But from there to Peter Madsen fly? Not sure if even CS knows?
Regards
Edit: Put in picture
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#11
by
Morten C.
on 25 May, 2013 13:36
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Article on Ing.dk about HEAT 1600
Here are the rocket to shoot Peter Madsen into spaceWhen Peter Madsen then comes in the room with the Heat in 1600, he dare not predict too specific about - and then anyway. Around 2020, he believes that it may be realistic that he gets into the rocket.
In the first 3 to 4 firings - one per year starting from 2015 - is the only doll Randy's being shot off.
Quote edited a little do to google translate mistakes
Fact box from article
TM65 Tordenskjold II
Type: regenarativ cooled liquid rocket engine
Pressure: 65 to 90 kN
Specific impulse, sea level: 200 sec
Specific impulse, vacuum: 230 sec
Power cycle: gas generator
Propellants: liquid oxygen / 75% bioethanol
O / F ratio: 1.3
Turbine Pump:
Propellant: 80% H202 / potassium permanganate
Power: 120 kW.
Design: Single-stage impulse turbine which drives two pumps on the common shaft.
HEAT 1600 LE (see drawings at the top)
Type: subshell ballistic actively managed launcher
Diameter: 1600 mm
Length ex payload: 12 meters
Start Weight ex propellant: 1400 kg.
Propellant 3000 kg
Number of engines: 1 piece center-mounted TM65 TORDENSKJOLD II
Application: launch of the TYCHO capsule for 30 - 60 km altitude.
HEAT 1600
Type: subshell ballistic actively managed launcher / 1 stage booster
Diameter: 1600 mm
Length ex payload: 12 meters
Start Weight ex propellant: 2100 kg.
Propellant: 12000 kg
Number of engines: 4 pcs TM65 TORDENSKJOLD II
Application: launch of the TYCHO capsule on suborbital paths in the space above 100 km.
HEAT 2X
Type: subshell ballistic actively managed launcher
Diameter: 650 mm
Length ex payload: 8 meters
Start Weight ex propellant 700 kg.
Drivmiddelmasse 1200 kg
Number of engines: 1 piece TM65, in a version proceeded turbine, and with reduced thrust.
Application: launch of the 1/3 scale TYCHO capsule on suborbital courses of 30 - 60 km altitude.
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#12
by
Prober
on 25 May, 2013 14:35
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very exciting read
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#13
by
guckyfan
on 29 May, 2013 12:23
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Talk about Lego-Rockets. Copenhagen Suborbital is at least building a Lego Rocket-Teststand.
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#14
by
Prober
on 29 May, 2013 14:16
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Talk about Lego-Rockets. Copenhagen Suborbital is at least building a Lego Rocket-Teststand.
noticed that, seems to work real well for the project. Does anyone know is that an off the shelf concrete product someone can purchase, or was that a CS design?
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#15
by
Morten C.
on 29 May, 2013 17:12
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Talk about Lego-Rockets. Copenhagen Suborbital is at least building a Lego Rocket-Teststand.
noticed that, seems to work real well for the project. Does anyone know is that an off the shelf concrete product someone can purchase, or was that a CS design?
They are owned by Refshaleøens Real Estate Company. If they was part of the old shipyard or got there later i do not know.
But there is tons there that is not being used for anything, CS is allowed to use anyone of them as long they are not needed for anything else
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#16
by
Prober
on 29 May, 2013 19:04
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Thx, a very good reuse for another project. A very good way to keep costs down.
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#17
by
FutureSpaceTourist
on 28 Jun, 2013 20:33
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#18
by
Steven Pietrobon
on 01 Jul, 2013 06:54
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CS might want to place a lightning rod on top of the tower, just in case. :-)
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#19
by
pberrett
on 29 Jul, 2013 12:35
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There's one thing I don't understand about Copenhagen Suborbitals. At some point (i.e. when it looks likely that CS are going to put an actual human on a rocket) won't the Danish Government step in with a whole lot of red tape that would make it commercially impractical to fly anybody?
I'm figuring that the Danish Government wouldn't want the bad publicity of CS having a bad day because the finger of blame might get pointed at them.
Thoughts?
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#20
by
QuantumG
on 30 Jul, 2013 15:50
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They've been through that already, and made some good government contacts that are protecting them.
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#21
by
spectre9
on 31 Jul, 2013 10:11
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I don't see why it's any different to any sort of extreme sports.
There was a guy that died recently using one of those flying man skydiving suits. I'm sure the government was not responsible for that.
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#22
by
R7
on 31 Jul, 2013 11:36
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I don't see why it's any different to any sort of extreme sports.
There was a guy that died recently using one of those flying man skydiving suits. I'm sure the government was not responsible for that.
Remember that this is Europe and EU. Way too many bureaucrats per citizen who love their jobs and are always on the lookout for new things to 'bureaucracize' with directives/permits and what not. If somebody somewhere gets injured or killed then it's a sign that there isn't enough regulation, because of thinking that in perfectly regulated world nobody gets injured or killed.
Last year Chamonix had four wing suit accidents in one week resulting the mayor banning the activity indefinitely. Now the ban is lifted but new regulation is in place.
I fear similar backlash if CS flight goes bad, and it may have EU wide effects.
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#23
by
Morten C.
on 01 Oct, 2013 18:00
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There's one thing I don't understand about Copenhagen Suborbitals. At some point (i.e. when it looks likely that CS are going to put an actual human on a rocket) won't the Danish Government step in with a whole lot of red tape that would make it commercially impractical to fly anybody?
I'm figuring that the Danish Government wouldn't want the bad publicity of CS having a bad day because the finger of blame might get pointed at them.
Thoughts?
Have to remember that launch operation takes place in international waters, at the moment close to the danish island Bornholm, but it could be where ever there is sea.
In teori that means no national jurisdiction apply, when outside the 12 nautical miles territorial waters. Ofcause danish law apply on the boats itself as they sail under danish flag.
CS have always stated that they will not fly commercially. If you wanna fly you join the club, and work your way to a ride.
New video with the first bits of HEAT-1600 hardware
Regards
Morten
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#24
by
Danderman
on 02 Oct, 2013 04:50
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There's one thing I don't understand about Copenhagen Suborbitals. At some point (i.e. when it looks likely that CS are going to put an actual human on a rocket) won't the Danish Government step in with a whole lot of red tape that would make it commercially impractical to fly anybody?
There is a good chance that the Danish government would indeed impose some sort of regulatory regime on Danish nationals flying into space, or on rockets, regardless of where the launch takes place.
This outfit does not launch enough to demonstrate a safety record, and simply having its "members" sign waivers will before flying should not be enough for the Danish government. The 3rd party liability issue is also significant, and the Danish government will want some assurances in the form of paperwork and performance to ensure that the people of Denmark are not stuck with a bill if some launch kills a cow in Germany.
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#25
by
R7
on 02 Oct, 2013 06:49
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There is a good chance that the Danish government would indeed impose some sort of regulatory regime on Danish nationals flying into space, or on rockets, regardless of where the launch takes place.
The Danish government is bound to do so by OST, it follows Sputnik everywhere.
Article VII
Each State Party to the Treaty that launches or procures the launching of an object into outer space, including the moon and other celestial bodies, and each State Party from whose territory or facility an object is launched, is internationally liable for damage to another State Party to the Treaty or to its natural or juridical persons by such object or its component parts on the Earth, in air or in outer space, including the moon and other celestial bodies.
