Author Topic: Kavoshgar Pishgam -- Aftab (Iranian Space Monkey)  (Read 29276 times)

Offline InvalidAttitude

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 119
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 3
Kavoshgar Pishgam 2012
« Reply #40 on: 01/29/2013 08:14 am »
Besides the propaganda - most likely for internal consumption, they also demonstrated that they can handle and operate a payload in a timely manner on a medium range ballistic missile. While not a big advancement, it is one more step in a ballistic missile program.

Absolutely right, its a covert WMD program to develop monkey guided ICBMs...

People questioning the scientific significant just should ask NASA why they conducted dozens of monkey launches, even after Glenn's flight.

Offline hossein

  • Member
  • Posts: 23
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 0
Kavoshgar Pishgam 2012
« Reply #41 on: 01/29/2013 11:25 am »
I didn't want to comment on this but since...:

1-Some commentators on this forum should show some respect.

2-The Iranians have stated a gazillion times that they have a plan to send manned missions into space. Now if you know of any other way to start a manned mission into space other than sending sounding rockets and monkeys please tell me. Maybe some would prefer that we start straight with humans. In that case they should volunteer for the task themselves because no one in Iran is that stupid to try a manned mission with unknown outcomes.

3-You don't send an untested bio-capsule to a orbital flight using an expensive rocket. First you test the capsule using a cheap variant of a Fateh-110 missile and once you are sure it works you go one step further further and go for the orbital test. Its that simple. It seems some people here can't understand that.

4-The missile flight has multiple purposes: a-Internal applause and consumption to boost the peoples morality (Oh wait a minute, I didn't know only the American public must have this privilege). b-Scientific purposes in line with stated plans to send a man into space (Yeah yeah I know uncle Sam doesn't want us to do this but, but we don't give a crap do we). c-A punch in the face to all the idiots who have been imposing sanctions on us and trying to stop us from entering the elite club of countries with space technology. Now laugh all you want (we laughed a lot when we downed that RQ-170) but you can't change anything.

5-The current Iranian missile program is consisted of three sections: a-Purely military. b-Putting satellites into space. c-Putting a man into space. The technologies used in these three fields greatly overlap and are definitely being shared by the teams working on these. Any other country would have done the same. But no the Iranians won't they are irrational (sarcasm).

6-The Iranian satellite carriers are probably dual purpose and will be used to developed ballistic missiles too. Well good for us. If you can have both technologies why shouldn't we. As long as you are threatening us this is the course we will take to protect ourselves and so would every other sovereign country constantly being threatened by international bullies.


(edited slightly to remove rude comment, still a bit rude, but that is an epic rant and probably required for balance of the silly comments aimed at Iran - Carl, Mod).
« Last Edit: 01/29/2013 09:37 pm by Chris Bergin »

Offline Galactic Penguin SST

Kavoshgar Pishgam 2012
« Reply #42 on: 01/29/2013 12:54 pm »
I think that the key for doing a manned spaceflight program is to look for film-return spysats - these are complex systems that are heavy and requires some skills for recovering the capsules. I would not even think of Iran doing manned orbital spaceflights until they gained descent and landing experience, and that is at least a few years away from now. Even sub-orbital hops are only slightly easier, so I don't see how can the Iranians do it in the next 8-10 years (especially when I don't see how the far more experienced Indians can do it either).

Chinese spaceflight is a cosmic riddle wrapped in a galactic mystery inside an orbital enigma... - (not) Winston Churchill

Offline hossein

  • Member
  • Posts: 23
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 0
Kavoshgar Pishgam 2012
« Reply #43 on: 01/29/2013 01:13 pm »
I think that the key for doing a manned spaceflight program is to look for film-return spysats - these are complex systems that are heavy and requires some skills for recovering the capsules. I would not even think of Iran doing manned orbital spaceflights until they gained descent and landing experience, and that is at least a few years away from now. Even sub-orbital hops are only slightly easier, so I don't see how can the Iranians do it in the next 8-10 years (especially when I don't see how the far more experienced Indians can do it either).



8-10 years is just a schedule. That's all. No big deal. We just have to wait and see. These schedules are set by all countries but there is no guarantee the goals will be reached in the set time. If Americans can delay the production of their F-35s for as many years as they wish until they reach the required results, I don't see any reason why the Iranians shouldn't do the same for there space program.

