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Planning visit to Huntsville Alabama US Space&Rocket Center and MSFC (Q&A) by Moskit on 10 Apr, 2013 21:20
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(haven't found such a topic yet)
Fine Forum Dwellers, please advise on visiting the Alabama space complex.
Intro:
MSFC (Marshall Space Flight Center) is a NASA facility located on Redstone Arsenal ground. It is less known than iconic KSC (launches) or famous Houston (control)
http://www.nasa.gov/centers/marshall/home/index.html
General public can access a visitor center called US Space & Rocket Center (USSRC) located just outside the military complex:
http://rocketcenter.com/
USSRC organizes short bus tours to MSFC to see the historical Redstone sites. This tour is restricted to US citizens, as Redstone is an active military installation.
Questions for starters:
- is it possible to obtain a permit for MSFC bus tour for a foreigner?
Edwards AFB and other military installations issue special permits if you forward passport data in advance for a security check.
I have not received any reply from USSRC, MSFC or Redstone for that question.
- are there other space-related locations outside of Redstone that are worth visiting for people interested in space/air technology? (say, within 2-3 hour drive range)
- how much of USSRC content is just entertainment rather than museum quality facts?
Say, compared to KSC Florida or Houston Texas visitor centers (which were disappointingly light on information beyond "crowd amusement" level).
- for people who will probably have just one chance to be there (as most foreigners), what are the "don't miss" things in the USSRC, especially those smaller than Saturn rocket and easier to overlook? ;-) -
#1 by simonbp on 11 Apr, 2013 00:54
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General public can access a visitor center called US Space & Rocket Center USSRC organizes short bus tours to MSFC to see the historical Redstone sites. This tour is restricted to US citizens, as Redstone is an active military installation.
Questions for starters:
- is it possible to obtain a permit for MSFC bus tour for a foreigner?
Edwards AFB and other military installations issue special permits if you forward passport data in advance for a security check.
I have not received any reply from USSRC, MSFC or Redstone for that question.
I hadn't even heard that they had restarted public tours. They used to be quite regular, but were cancelled after 9/11. I honestly doubt you could get on the Arsenal. But really, all the interesting stuff in in the museum anyway.Quote- are there other space-related locations outside of Redstone that are worth visiting for people interested in space/air technology? (say, within 2-3 hour drive range)
Not really. The closest aircraft museum that I know is the Beechcraft museum in Tullahoma, TN (60 miles north). Jack Daniel's Distillery is on the way, and they give great tours!Quote- how much of USSRC content is just entertainment rather than museum quality facts?
Say, compared to KSC Florida or Houston Texas visitor centers (which were disappointingly light on information beyond "crowd amusement" level).
It is by far the most informative/nerdy of the three. KSC has better production value, but the USSRC has just so much cool stuff. Like a V-2, Redstone, and H-1 engines in a row so you see the evolution. Also, look for lots of hidden/forgotten stuff in the old building (the one that has the IMAX theatre). There are a couple props from the movie "Marooned" hidden in there.Quote- for people who will probably have just one chance to be there (as most foreigners), what are the "don't miss" things in the USSRC, especially those smaller than Saturn rocket and easier to overlook? ;-)
The vertical Saturn V mockup is a great picnic spot, right under the mock F-1s...
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#2 by Moskit on 11 Apr, 2013 15:24
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Thanks for input :-)
You are right that most if not all of such tours were cancelled in 2001.
Edwards AFB opened again in 2007 or 2008. Visit requires earlier clearance but they allow all tourists:
http://www.edwards.af.mil/questions/topic.asp?id=812
Sadly Dryden no longer offers tours since December 2011:
http://www.nasa.gov/centers/dryden/about/Dryden/tour.html
Goldstone offers public tours, all tourists are allowed after clearance procedure:
http://www.gdscc.nasa.gov/?page_id=35
MSFC bus tours were restored in July 2012. They said this is for "all public visiting", but in fact is restricted to US citizens and people who already have access from MSFC/Redstone:
http://www.nasa.gov/centers/marshall/news/news/releases/2012/12-065.html
With MSFC and other locations open only for US folks it is now a bit hard to visit what was previously available much wider. I did not have a chance to be there before 2001, then I had to skip my long "wanted" EAFB/Dryden altogether due to security closure. And just when I went to KSC there was a hurricane, so I missed my chance to go on historic Now&Then tour.
Going to a specific site itself instead of only seeing the museum has a lot of value for me, as it evokes atmosphere and sense of continuity in the work done there. It is an experience by itself for me, separate from seeing final results of the work (rockets). Pity that it has become very hard to do those days, as if an opportunity window closed. I always envied US folks that they can be tourists in such great engineering places.
