Author Topic: SpaceX Falcon 9 v1.1 - CASSIOPE - September, 2013 - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD (Read 515364 times)

Lurker Steve · « **Reply #780 on:** 09/13/2013 08:41 pm »

You can't push on a rope

Kabloona · « **Reply #781 on:** 09/13/2013 08:52 pm »

Quote from: Lurker Steve on 09/13/2013 07:29 pm

Quote from: Lars_J on 09/13/2013 05:27 pm
Quote from: Mader Levap on 09/13/2013 05:24 pm
STILL Sunday?
This is... hardcore...

Remember the first F9 launch? An abort and then launch within a few hours. They can move fast.

Of course, Orbital made sure the crew was well rested before the maiden launch, so they gave them a long weekend. It appears that SpaceX management has a different style. Push, Push, Push.

Then again, Antares doesn't have a 50 launch backlog, so Orbital can afford to not push so hard. SpaceX needs to ramp up to a one-per-month launch cadence, ASAP. I expect if Orbital had the same kind of backlog, they'd be cracking the whip too.

meekGee · « **Reply #782 on:** 09/13/2013 08:59 pm »

Quote from: Lurker Steve on 09/13/2013 07:29 pm

Quote from: Lars_J on 09/13/2013 05:27 pm
Quote from: Mader Levap on 09/13/2013 05:24 pm
STILL Sunday?
This is... hardcore...

Remember the first F9 launch? An abort and then launch within a few hours. They can move fast.

Of course, Orbital made sure the crew was well rested before the maiden launch, so they gave them a long weekend. It appears that SpaceX management has a different style. Push, Push, Push.

Steve - you make it sound like a 18th century coal mine...

I betcha the people involved, which at this point are a mix of development and operation people, are very emotionally vested in this launch, and it's more a matter of management holding them back from making mistakes because they're TOO involved.

So I'd guess, without being there, that people sat down like grown ups, weighted the risks and consequences of all options, and decided to continue at this pace.

douglas100 · « **Reply #783 on:** 09/13/2013 09:07 pm »

Quote from: meekGee on 09/13/2013 08:59 pm

..So I'd guess, without being there, that people set down like grown ups, weighted the risks and consequences of all options, and decided to continue at this pace.

You would hope so. Among the risks and consequences are burnout and staff turnover. But the point made earlier is true: they have to push because of the backlog. And QuantumG's description of his visit to Hawthorne suggests they are doing just that.

Chris Bergin · « **Reply #784 on:** 09/13/2013 09:14 pm »

Calm it down people!

mb199 · « **Reply #785 on:** 09/13/2013 09:20 pm »

You would hope so. Among the risks and consequences are burnout and staff turnover. But the point made earlier is true: they have to push because of the backlog. And QuantumG's description of his visit to Hawthorne suggests they are doing just that.

This is like Christmas day for these people! They probly need escorts to make them go home! LOL I am pretty sure they have not come this far and and waited this long that if they had to wait a day or 2 for them to to rest it would be done no question!

Kabloona · « **Reply #786 on:** 09/13/2013 09:22 pm »

The other schedule factors that likely drove SpaceX to push for a Sunday opportunity are (1) range conflicts with what sounds like upcoming VAFB missile ops that may tie up the range for a while, and (2) the high probability (60%) that any given day in September will have unfavorable weather conditions for meeting FAA safety standards. So the push to get a Sunday launch date was driven by a particular set of range constraints, it seems, not just "go fever."

(using my indoor voice, Chris.

douglas100 · « **Reply #787 on:** 09/13/2013 09:38 pm »

Just to clarify: in my previous post I was speaking generally about working at sustained intensity over a long period. I was not suggesting that this particular launch campaign is going to burn anyone out. I'm sure they are aware of the dangers of long-term burn out as much as anyone else.

Chris Bergin · « **Reply #788 on:** 09/13/2013 09:41 pm »

Quote from: Kabloona on 09/13/2013 09:22 pm

(using my indoor voice, Chris.

Heh!

What I don't get about people waving their you-know-what's around in the air over things like this is all these space company have - a lot of the time - hired from other companies. So when someone says "Oh, that decision wouldn't cut the mustard at Boeing," it was probably a former Boeing guy who made the decision based on improving practises from the time he was at Boeing.

Or maybe not, but one has to stop treating vehicles and companies like rival football teams (soccer or helmetball). There's a lot more commonality between them than one may assume.

Jason Sole · « **Reply #789 on:** 09/13/2013 09:49 pm »

But they do seem to be having a lot of problems with this new rocket Chris.

Robotbeat · « **Reply #790 on:** 09/13/2013 09:51 pm »

Quote from: Jason Sole on 09/13/2013 09:49 pm

But they do seem to be having a lot of problems with this new rocket Chris.

Couldn't it be because... it's a new rocket? Did you follow Atlas V's or Delta IV's inaugural launch with this detail?

mb199 · « **Reply #791 on:** 09/13/2013 09:54 pm »

Quote from: Robotbeat on 09/13/2013 09:51 pm

Quote from: Jason Sole on 09/13/2013 09:49 pm
But they do seem to be having a lot of problems with this new rocket Chris.
Couldn't it be because... it's a new rocket? Did you follow Atlas V's or Delta IV's inaugural launch with this detail?

Compared to what? This is not just a new rocket it is also a new launch pad!

Chris Bergin · « **Reply #792 on:** 09/13/2013 09:55 pm »

Quote from: Jason Sole on 09/13/2013 09:49 pm

But they do seem to be having a lot of problems with this new rocket Chris.

You kinda answered your own question there. It's a new (upgraded at least) vehicle and a brand new pad. And I wouldn't say they are having a "lot" of problems, they seem to be having some "what you might expect with a new rocket on a new pad" issues.....and you want your problems on the ground, not half way through first stage ascent.

Wowzers, this thread got to 200,000 views pretty fast!

Jim · « **Reply #793 on:** 09/13/2013 09:58 pm »

Quote from: meekGee on 09/13/2013 08:59 pm

So I'd guess, without being there, that people sat down like grown ups, weighted the risks and consequences of all options, and decided to continue at this pace.

Occam's razor would not lead to that conclusion. It would be more of a top down edict. Much like the frivolous assembly of F9-0.5 during the holiday season at the end of 2008.

Avron · « **Reply #794 on:** 09/13/2013 10:01 pm »

Quote from: Chris Bergin on 09/13/2013 09:55 pm

Quote from: Jason Sole on 09/13/2013 09:49 pm
But they do seem to be having a lot of problems with this new rocket Chris.

You kinda answered your own question there. It's a new (upgraded at least) vehicle and a brand new pad. And I wouldn't say they are having a "lot" of problems, they seem to be having some "what you might expect with a new rocket on a new pad" issues.....and you want your problems on the ground, not half way through first stage ascent.

Wowzers, this thread got to 200,000 views pretty fast!

Its a good thing that the have lots of problems on the ground, before they launch.. once you launch, there ain't much fixing..

Avron · « **Reply #795 on:** 09/13/2013 10:04 pm »

Quote from: Jim on 09/13/2013 09:58 pm

Quote from: meekGee on 09/13/2013 08:59 pm

So I'd guess, without being there, that people sat down like grown ups, weighted the risks and consequences of all options, and decided to continue at this pace.

Occam's razor would not lead to that conclusion. It would be more of a top down edict. Much like the frivolous assembly of F9-0.5 during the holiday season at the end of 2008.

If anyone other than Elon made the call to test again or launch.. I would find that realty difficult to belive

GalacticIntruder · « **Reply #796 on:** 09/13/2013 10:28 pm »

Quote from: Avron on 09/13/2013 10:04 pm

Quote from: Jim on 09/13/2013 09:58 pm
Quote from: meekGee on 09/13/2013 08:59 pm

So I'd guess, without being there, that people sat down like grown ups, weighted the risks and consequences of all options, and decided to continue at this pace.

Occam's razor would not lead to that conclusion. It would be more of a top down edict. Much like the frivolous assembly of F9-0.5 during the holiday season at the end of 2008.

If anyone other than Elon made the call to test again or launch.. I would find that realty difficult to belive

I agree. SpaceX is Elon's baby, and he cares more about this company than anything else. He makes the decisions. He would be willing to stretch out the launch until he thinks it has the best chance to succeed. We might be waiting weeks longer. After all, if it blows up, he is the face of it, unlike the other rocket companies. That is the downside of being high profile.

Nickolai · « **Reply #797 on:** 09/13/2013 10:31 pm »

Quote from: Jim on 09/13/2013 09:58 pm

Occam's razor would not lead to that conclusion. It would be more of a top down edict. Much like the frivolous assembly of F9-0.5 during the holiday season at the end of 2008.

Huh? F9-0.5? Can you elaborate or post some links?

Mader Levap · « **Reply #798 on:** 09/13/2013 10:37 pm »

Quote from: Nickolai on 09/13/2013 10:31 pm

Quote from: Jim on 09/13/2013 09:58 pm
Occam's razor would not lead to that conclusion. It would be more of a top down edict. Much like the frivolous assembly of F9-0.5 during the holiday season at the end of 2008.
Huh? F9-0.5? Can you elaborate or post some links?

His remark is sarcastic - he considers that assembly unneccessary show and distraction.

AS-503 · « **Reply #799 on:** 09/13/2013 10:45 pm »

Quote from: Mader Levap on 09/13/2013 10:37 pm

Quote from: Nickolai on 09/13/2013 10:31 pm
Quote from: Jim on 09/13/2013 09:58 pm
Occam's razor would not lead to that conclusion. It would be more of a top down edict. Much like the frivolous assembly of F9-0.5 during the holiday season at the end of 2008.
Huh? F9-0.5? Can you elaborate or post some links?
His remark is sarcastic - he considers that assembly unneccessary show and distraction.

But wasn't that more of an SA-500F type vehicle?
Which served a distinct function (not just promotional).