Author Topic: Kavoshgar Pishgam -- Aftab (Iranian Space Monkey)  (Read 29283 times)

Offline Galactic Penguin SST

OK they are trying the monkey flight again in early February: http://ria.ru/science/20130115/918207241.html

Actually I wonder if the second "unannounced launch failure" reported last year in 3Q 2012 is related to sub-orbital launches, instead of an orbital launch as Janes claimed? Because such a flight was announced in August 2012, then got "postponed"......  ::)
Chinese spaceflight is a cosmic riddle wrapped in a galactic mystery inside an orbital enigma... - (not) Winston Churchill

Offline JazzFan

  • Full Member
  • **
  • Posts: 210
  • Florida
  • Liked: 30
  • Likes Given: 17
Re: Iranian Space
« Reply #1 on: 01/17/2013 12:26 am »
Hope this is not a failure like in May and September of 2012.  It would be very depressing to see hazmat teams picking up charred monkey parts from the satellite photos.

Offline JimO

  • Veteran
  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1911
  • Texas, USA
  • Liked: 340
  • Likes Given: 96
Kavoshgar Pishgam -- Aftab (Iranian Space Monkey)
« Reply #2 on: 01/17/2013 03:36 am »
I remain cautiously 'out of step' on these stories of an earlier monkey flight failure, as observers here remember. From where I'm investigating, it looks to me like a French reporter's garble of an ambiguous Iranian press interview, that was misinterpreted and then widely re-reported from anti-regime folks inside and outside the country. I've been assured by people who claim to have received secret briefings from US intelligence agencies that the story is real -- I just have not seen such evidence.

Offline K210

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 385
  • Liked: 91
  • Likes Given: 12
Kavoshgar Pishgam 2012
« Reply #3 on: 01/25/2013 07:58 am »
regarding the monkey to be launched next month does anybody know if the flight is orbital or sub-orbital?

Online William Graham

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4218
  • Liked: 232
  • Likes Given: 94
Kavoshgar Pishgam 2012
« Reply #4 on: 01/25/2013 10:13 am »
regarding the monkey to be launched next month does anybody know if the flight is orbital or sub-orbital?

Suborbital, I believe.

Offline Satori

  • Moderator
  • Global Moderator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12848
  • Braga - Portugal
    • Em Órbita
  • Liked: 578
  • Likes Given: 368
Kavoshgar Pishgam 2012
« Reply #5 on: 01/28/2013 11:04 am »
« Last Edit: 01/28/2013 11:07 am by Satori »

Offline Satori

  • Moderator
  • Global Moderator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12848
  • Braga - Portugal
    • Em Órbita
  • Liked: 578
  • Likes Given: 368
Kavoshgar Pishgam 2012
« Reply #6 on: 01/28/2013 11:16 am »
Looks like the capsule returned intact, but there are no informations about the fate of the monkey.

Offline Satori

  • Moderator
  • Global Moderator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12848
  • Braga - Portugal
    • Em Órbita
  • Liked: 578
  • Likes Given: 368
Kavoshgar Pishgam 2012
« Reply #7 on: 01/28/2013 11:19 am »

Offline Satori

  • Moderator
  • Global Moderator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12848
  • Braga - Portugal
    • Em Órbita
  • Liked: 578
  • Likes Given: 368
Kavoshgar Pishgam 2012
« Reply #8 on: 01/28/2013 11:22 am »
Looks like the capsule returned intact, but there are no informations about the fate of the monkey.

Last information says the monkey is alive after the safe return to Earth.