I'm glad that USSRC is more informative than other centers!
Also thanks for the hint of whisky, this is close enough to take a sip :-) -
#3 by JWag on 11 Apr, 2013 17:12
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The vertical Saturn V mockup is a great picnic spot, right under the mock F-1s...
Are they really mock F1s? The nozzle extensions obviously are, but the engines themselves have so much authentic-looking plumbing I assumed they had to be The Real Thing. Especially after comparing them to the SIC inside.
If they're dummies, they're excellent, and deserve to have better-looking nozzle extensions fitted. -
#4 by Moskit on 16 May, 2013 13:03
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Once again thank you for your input guys!
Here's a post-visit answer to my own questions:
Q: Is it possible to obtain a permit for MSFC bus tour for a foreigner?
A: Not for bus tour starting from USSRC.
Redstone Arsenal is an active military location. After 2001 American terrorist attacks they restricted visits. USSRC entered an agreement with Redstone/MSFC where they are allowed to bring tourists under condition that they verify USA citizenship, and that groups are escorted by USSRC personel all the time.
This agreement does not allow USSRC to take non-USA citizens on board, even if they had a permit obtained elsewhere.
One option to enter Redstone Arsenal is therefore to obtain USA citizenship ;-)
Another is also hard, as it requires Arsenal resident to apply for permit on your behalf, and later escort you whole time on Arsenal premises. Unless you know someone in there who would vouch for you this is not an option, as there is no program/person in place to handle such requests.
Q:are there other space-related locations outside of Redstone that are worth visiting for people interested in space/air technology? (say, within 2-3 hour drive range)
A: nothing close by, but see below for other places
Other attractions worth visiting, although with longer travel and not space-related:
- Jack Daniel's distillery, Lynchburg Tennessee, about 45 miles NE. 2-hour tour of the old part (still operating) is a fantastic insight into making of a whisky.
http://www.jackdaniels.com/visit
- Beechcraft Heritage Musem, Tulahoma Tennessee, about 60 miles NE. Well, something for Beechraft fans out there :-)
http://www.beechcraftheritagemuseum.org/
- Southern Museum of Flight, Birmingham Alabama, about 110 miles S. Excellent aircraft collection, including a lovely A-12 (one can never get enough of these).
http://www.southernmuseumofflight.org/
- USS Alabama, Mobile Alabama, about 360 miles SW. Huge battleship, submarine, and a bunch of airplanes too, including... A-12 :-)
http://www.ussalabama.com/
- National Naval Aviation Museum, Pensacola Florida, about 360 miles S. Plenty of airplanes, not only Naval ones.
http://www.navalaviationmuseum.org/
- Eglin Airforce Armament Musem, Eglin Florida, about 330 miles S. Another SR-71 ("Big Tail") on display outdoors, indoors plenty of missiles and bombs.
http://www.afarmamentmuseum.com/
Q: how much of USSRC content is just entertainment rather than museum quality facts?
A: it is richer in technical information/facts, a bit better in that respect than KSC/Houston, but still a large part (over 1/3) is pure fun/kids zone.
Outdoor display is the best I've seen - rockets arranged in a way that allows to understand evolution and history of their construction, comparing subsequent models standing next to each other. I preferred it over KSC.
Shuttle/tank/SRB mock up that you can walk under also makes you realize huge size of the shuttle much better than KSC one.
Saturn V is something you can't miss (literally, it's seen from a large distance on a highway). There are two - one standing upright, making you realise the exceptional size; and another one arranged horizontally, almost like in KSC. This dual display is just fantastic!
When in main Saturn V building, take notice of volunteers who can guide you around the display. I had the luck and privilege to meet Mike Pessin, chief engineer of shuttle External Tank, who earlier worked on propulsion too. He spent almost 2 hours chatting about technical details well beyond what visitors usually ask about, and provided a boatload of anecdotes. It was definitely the highlight of the whole visit - reminder it's not just hardware, it's people behind it too!
http://www.jsc.nasa.gov/history/oral_histories/STS-R/PessinMA/PessinMA_6-30-10.htm
On the other hand I do not recommend IMAX theatre at all, movies are without much substance/technicalities, meant to entertain kids mainly (and people who do not know much).
Say, compared to KSC Florida or Houston Texas visitor centers (which were disappointingly light on information beyond "crowd amusement" level).
Q: for people who will probably have just one chance to be there (as most foreigners), what are the "don't miss" things in the USSRC, especially those smaller than Saturn rocket and easier to overlook? ;-)
A: there is so much to see it's hard to answer my own question ;-) Check out shuttle wing panels used in actual impact testing after Columbia incident. There is also quite a lot of information/items on von Braun that are worth noticing
