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#20
by
Artyom.
on 22 Jul, 2013 10:03
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Designers inspection of Progress M-20M cargo vehicle and payload shroud roll were performedAt Baikonur launch site the preparations continue for the launch of Progress M-20M cargo vehicle under the International Space Station program.
Designers inspection of the Progress M-20M cargo vehicle was completed.
Payload shroud roll on to the Progress M-20M cargo vehicle was performed.
http://www.energia.ru/en/iss/iss36/progress_m-20m/photo_07-22.html
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#21
by
Danderman
on 22 Jul, 2013 13:55
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So, what modifications have been made to this Progress, apart from the speculation that this would be the Progress that would remove Pirs from ISS?
Does this have the modified solar panels, or the upgraded communications system?
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#22
by
Stan Black
on 22 Jul, 2013 14:02
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So, what modifications have been made to this Progress, apart from the speculation that this would be the Progress that would remove Pirs from ISS?
Does this have the modified solar panels, or the upgraded communications system?
Modified for Pirs removal as per L2
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#23
by
jacqmans
on 22 Jul, 2013 18:45
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MEDIA ADVISORY M13-115
Space Station Cargo Ship Activities to Air on NASA TV
WASHINGTON -- NASA Television will provide live coverage of the departure of one Russian cargo spacecraft from the International Space Station (ISS) on Thursday, July 25 and the launch and docking of another to the station Saturday, July 27.
The ISS Progress 50 resupply ship currently moored to the space station's Pirs docking compartment will undock at 4:43 p.m. EDT Thursday. Progress 50 arrived at the station in February, and will depart filled with trash and then burn up during reentry over the Pacific Ocean. NASA TV coverage of undocking will begin at 4:30 p.m.
The departure will clear Pirs for the arrival of ISS Progress 52, another unpiloted cargo craft loaded with almost three tons of food, fuel, supplies and experiment hardware for the six crew members aboard the orbiting laboratory. Progress 52 is scheduled to launch at 4:45 p.m. Saturday (2:45 a.m. Kazakh time Sunday, July 28) from the Baikonur Cosmodrome in Kazakhstan. NASA TV coverage of launch begins at 4:30 p.m.
Progress 52's expedited four-orbit, six-hour trip to the station will result in rendezvous and docking at 10:26 p.m. NASA TV coverage of rendezvous and docking will begin at 9:45 p.m.
For NASA TV downlink, schedule and streaming video information, visit:
http://www.nasa.gov/ntv For more about the International Space Station, visit:
http://www.nasa.gov/station-end-
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#24
by
Danderman
on 22 Jul, 2013 22:31
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IF this is the Progress that will remove Pirs, here are some of the issues:
C/G: the Progress/Pirs stack must have the c/g within the Progress' range of control authority. However, unlike a standard visiting vehicle that is intended to dock with ISS, the required controlability for this stack are the requirements for stable flight from ISS and retrofire. In theory, even if the c/g requirements are not strictkly met, departure from ISS via springs would take the stack far enough away that an poorly controlled stack would not be a threat to ISS.
So, the real requirement is control during retrofire. The easiest way to maintain the c/g for Progress with a large object on its nose is to maintain as much prop as possible in the rear compartment, and instead use midsection prop whenever possible. Leaving ~880 kg of prop in the PAO would go far in maintenance of a +1 ton object on the nose of Progress.
Another approach would be a change in the arrangement of trash in the cargo compartment so that heavy objects could be stored in the extreme rear, but this is probably already being done.
In all cases, if trash is to be added to Pirs before separation, it is going to be light trash, not used batteries and the like, unless the Progress c/g modifications are more extensive than those above.
IF the modifications are required to be more extensive, they would be obvious in the photos - for example, addition or enlargement of thrusters would be one approach.
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#25
by
woods170
on 23 Jul, 2013 06:40
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IF this is the Progress that will remove Pirs, here are some of the issues:
Not if. Progress 52 is scheduled to remove Pirs from ISS.