Offline QuantumG

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8804
  • Australia
  • Liked: 3803
  • Likes Given: 903
Kavoshgar Pishgam 2012
« Reply #44 on: 01/29/2013 08:38 pm »
There's no scientific purpose for sending humans into space anymore.

It's done for national prestige.

from entering the elite club of countries with space technology.

Exactly. Why does anyone want to join an "elite club"?

Prestige.

Human spaceflight is basically just LARPing now.

Offline BrightLight

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1343
  • Northern New Mexico
  • Liked: 243
  • Likes Given: 355
Kavoshgar Pishgam 2012
« Reply #45 on: 01/29/2013 08:53 pm »
While there are always political ramifications to technical developments and these are sometimes worthy of discussion, I would appreciate name calling, hate speech and miscellaneous finger waging to be minimized or removed.  This web site should be about the technical exchange of ideas and data.

Offline hossein

  • Member
  • Posts: 23
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 0
Kavoshgar Pishgam 2012
« Reply #46 on: 01/29/2013 09:12 pm »
There's no scientific purpose for sending humans into space anymore.

It's done for national prestige.

from entering the elite club of countries with space technology.

Exactly. Why does anyone want to join an "elite club"?

Prestige.



1-No scientific purpose for sending humans into space: Tell that to the guys running the International Space Station.

2-Look at it like this: Your country needs satellites for Environmental, agricultural, communicational, military and etc etc purposes. The problem is no one is going to make you one or send one for you into space. So you do it yourself. And once you do the PRESTIGE comes with it. But prestige is not the first goal. We only started working on satellites after the sanctions. No fool will put millions of dollars in a purely PRESTIGIOUS project.

Offline QuantumG

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8804
  • Australia
  • Liked: 3803
  • Likes Given: 903
Kavoshgar Pishgam 2012
« Reply #47 on: 01/29/2013 09:25 pm »
1-No scientific purpose for sending humans into space: Tell that to the guys running the International Space Station.

I do, regularly. The only reason the ISS exists at all is because the US was worried about Russian engineers being moved from the Soyuz/Mir program to the missile development programs. "International cooperation" became the catchphrase to prevent a backslide in demilitarization efforts.

Quote
2-Look at it like this: Your country needs satellites for Environmental, agricultural, communicational, military and etc etc purposes. The problem is no one is going to make you one or send one for you into space. So you do it yourself.

And I commend you for that. I wish the press would commend you for that too.

Quote
And once you do the PRESTIGE comes with it. But prestige is not the first goal. We only started working on satellites after the sanctions.

Yes, sorry if I implied that I thought prestige was the reason for wanting satellite development or space launch capability. That wasn't my intention.

Quote
No fool will put millions of dollars in a purely PRESTIGIOUS project.

At least three fools have. Russia, the US and China. Human spaceflight was nothing more than a prestige project to these national governments. In the case of the Russia/US space race it was a proxy for the prestige of having the most nuclear missiles, but it was still about prestige. The entire cold war was about winning the prestige battle. The only reason China has continued their human spaceflight program is the prestige they think it gives them - to be a part of that "elite club" you spoke about.
Human spaceflight is basically just LARPing now.

Offline hossein

  • Member
  • Posts: 23
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 0
Kavoshgar Pishgam 2012
« Reply #48 on: 01/29/2013 09:34 pm »
1-No scientific purpose for sending humans into space: Tell that to the guys running the International Space Station.

I do, regularly. The only reason the ISS exists at all is because the US was worried about Russian engineers being moved from the Soyuz/Mir program to the missile development programs. "International cooperation" became the catchphrase to prevent a backslide in demilitarization efforts.

Quote
2-Look at it like this: Your country needs satellites for Environmental, agricultural, communicational, military and etc etc purposes. The problem is no one is going to make you one or send one for you into space. So you do it yourself.

And I commend you for that. I wish the press would commend you for that too.

Quote
And once you do the PRESTIGE comes with it. But prestige is not the first goal. We only started working on satellites after the sanctions.

Yes, sorry if I implied that I thought prestige was the reason for wanting satellite development or space launch capability. That wasn't my intention.

