Author Topic: Accelerated charged bodies / inertia-like effects via induction?  (Read 1959 times)

Offline Xpl0rer

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Hi guys,

I had thought up an experiment some time ago that looks as follows (and hopefully makes sense):

Imagine two metallic rods that have been charged up with a surplus amount of electrons. The rods are being constantly accelerated by some mechanical means, for instance by a motor-driven rotor that's electrically isolated from the rods, so they keep a constant charge. The rods are placed on the opposing edges of the rotor in tangential fashion.

Moving charges through a cross section is generally equivalent to an electrical current. Since the rods are constantly getting accelerated, not only do they each produce a linearly increasing magnetic eddy field around themselves, but because of the constant acceleration a constant electrical eddy field, too. That induced electrical eddy field is always directed in a way that the rod's surplus charges experience a force that increases the resistance of the rods against the acceleration of the rotor that's produced by the motor. This should be equivalent to the inductive effects within a conductor while increasing the current that's flowing: a voltage is induced within the conductor that slows down the accelerating electrons a bit while the magnetic field is changing.

This resistance against acceleration should IMHO grow quadratically with the rod's charge: 2x charge -> 2x eddy B-field -> 2x eddy E-field -> F = 2Q*2E = 4x force.

In case my thoughts were correct so far, would this not produce an additional inertia-like effect because there is a resistive force against acceleration felt? Or are one or more assumptions flawed?

Cheers,
Xpl0rer
« Last Edit: 03/28/2013 05:23 PM by Xpl0rer »

Offline Xpl0rer

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Any ideas or comments yet? If my reasoning is correct, there'd possibly be a way to use this resistive force to produce a propulsive effect. So I thought that this is worth discussing.

Cheers,

Offline ChrisWilson68

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In case my thoughts were correct so far, would this not produce an additional inertia-like effect because there is a resistive force against acceleration felt? Or are one or more assumptions flawed?

According to known physics, nothing that happens within a device can affect how it responds to an external force -- the device will always respond to a force F with an acceleration of a = F/m, where m is the mass of the device.  This is a mathematically proven property of all known laws of physics, including electromagnetism.

Since you're relying on known laws of physics in your analysis, if your conclusion is that you get an inertia-like effect, your analysis is incorrect.

Offline Xpl0rer

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Hmm.. I had a talk some time ago with a methodically very strict physics professor who regularly gives lectures about electromagnetic fields and waves. I showed him the experiment's draft and after some thinking he agreed that, in principle, my deductions were correct and there would be an observable drag force. The only difficulty he pointed out was that it would be difficult to store enough additional charges on the accelerating object to easily measure the resulting additional forces against acceleration.

What I did with the setup is to cut up an electric circuit and "emulated" a flowing current by rotating a charged body. If the body is accelerated, an additional electrical eddy current field arises that's directed against the surplus charges' movement of the body. It's exactly the same effect as with regular induction when you linearly increase a current through a conductor. The linearly growing magnetic eddy field produces a constant electrical eddy current field that's slowing down the current change through the conductor. No net forces are observed within conductors normally because the amount of charges within a conductor is balanced. If there were an external electrical eddy current field permeating an uncharged conductor, negative and positive charges of the conductor would experience equal but opposite forces and thus a sum force of Zero on the overall conductor occurs.

Offline cordwainer

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What you have is similar to a homopolar flywheel. Problem is that friction forces will still limit the amount of inertial force you can apply. While the suspended body will not have to be subject to friction the motors spindle will be, even using a free suspension induction motor the motor will still be subject to electrodynamic and electromagnetic drag and heat via Lorentz forces like those in a railgun or coilgun.

Offline cordwainer

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Nano-FET works on a similar process but it used those electromagnetic eddy's to propel nano-particles for reaction mass leading to thrust.

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