52P is the last planned vehicle for Pirs, per L2. The next vehicle coming up towards the Zvezda nadir port is MLM. Currently, Pirs is there, and it needs to go. Progress 52 will take Pirs with it.
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#26
by
Artyom.
on 23 Jul, 2013 11:08
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The orbital module of the LV Soyuz-U with CV Progress M-20M transportation for the general integration with LVAt Baikonur launch site the preparations continue for the launch of Progress M-20M cargo vehicle under the International Space Station program.
Orbital module of the Soyuz-U launch vehicle, containing Progress M-20M spacecraft was transported from the spacecraft processing facility for the general integration with LV.
http://www.energia.ru/en/iss/iss36/progress_m-20m/photo_07-23.html
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#27
by
Artyom.
on 23 Jul, 2013 12:28
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#28
by
Space Pete
on 23 Jul, 2013 12:41
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So, if 52P is definitely going to remove Pirs, that means it will have to remain on-orbit for at least 9.5 months (until next April). I thought Progresses had an orbital lifetime limit of around 6 months, due to corrosion of the propellant lines in the peroxide thruster system?
Unless of course Russia are going to remove Pirs prior to the MLM launch - which I think would be a seriously bad idea, given Proton's history of late.
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#29
by
Satori
on 23 Jul, 2013 13:42
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So, if 52P is definitely going to remove Pirs, that means it will have to remain on-orbit for at least 9.5 months (until next April). I thought Progresses had an orbital lifetime limit of around 6 months, due to corrosion of the propellant lines in the peroxide thruster system?
Unless of course Russia are going to remove Pirs prior to the MLM launch - which I think would be a seriously bad idea, given Proton's history of late.
According to
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=32006.msg1067644#msg1067644, Progress M-22M will be used to remove Pirs next April (or December 18, 2013).
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#30
by
Danderman
on 23 Jul, 2013 13:44
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So, if 52P is definitely going to remove Pirs, that means it will have to remain on-orbit for at least 9.5 months (until next April). I thought Progresses had an orbital lifetime limit of around 6 months, due to corrosion of the propellant lines in the peroxide thruster system?
The peroxide thruster system is for the descent module, which Progress does not have.
Progress has a demonstrated orbital lifetime of at least 18 months.
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#31
by
Stan Black
on 23 Jul, 2013 15:29
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So, if 52P is definitely going to remove Pirs, that means it will have to remain on-orbit for at least 9.5 months (until next April). I thought Progresses had an orbital lifetime limit of around 6 months, due to corrosion of the propellant lines in the peroxide thruster system?
The peroxide thruster system is for the descent module, which Progress does not have.
Progress has a demonstrated orbital lifetime of at least 18 months.
So the question is, is the issue with the centre-of-gravity Progress specific? Have they swapped Progress vehicles? Or is it just propellant or other loading specifics?
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#32
by
Danderman
on 23 Jul, 2013 15:43
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Center of gravity issues are general for all vehicles, ie it is a characteristic of spacecraft that require propulsion, just like center of lift is an issue for aircraft.
Normally, you don't hear about it because spacecraft are not required to perform maneuvers with modified c/gs, but in this case, adding a 1 ton+ module to the nose of Progress would put the c/g forward of the thruster controlability zone.
As an example, when the crew loads trash into Progress, they make sure that the trash is loaded in a way that maintains vehicle c/g, with the heavier trash being loaded in the rear of the cargo compartment. If the trash were loaded improperly, it is possible that Progress would have control problems when departing from ISS.
The Progress thruster system was designed to minimize prop use via a narrowly defined control zone. Other vehicles, like Dragon, may use more prop in their system, but have a "wider" control zone (required because Dragon may fly with an offset c/g in some mission).