Quote
No fool will put millions of dollars in a purely PRESTIGIOUS project.

At least three fools have. Russia, the US and China. Human spaceflight was nothing more than a prestige project to these national governments. In the case of the Russia/US space race it was a proxy for the prestige of having the most nuclear missiles, but it was still about prestige. The entire cold war was about winning the prestige battle. The only reason China has continued their human spaceflight program is the prestige they think it gives them - to be a part of that "elite club" you spoke about.

I totally agree with most of what you say  :)

Online Chris Bergin

Kavoshgar Pishgam 2012
« Reply #49 on: 01/29/2013 09:35 pm »
Ok, everyone calm down.

I've only just seen this latest batch of posts (sorry QG - that was a slow response and my fault), and while it's fine to question governments etc, it's not allowable by way of site rules to make it personal.

Thread will be trimmed and I will warn all members to keep it on the subject of this site's content field, vehicles etc.

Offline hossein

  • Member
  • Posts: 23
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 0
Kavoshgar Pishgam 2012
« Reply #50 on: 01/30/2013 01:36 pm »
A few image grabs from the bio-capsule on board cameras...
« Last Edit: 01/30/2013 06:25 pm by Satori »

Offline hossein

  • Member
  • Posts: 23
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 0
Kavoshgar Pishgam 2012
« Reply #51 on: 01/30/2013 06:17 pm »
Ok some new pics and info from a press conference (2 hours ago):

The return vehicle:
(imageA)

and the happy monkey during a press conference. See, the monkey is happy to be back in Iran. I saw a lot of people commenting that the monkey was happy to have escaped Iran  ;D :

(imageB)

http://isna.ir/fa/news/91111106971/%D9%87%D8%B2%DB%8C%D9%86%D9%87-%D8%B3%D9%81%D8%B1-%D9%85%DB%8C%D9%85%D9%88%D9%86-%D9%BE%DB%8C%D8%B4%DA%AF%D8%A7%D9%85-%D8%A8%D9%87-%D9%81%D8%B6%D8%A7-%D9%BE%D8%B1%D8%AA%D8%A7%D8%A8-%D9%85%D8%A7%D9%87%D9%88%D8%A7%D8%B1%D9%87 The main point:
1-The overall cost of sending the monkey to space was less than 1 million US dollars.

http://isna.ir/fa/news/91111106975/-%D8%A2%D9%81%D8%AA%D8%A7%D8%A8-%D9%85%DB%8C%D9%85%D9%88%D9%86-%D9%81%D8%B6%D8%A7%D9%86%D9%88%D8%B1%D8%AF%D8%A7%DB%8C%D8%B1%D8%A7%D9%86%DB%8C-%D9%85%D9%87%D9%85%D8%A7%D9%86-%D9%86%D8%B4%D8%B3%D8%AA-%D8%AE%D8%A8%D8%B1%DB%8C Main points:
1-They plan to send a human to "sub-orbit" within 5-6 years.
2-After that they have a 5 year plan for a human "orbital" mission.
3-The next step is to send a Kavoshgar to a height of 175Km with a payload of 500kg (sub-orbital).

Rumor has it that they are going to send Qaem and fajr sattelites into orbit next week.
« Last Edit: 02/02/2013 09:30 am by input~2 »

Offline Nahavandi

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 127
  • Liked: 1
  • Likes Given: 0
Kavoshgar Pishgam 2012
« Reply #52 on: 02/01/2013 12:07 am »
Extended onboard footage (including parachute deployment):


Online jcm

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3061
  • Jonathan McDowell
  • Somerville, Massachusetts, USA
    • Jonathan's Space Report
  • Liked: 604
  • Likes Given: 445
Kavoshgar Pishgam 2012
« Reply #53 on: 02/01/2013 09:41 pm »
A couple of journalists have asked me about this story

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iran/9842580/Is-Irans-space-monkey-a-fake.html

I don't take it very seriously - probably just lazy PR people using the wrong
stock footage. I'm sure the rocketing rhesus did get its ride. But it is just
possible it did a Bonnie and expired before it could make its press conference.
-----------------------------

Jonathan McDowell
http://planet4589.org

Offline hossein

  • Member
  • Posts: 23
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 0
Kavoshgar Pishgam 2012
« Reply #54 on: 02/01/2013 10:40 pm »
A couple of journalists have asked me about this story

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iran/9842580/Is-Irans-space-monkey-a-fake.html

I don't take it very seriously - probably just lazy PR people using the wrong
stock footage. I'm sure the rocketing rhesus did get its ride. But it is just
possible it did a Bonnie and expired before it could make its press conference.

