What's the best way to fund a large-scale commercial space project?

[JohnFornaro]

Big companies drop more than this amount on large projects. How much is a typical Rio Tinto mine development project. How much is a big skyscraper?

No question but that they invest large amounts of capital, larger in some cases than what I propose.  You've glossed over the business case for those investments however.

True, I would offer electrical power, a crucial pre-requisite for any lunar base activity.  Do you realize the mass constraints for an F9 payload landed on the Moon?  These constraints severely limit the power production of that very first plant.

A "build it and they will come" investor might conclude that the power offered would be a significant factor warranting her investment in this project.  However, "might" is just a different way of saying "if", as you do here:

But if you pony up your 240M and the mining guys pony up their xxxM and the transport guys pony up their yyyM...

Without knowing what "xxx" and "yyy" should be, another way of putting this is: "Who's on first, What's on second, and I Don't Know's on third."

I agree that the mining guys and the transport guys, if they could be convinced to launch more or less simultaneously, might be able to pull off the "build it and they will come" scenario, if they had the fourth person lined up.  Who would be "Naturally", continuing the analogy above.  The fourth person would be the hotelier, as I tell the story.

I've done a bit of work on the mining aspect, and even less on the transport aspect, but I do have a loose sense of the mass and costs that would be required.  Keep in mind that the mining guy would pay the power guy; the transport guy would pay the miner; the hotelier would pay for transport; and the tourist, who may be public or private, would pay the hotelier.

It only takes a minute to realize that this is much easier to say than it would be to present convincingly to the additional three investors.

[Lar]

No I'm not sure of the mass fraction you get to lunar surface... but it's not very big, I expect... from the 13 mT you get in LEO you have to subtract the TLI stage, and the lander (if we assume direct descent with no intermediate low lunar orbit) leaving not a lot for payload... SWAG of 1 or maybe 2 mT if you're lucky? What did you get?

Point being though, that even with your insanely cheap power,  saleable to the other pieces of the puzzle at a nice profit, you need someone to put up xxx and yyy... I really don't think tourism is the way to go to close the business case

I'm not actually arguing with you John. Just nodding my head sadly after musing out loud.

PS I remember someone somewhere long long ago did a study of what a self replicating pilot plant would take, with certain (fantastical) assumptions, masswise. It was lower than I thought possible.

here it is:  http://www.islandone.org/MMSG/aasm/  from 1980!!!!
and another one: http://www.niac.usra.edu/files/studies/final_report/880Chirikjian.pdf from 2004

Ahahaa check out figure 7 in the second paper... Space 1999 ships and transport equipment, modeled in .... LEGO

[A_M_Swallow]

I suspect that the hotel will be self catering, so more of a YMCA.

How electricity is needed to produce fuel for a single Moon to Earth trip per year and oxygen for 2 weeks plus 10 kW to power the building?

(The Earth to Moon fuel comes from the Earth.)

[Lar]

I suspect that the hotel will be self catering, so more of a YMCA.

How electricity is needed to produce fuel for a single Moon to Earth trip per year and oxygen for 2 weeks plus 10 kW to power the building?

(The Earth to Moon fuel comes from the Earth.)

The Earth to LEO fuel should come from Earth. ALL the rest should be ISRU lunar. Including TLI and return fuel.

[JohnFornaro]

No I'm not sure of the mass fraction you get to lunar surface... but it's not very big...

Ayup.

I'm not actually arguing with you John. Just nodding my head sadly after musing out loud.

I quite understand.  Thanks for your condolences.

[A_M_Swallow]

I suspect that the hotel will be self catering, so more of a YMCA.

How electricity is needed to produce fuel for a single Moon to Earth trip per year and oxygen for 2 weeks plus 10 kW to power the building?

(The Earth to Moon fuel comes from the Earth.)

The Earth to LEO fuel should come from Earth. ALL the rest should be ISRU lunar. Including TLI and return fuel.

Transporting the Moon_to_LEO fuel from the Moon requires a delta-V of 5.93 km/s, which will make the delivered fuel very expensive.  Cost control will require things like reusable SEP tugs.  Too complex for the first missions.

[Lar]

Transporting the Moon_to_LEO fuel from the Moon requires a delta-V of 5.93 km/s, which will make the delivered fuel very expensive.  Cost control will require things like reusable SEP tugs.  Too complex for the first missions.

I don't think I agree. Fuel from earth will be more expensive than fuel from the moon. Even to LEO. That's the whole premise of ISRU.

[A_M_Swallow]

Transporting the Moon_to_LEO fuel from the Moon requires a delta-V of 5.93 km/s, which will make the delivered fuel very expensive.  Cost control will require things like reusable SEP tugs.  Too complex for the first missions.

I don't think I agree. Fuel from earth will be more expensive than fuel from the moon. Even to LEO. That's the whole premise of ISRU.

Prepare cost estimates.  Allow for machines on the Moon.  You may get different results for 10 years time and 100 years.