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#33
by
aga
on 23 Jul, 2013 16:12
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Unless of course Russia are going to remove Pirs prior to the MLM launch - which I think would be a seriously bad idea, given Proton's history of late.
correct me, if i am wrong... but i always thought that nauka will be launched on a 3-stage proton - without briz-m or block-dm (or so)
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#34
by
russianhalo117
on 23 Jul, 2013 16:51
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Unless of course Russia are going to remove Pirs prior to the MLM launch - which I think would be a seriously bad idea, given Proton's history of late.
correct me, if i am wrong... but i always thought that nauka will be launched on a 3-stage proton - without briz-m or block-dm (or so)
Yes, it is using the 3-stage version without a US on top. I believe he is referring to the early starts off the launch pad this year and part of last year, which are off nominal, as well as the recent first stage failure since it was manufactured around the same time period as the failed 02 July 2013 Proton-M which was manufactured in 2011. Do correct me on the date of manufacture since I may be slightly off.
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#35
by
russianhalo117
on 23 Jul, 2013 17:19
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Are these still Progress M1 vehicles or has the model evolved on since then?
Progress M1 had some very advanced features, but was discontinued due to expense and lack of requirements for the extra prop that it could carry.
It is my present understanding that Progress MS is going to be modernized hybrid of three Progress versions, one of which has never flown (Progress M-M, Progress M1, and Progress M2 (fully developed but never flown because it would require Ukrainian Zenit-2 launcher)). Anatoly Zak explained Progress MS as having two different versions: one with standard prop module and one with extended prop module. Progress MS's other modules have been designed to be compatible with both prop modules so that two the different versions (Progress M and Progress M1) of previous generation can be consolidated down to one version Progress MS. Progress MS also will incorporate the features that were left out of the design for Progress M-M. There is more on this in a different thread.
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#36
by
Nicolas PILLET
on 23 Jul, 2013 18:48
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anik, I think it would be good to create a new thread and to put these (very interesting) informations into it.
If they stay here, the informations will be forgotten...
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#37
by
woods170
on 24 Jul, 2013 09:17
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So, if 52P is definitely going to remove Pirs, that means it will have to remain on-orbit for at least 9.5 months (until next April). I thought Progresses had an orbital lifetime limit of around 6 months, due to corrosion of the propellant lines in the peroxide thruster system?
Unless of course Russia are going to remove Pirs prior to the MLM launch - which I think would be a seriously bad idea, given Proton's history of late.
According to http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=32006.msg1067644#msg1067644, Progress M-22M will be used to remove Pirs next April (or December 18, 2013).
Which means that not even Anik is sure of when Pirs will go. If it actually is December 18, 2013, and the vehicle is Progress M-22M, than the flight op 52P (Progress M-20M) will have to be cut short, or it will have to be relocated to a different docking port.
By the latest FPIP in L2 (July 1st version) Progress M22M (54P) is not scheduled to launch until early February 2014. Can the processing of Progress be advanced by 3 months to have M-22M do the Pirs disposal in december 2013? I don't think so.
IMO the scenario is like this:
- If Pirs is to go coming december than the disposal will be thru Progress M-20M (52P)
- If Pirs is to go april next year (per the delay we keep hearing for MLM), then disposal will probably be thru Progress M-22M (54P)
Assuming Anik is correct (Pirs to go in April 2014), then the FPIP on L2 is outdated.
And mind you, by the latest FPIP on L2, 54P is not set to dock to Pirs, but to MRM-2.
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#38
by
woods170
on 24 Jul, 2013 09:25
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<snip>
Unless of course Russia are going to remove Pirs prior to the MLM launch - which I think would be a seriously bad idea, given Proton's history of late.
Removal of Pirs before the Proton launch will probably not happen, so it all comes down to getting a hard confirmation of the MLM launch delay.
Without that, a lot of RS flight events are in flux.
Looking at the latest ISS flight events calender from Anik, it seems that he is no longer sure MLM will actually be delayed. Flight events in 2014 now have indicators pointing to possible execution in late 2013.
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#39
by
Artyom.
on 24 Jul, 2013 11:23
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