I was going to comment on that. I'm writing a complete answer from multiple forums. Supplementary links can be provided if needed.

Apparently, three monkeys were launched into space:
1-March 12 2011, Kavoshgar 4, launched with a puppet monkey. This was for the purpose of testing the modules.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5h3oDYERFoUBzM2sY4qGIzBJ8JEcA?docId=CNG.9c024f6975002ea374ae27d6ace48f81.391
Here is an image from that launch:
(image1)
Other images can be found at the Iranian Space Agency website:
http://www.ari.ac.ir/index.php/component/content/article/75-1390-02-21-04-01-51/197--4.html

2-A live monkey was sent using Kavoshgar 5 between August 23 to September 22. This was a failure. The poor monkey died. The monkey used was the one with the large mole on its face:
(image2)
(image4)


Also see:
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5gJKz6xGAnEWwiGPlslaWxOlmG89Q?docId=CNG.983e76b03275e9c03f15821559210ce1.41
(The image used in the AFP article is incorrect)

3-The most recent launch using the monkey without the mole:


There are a number of marks which distinguish the 2nd and 3rd monkeys:
2nd: Has mole, wears white jacket, has black seatbelt, there is a white paper beside its head (while strapped in the seat) which is oriented as landscape.

3rd: No mole, wears black jacket, has half-black half-white seatbelt, there is a white paper beside its head (while strapped in the seat) which is oriented as portrait.

Compare Images below and the movies which have already been posted:

(image5)
(image6)
(image7)
(image8)
(image9)

And below are the missiles used for the three launches. They have visible differences (hint: look on the left of the blue Iranian Space Agency logo's on the missile)

1-(image10)

2-(image11)

3-(image12)

Unfortunately the Iranian News Agencies made a fool of themselves (and the Space Agency) by publishing the images from all launches at the same time without making a distinction between them  ??? ??? ??? :'(

I hope this helped.
« Last Edit: 02/02/2013 09:21 am by input~2 »

Online jcm

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3061
  • Jonathan McDowell
  • Somerville, Massachusetts, USA
    • Jonathan's Space Report
  • Liked: 604
  • Likes Given: 445
Kavoshgar Pishgam 2012
« Reply #55 on: 02/02/2013 12:35 am »
hossein, thank you - a convincing analysis, and pretty much what I expected.
-----------------------------

Jonathan McDowell
http://planet4589.org


Offline Lewis007

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1395
  • the Netherlands
  • Liked: 352
  • Likes Given: 100
Kavoshgar Pishgam 2012
« Reply #57 on: 02/02/2013 07:23 am »
Some of the pictures provided this week even showed the date they were taken (September 7, 2012); i.e. the failed launch...

Offline Akira

  • Member
  • Posts: 2
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 0
Kavoshgar Pishgam 2012
« Reply #58 on: 02/02/2013 07:37 am »
Congratulations to the people of the Islamic Republic of Iran.

Offline Steven Pietrobon

  • Member
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 19070
  • Adelaide, Australia
    • Steven Pietrobon's Space Archive
  • Liked: 6965
  • Likes Given: 956
Kavoshgar Pishgam 2012
« Reply #59 on: 02/02/2013 08:41 am »
Some of the pictures provided this week even showed the date they were taken (September 7, 2012); i.e. the failed launch...

Yes, the photos show 7 September 2012, but the failed Kavoshgar-5 was reported to be on 7 September 2011. There was a failed flight in September 2012 (which exploded on the pad), but the launch site was for Safir-1B and not for Kavoshgar which uses a different site (this site only has four Iranian flags around it, instead of four towers). Maybe the photographer's camera had the wrong year programmed into it.
« Last Edit: 02/02/2013 08:42 am by Steven Pietrobon »
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

Tags: