Author Topic: SpaceX Falcon 9 v1.1 - CASSIOPE - September, 2013 - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD (Read 560649 times)

mlindner · « **Reply #600 on:** 08/30/2013 07:31 am »

Quote from: Lars_J on 08/30/2013 07:29 am

Quote from: guckyfan on 08/30/2013 06:47 am
Quote from: Lars_J on 08/30/2013 05:45 am
Quote from: guckyfan on 08/30/2013 05:41 am
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tomcatphotography1/9625736164/

The Delta 4 Heavy rises from the pad. But see what the men in uniform are looking at. Anybody here noticed that detail?

Already noted in the previous page in this thread: http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=31429.msg1090049#msg1090049

I noticed the Falcon on the pad. Really a great find. But I specifically referred to the photo where the men in uniform look at the Falcon instead of the rising Delta. I don't see that in this thread before

I think you are misinterpreting the photo. Or do you really think that a rocket is launching right in front of them, but instead they are looking at pad with no activity? The picture is much more of a telephoto capture than it looks, which tweaks the perspective.

Was just about to respond and say that. The focal length is very wide here so its very likely the photo was taken significantly farther back and the angle between their apparent look angle and the actual look angle is significantly less. Also, they would have been standing there for many minutes already before launch, they would have had plenty of time to look at the SpaceX pad.

guckyfan · « **Reply #601 on:** 08/30/2013 07:34 am »

Quote from: Lars_J on 08/30/2013 07:29 am

I think you are misinterpreting the photo. Or do you really think that a rocket is launching right in front of them, but instead they are looking at pad with no activity? The picture is much more of a telephoto capture than it looks, which tweaks the perspective.

It's not a matter of interpretation or what I believe. It clearly shows them looking at Falcon 9, a very different direction to where the tourists right next to them are looking for the launch. But really I don't mean to interpret much into it. It's just funny.

Edit: BTW how far is the pad from their position? I am sure several km. How many seconds since the Delta launched? It may be possible that they missed the launch and the sound had not yet arrived, just a guess.

Lars_J · « **Reply #602 on:** 08/30/2013 08:18 am »

Quote from: guckyfan on 08/30/2013 07:34 am

Quote from: Lars_J on 08/30/2013 07:29 am

I think you are misinterpreting the photo. Or do you really think that a rocket is launching right in front of them, but instead they are looking at pad with no activity? The picture is much more of a telephoto capture than it looks, which tweaks the perspective.

It's not a matter of interpretation or what I believe. It clearly shows them looking at Falcon 9, a very different direction to where the tourists right next to them are looking for the launch. But really I don't mean to interpret much into it. It's just funny.

It clearly shows no such thing. If you think so, you should save the interpretation of pictures to others. They are facing away from us, in a direction that due to the telescopic foreshortening if perspective is difficult to determine.

douglas100 · « **Reply #603 on:** 08/30/2013 08:29 am »

What Lars_J said.

Can we move on, please?

ugordan · « **Reply #604 on:** 08/30/2013 08:44 am »

Wow, I wondered how long it would take for people to start talking about where the men in uniform were looking at. You people really have a gift for overanalyzing everything.

Also, what Lars_J and mlindner said.

pippin · « **Reply #605 on:** 08/30/2013 10:16 am »

Quote from: SpaceXamazing people on 08/30/2013 03:00 am

Reentry license? There's a license for everything sheesh! But isn't the First stage reentering the atmosphere too?

The first stage is coming down anyway. With good chances that it's in one piece.

MP99 · « **Reply #606 on:** 08/30/2013 02:01 pm »

Quote from: pippin on 08/30/2013 10:16 am

Quote from: SpaceXamazing people on 08/30/2013 03:00 am
Reentry license? There's a license for everything sheesh! But isn't the First stage reentering the atmosphere too?

The first stage is coming down anyway. With good chances that it's in one piece.

I believe the safety assumption would generally be that the stage breaks up before it hits, so any hits will be from smaller fragments (Shuttle [and other?] SRBs excluded).

A stage that stays in one piece, then maybe fails shortly before landing could drop a sizable hunk of metal on anyone unlucky enough to be underneath. That may be seen as a bigger safety / licensing issue? Not sure if that's what you were trying to say?

cheers, Martin

meekGee · « **Reply #607 on:** 08/30/2013 02:57 pm »

If you start here:
https://www.google.com/maps?q=vandenberg+afb&hl=en&ll=34.640093,-120.59967&spn=0.032483,0.052314&sll=37.266469,-122.02642&sspn=0.251368,0.41851&t=h&z=15

And plot out the lines of sight, you see that the two pads are visually very close to each other. It would be very difficult to tell who's looking at what - the lens simply opens up the view.

(Red for Delta, Yellow for F9, cross lines are my interpretation for the terrain (the two cross-creeks). Red structure on/behind the ridgeline shown in red circle)

Antares · « **Reply #608 on:** 08/30/2013 03:26 pm »

Safety of the first stage coming down is handled in launch licensing not entry licensing.

Garrett · « **Reply #609 on:** 08/30/2013 04:36 pm »

Quote from: Antares on 08/30/2013 03:26 pm

Safety of the first stage coming down is handled in launch licensing not entry licensing.

I presume you mean in the current setup, where the 1st stage lands downrange? For a return-to-launchpad situation, I would imagine that another form of licensing is required?

newpylong · « **Reply #610 on:** 08/30/2013 05:07 pm »

You can bet they don't give two sh*ts about the Falcon 9 doing a WDR...

Quote from: malu5531 on 08/30/2013 07:15 am

Quote from: guckyfan on 08/30/2013 06:47 am
I noticed the Falcon on the pad. Really a great find. But I specifically referred to the photo where the men in uniform look at the Falcon instead of the rising Delta. I don't see that in this thread before

Yes, I noticed that too. They seem to be more excited about the Falcon doing a WDR / Dry rehearsal than a ascending Delta IV heavy. Some would say they have their priorities right.

Ben the Space Brit · « **Reply #611 on:** 08/30/2013 07:21 pm »

Quote from: newpylong on 08/30/2013 05:07 pm

You can bet they don't give two sh*ts about the Falcon 9 doing a WDR

They definitely seem to be looking at SLC-6W rather than the ascending Delta-IVH. I know that SpaceX has picked up a few DoD contracts; maybe their job was to scope out the pad's security issues or something?

guckyfan · « **Reply #612 on:** 08/30/2013 07:41 pm »

Quote from: Ben the Space Brit on 08/30/2013 07:21 pm

Quote from: newpylong on 08/30/2013 05:07 pm
You can bet they don't give two sh*ts about the Falcon 9 doing a WDR

They definitely seem to be looking at SLC-6W rather than the ascending Delta-IVH. I know that SpaceX has picked up a few DoD contracts; maybe their job was to scope out the pad's security issues or something?

The Delta had launched a few seconds before. Quite possible that the sound had not reached that position and they just have missed the launch.

mlindner · « **Reply #613 on:** 08/30/2013 07:58 pm »

Quote from: guckyfan on 08/30/2013 07:41 pm

Quote from: Ben the Space Brit on 08/30/2013 07:21 pm
Quote from: newpylong on 08/30/2013 05:07 pm
You can bet they don't give two sh*ts about the Falcon 9 doing a WDR

They definitely seem to be looking at SLC-6W rather than the ascending Delta-IVH. I know that SpaceX has picked up a few DoD contracts; maybe their job was to scope out the pad's security issues or something?

The Delta had launched a few seconds before. Quite possible that the sound had not reached that position and they just have missed the launch.

Can we stop this line of discussion? They're military, they're here to observe the launch, they would have been standing there for 10+ minutes if not longer already if they wanted to look, the angles are close together so its impossible to determine the look angles. Occam's razor says they're looking at the D4H launch. End.

You guys are using the same reasoning the Moon landing hoaxers use to say the shadows pointing in different directions on the moon show evidence of a stage light.

pippin · « **Reply #614 on:** 08/30/2013 08:07 pm »

Quote from: MP99 on 08/30/2013 02:01 pm

underneath. That may be seen as a bigger safety / licensing issue? Not sure if that's what you were trying to say?

What Antares said above. First stage coming down is part of normal launch/range safety, it makes absolutely no sense to have a separate process for that, especially since you track the range where it does come down and you have termination systems.

Complete flyback might be a different animal but I'd assume they'd handle that as part of the launch planning, too.

But an upper stage returning can essentially come down anywhere and any time if things seriously go wrong, that's an entirely different animal.

myersd97 · « **Reply #615 on:** 08/31/2013 08:13 am »

Not to belabor the point, but If it helps, I was about 30 feet behind them, and they were definitely looking at the Delta.

Also, to further accentuate the point regarding the distance and telephoto perspective, it is actually further than the maps upthread show. You have to draw the lines all the way back across Ocean Ave onto Northbase, and then up on New Mexico/New Beach Road. We were very close to the gravel pit. Relative distance to the Delta pad is about 11 miles.

One last note, the Falcon has remained elevated since that day--looks like no payload still, but definitely elevated. Was on southbase today and confirmed that. Awesome to see it that close.