Offline jcm

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3062
  • Jonathan McDowell
  • Somerville, Massachusetts, USA
    • Jonathan's Space Report
  • Liked: 604
  • Likes Given: 447
Kavoshgar Pishgam 2012
« Reply #9 on: 01/28/2013 11:35 am »
Confusion about the launch date: http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2013/01/28/285996/iran-sends-living-creature-into-space/ says "launched on Tuesday on the auspicious birthday anniversary of Prophet Mohammad" - Tuesday presumably means Jan 21, but the birthday was celebrated Jan 24 or Jan 25 as far as I can tell from some quick googling. I assume Jan 21 is the actual date but I worry a bit because news service translation from Persian has been iffy in the past
-----------------------------

Jonathan McDowell
http://planet4589.org

Offline Satori

  • Moderator
  • Global Moderator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12848
  • Braga - Portugal
    • Em Órbita
  • Liked: 578
  • Likes Given: 368
Kavoshgar Pishgam 2012
« Reply #10 on: 01/28/2013 11:44 am »
Yes, I also find that strange. Or maybe the news was supposed to be issued tomorrow and the launch took place in the last hours.

Offline jcm

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3062
  • Jonathan McDowell
  • Somerville, Massachusetts, USA
    • Jonathan's Space Report
  • Liked: 604
  • Likes Given: 447
Kavoshgar Pishgam 2012
« Reply #11 on: 01/28/2013 12:01 pm »
Further googling suggests Shia celebrate Muhammad on 17th Rabi al Awwal and http://www.farsnews.com/newstext.php?nn=13911109000760
the Persian Fars news agency page (+google trans) seems to say" on the auspicious day of the birth of Islam's Prophet Basadt Dear Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) and Imam Jafar Sadiq (AS) and on the eve of the Festival of Mubarak," - the Sadiq date is also 17th Rabi al Awwal, I can't find anything that makes sense for the Mubarak thing. 1 Rabi Awwal was 12 Jan 2013 it seems, so 17 should be today, Mon Jan 28, although the date
on the arabic version of farsnews (which doesn't seem to have the story yet) is 16 Rabi... maybe a sunset-change-of-date thing? As you can tell I am confused...
« Last Edit: 01/28/2013 12:10 pm by jcm »
-----------------------------

Jonathan McDowell
http://planet4589.org

Offline Satori

  • Moderator
  • Global Moderator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12848
  • Braga - Portugal
    • Em Órbita
  • Liked: 578
  • Likes Given: 368
Kavoshgar Pishgam 2012
« Reply #12 on: 01/28/2013 12:29 pm »
Apparently, this is the little guy that was sent into space. Picture from http://www.iranmilitaryforum.net/space-technology-and-news/
« Last Edit: 01/28/2013 12:36 pm by Satori »

Offline Satori

  • Moderator
  • Global Moderator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12848
  • Braga - Portugal
    • Em Órbita
  • Liked: 578
  • Likes Given: 368
Kavoshgar Pishgam 2012
« Reply #13 on: 01/28/2013 12:31 pm »
Further googling suggests Shia celebrate Muhammad on 17th Rabi al Awwal and http://www.farsnews.com/newstext.php?nn=13911109000760
the Persian Fars news agency page (+google trans) seems to say" on the auspicious day of the birth of Islam's Prophet Basadt Dear Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) and Imam Jafar Sadiq (AS) and on the eve of the Festival of Mubarak," - the Sadiq date is also 17th Rabi al Awwal, I can't find anything that makes sense for the Mubarak thing. 1 Rabi Awwal was 12 Jan 2013 it seems, so 17 should be today, Mon Jan 28, although the date
on the arabic version of farsnews (which doesn't seem to have the story yet) is 16 Rabi... maybe a sunset-change-of-date thing? As you can tell I am confused...

Jonathan, the Press TV news is now corrected and says that the launch was Monday.

Offline Satori

  • Moderator
  • Global Moderator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12848
  • Braga - Portugal
    • Em Órbita
  • Liked: 578
  • Likes Given: 368
Kavoshgar Pishgam 2012
« Reply #14 on: 01/28/2013 12:47 pm »

Offline jcm

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3062
  • Jonathan McDowell
  • Somerville, Massachusetts, USA
    • Jonathan's Space Report
  • Liked: 604
  • Likes Given: 447
Kavoshgar Pishgam 2012
« Reply #15 on: 01/28/2013 12:50 pm »
Apparently, this is the little guy that was sent into space. Picture from http://www.iranmilitaryforum.net/space-technology-and-news/

so probably /macaca mulatta/ (rhesus monkey) ?
-----------------------------

Jonathan McDowell
http://planet4589.org

Offline Ben the Space Brit

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7157
  • A spaceflight fan
  • London, UK
  • Liked: 669
  • Likes Given: 786
Kavoshgar Pishgam 2012
« Reply #16 on: 01/28/2013 01:06 pm »
That thing looks like an up-scaled Scud! I'll be surprised if it has anything resembling throttle control so the ride towards MECO must have been... rough.

Anyway; I'm thinking about trajectory.  Iran doesn't have an East Coast.  Because of this, launching eastwards would overfly Pakistan and India, two neighbours whose cultural dislike of Shia Muslims and atomic strike capability would make such an endeavour foolhardy to say the least.  So, I'm thinking a polar or near-polar trajectory.  Would that have necessitated a recovery of the capsule from the Persian Gulf or Arabian Sea?

[edit]
Of course, Shepherd and Grissom only ducked above the atmosphere for a few minutes and that was technically a 'spaceflight'.  I might be wrong to assume an orbital flight at all - it could have easily been a fifteen-minute sub-orbital hop into the Arabian Sea.
« Last Edit: 01/28/2013 01:12 pm by Ben the Space Brit »
"Oops! I left the silly thing in reverse!" - Duck Dodgers

~*~*~*~

The Space Shuttle Program - 1981-2011

The time for words has passed; The time has come to put up or shut up!
DON'T PROPAGANDISE, FLY!!!

Offline jcm

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3062
  • Jonathan McDowell
  • Somerville, Massachusetts, USA
    • Jonathan's Space Report
  • Liked: 604
  • Likes Given: 447
Kavoshgar Pishgam 2012
« Reply #17 on: 01/28/2013 01:14 pm »
That thing looks like an up-scaled Scud! I'll be surprised if it has anything resembling throttle control so the ride towards MECO must have been... rough.

Anyway; I'm thinking about trajectory.  Iran doens't have an East Coast.  Because of this, launching eastwards would overfly Pakistan and India, two neighbours whose cultural dislike of Shia Muslims and atomic strike capability would make such an endeavour foolhardy to say the least.  So, I'm thinking a polar or near-polar trajectory.  Would that have necessitated a recovery of the capsule from the Persian Gulf or Arabian Sea?


up-scaled? This is much smaller than a Scud. More like a Black Brant.
And this was a short range flight, entirely within Iran I would assume.

Their orbital satellite launches do go eastwards but are probably already in orbit by the time they go over neighbours.

(and yes, per your edit, this was suborbital only)
« Last Edit: 01/28/2013 01:14 pm by jcm »
-----------------------------

Jonathan McDowell
http://planet4589.org

Offline Skyrocket

  • Extreme Veteran
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2177
  • Frankfurt am Main, Germany
  • Liked: 356
  • Likes Given: 96
Kavoshgar Pishgam 2012
« Reply #18 on: 01/28/2013 01:39 pm »
up-scaled? This is much smaller than a Scud. More like a Black Brant.
And this was a short range flight, entirely within Iran I would assume.

Their orbital satellite launches do go eastwards but are probably already in orbit by the time they go over neighbours.

(and yes, per your edit, this was suborbital only)

The rocket looks like the Kavoshgar-4 rocket launched in 2011, which was derived from the Zelzal. Kavoshgar-5 was reportedly also similar.

Offline AS-503

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 433
  • Orion Fab Team
  • Colorado USA
  • Liked: 164
  • Likes Given: 117
Kavoshgar Pishgam 2012
« Reply #19 on: 01/28/2013 02:38 pm »
Looks like Iran has a primate astronaut.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-21230691

Anyone here know the LV well enough to predict what kind of g forces they put on that little rascal?

« Last Edit: 01/28/2013 02:47 pm by AS-503 »

Offline Nahavandi

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 127
  • Liked: 1
  • Likes Given: 0
Kavoshgar Pishgam 2012
« Reply #20 on: 01/28/2013 04:05 pm »
Does this launch have any scientific significance at all?

Offline Satori

  • Moderator
  • Global Moderator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12848
  • Braga - Portugal
    • Em Órbita
  • Liked: 578
  • Likes Given: 368
Kavoshgar Pishgam 2012
« Reply #21 on: 01/28/2013 04:45 pm »

Offline Satori

  • Moderator
  • Global Moderator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12848
  • Braga - Portugal
    • Em Órbita
  • Liked: 578
  • Likes Given: 368
Kavoshgar Pishgam 2012
« Reply #22 on: 01/28/2013 04:54 pm »

Offline Nahavandi

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 127
  • Liked: 1
  • Likes Given: 0
Kavoshgar Pishgam 2012
« Reply #23 on: 01/28/2013 05:36 pm »

Offline Nahavandi

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 127
  • Liked: 1
  • Likes Given: 0
Kavoshgar Pishgam 2012
« Reply #24 on: 01/28/2013 05:42 pm »
Iranian state television has showed footage of the capsule being retrieved.

Offline Ben the Space Brit

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7157
  • A spaceflight fan
  • London, UK
  • Liked: 669
  • Likes Given: 786
Kavoshgar Pishgam 2012
« Reply #25 on: 01/28/2013 05:50 pm »
Does this launch have any scientific significance at all?

About the same as Sputnik-2 - they can put a life-form above the atmosphere without it turning into a former life-form.  Really, this is just a propaganda 'spectacular'; launching an orbital life-supported return capsule is another level altogether.
"Oops! I left the silly thing in reverse!" - Duck Dodgers

~*~*~*~

The Space Shuttle Program - 1981-2011

The time for words has passed; The time has come to put up or shut up!
DON'T PROPAGANDISE, FLY!!!

Offline mr. mark

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1996
  • Liked: 171
  • Likes Given: 0
Kavoshgar Pishgam 2012
« Reply #26 on: 01/28/2013 05:56 pm »
Most likely flight was suborbital. 75 miles  altitude was reported.

Offline Skyrocket

  • Extreme Veteran
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2177
  • Frankfurt am Main, Germany
  • Liked: 356
  • Likes Given: 96
Kavoshgar Pishgam 2012
« Reply #27 on: 01/28/2013 06:13 pm »
Most likely flight was suborbital. 75 miles  altitude was reported.

It was absolutely sure suborbital, not just "most likely"

Offline mr. mark

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1996
  • Liked: 171
  • Likes Given: 0
Kavoshgar Pishgam 2012
« Reply #28 on: 01/28/2013 06:16 pm »
Well, in the race for space they are now just a notch over Copenhagen Suborbitals. ::) At least the Monkey was treated well during the flight. Something I can not say for Laika aboard Sputnik 2.
« Last Edit: 01/28/2013 06:20 pm by mr. mark »

Offline Bob Shaw

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1114
  • Liked: 462
  • Likes Given: 405
Kavoshgar Pishgam 2012
« Reply #29 on: 01/28/2013 06:23 pm »
Are they selling tickets? And why did they send Richard Branson's Mini-Me up first... ...hmmm?

Offline Nahavandi

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 127
  • Liked: 1
  • Likes Given: 0
Kavoshgar Pishgam 2012
« Reply #30 on: 01/28/2013 07:29 pm »

Offline BrightLight

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1343
  • Northern New Mexico
  • Liked: 243
  • Likes Given: 355
Kavoshgar Pishgam 2012
« Reply #31 on: 01/28/2013 07:42 pm »
Besides the propaganda - most likely for internal consumption, they also demonstrated that they can handle and operate a payload in a timely manner on a medium range ballistic missile. While not a big advancement, it is one more step in a ballistic missile program.

Offline blister

Kavoshgar Pishgam 2012
« Reply #32 on: 01/28/2013 09:28 pm »

Offline QuantumG

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8804
  • Australia
  • Liked: 3803
  • Likes Given: 903
Kavoshgar Pishgam 2012
« Reply #33 on: 01/28/2013 11:00 pm »
I really wish there was a way to make audible the apathy of the world to redoing space stunts from the 60s. All the Iranians will hear from the press coverage is the exposure they're getting. But how to do it? No-one is going to write "THIS DOESN'T MATTER" on the front page of the London Times. The media really want us to care about Iranians strapping an animal into a missile.

Human spaceflight is basically just LARPing now.

Offline sanman

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4574
  • Liked: 695
  • Likes Given: 8
Kavoshgar Pishgam 2012
« Reply #34 on: 01/28/2013 11:20 pm »
The Iranians have said they plan to attempt a manned flight in the next 5-8 years. I don't see how they're going to do that with this particular rocket. They'd better have something a lot better in the pipeline for that.

Offline blister

Kavoshgar Pishgam 2012
« Reply #35 on: 01/29/2013 12:46 am »
The Iranians have said they plan to attempt a manned flight in the next 5-8 years. I don't see how they're going to do that with this particular rocket. They'd better have something a lot better in the pipeline for that.
Fromhttp://japanese.irib.ir/news/culture-society/item/34636
The traffic plan of a manned space capsule will be carried out in Iran in less than four years from now on.

Moreover, a launch to the orbit around the earth of the artificial satellite which carries man will be carried out within ten years from now on.

The fujelly director general of the Iran space aeronautics organization said, "After launching the live monky with an artificial satellite rocket, man is seen off in the space in the following stage."

He is said that and a manned space capsule traffic plan is the capsule which carries man being launched to a specific altitude, and returning to the earth, and this is further carried out among less than 30 minutes."
 

Offline jcm

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3062
  • Jonathan McDowell
  • Somerville, Massachusetts, USA
    • Jonathan's Space Report
  • Liked: 604
  • Likes Given: 447
Kavoshgar Pishgam 2012
« Reply #36 on: 01/29/2013 01:51 am »
I really wish there was a way to make audible the apathy of the world to redoing space stunts from the 60s. All the Iranians will hear from the press coverage is the exposure they're getting. But how to do it? No-one is going to write "THIS DOESN'T MATTER" on the front page of the London Times. The media really want us to care about Iranians strapping an animal into a missile.



Well, I managed to pretty much say that in the New York Times:
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/29/world/middleeast/iran-says-it-sent-monkey-into-space.html
-----------------------------

Jonathan McDowell
http://planet4589.org

Offline a_langwich

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 735
  • Liked: 211
  • Likes Given: 48
Kavoshgar Pishgam 2012
« Reply #37 on: 01/29/2013 03:40 am »
I really wish there was a way to make audible the apathy of the world to redoing space stunts from the 60s. All the Iranians will hear from the press coverage is the exposure they're getting. But how to do it? No-one is going to write "THIS DOESN'T MATTER" on the front page of the London Times. The media really want us to care about Iranians strapping an animal into a missile.


Here's what you are missing:  they aren't doing it for your applause.  We didn't launch monkeys decades ago for their applause.  To quote JFK, "If this...[history]...teaches us anything, it is that man, in his quest for knowledge and progress, is determined and cannot be deterred."  "We choose to...[do these things]...not because they are easy, but because they are hard, because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills, because that challenge is one that we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one which we intend to win, and the others, too."

How many programmers have written little "hello world" apps?  How many musicians have played through the various classical works for their instrument?  The point is, anyone learning a skill or tackling an enormous task has to start with basics, and slowly add capabilities.  It always starts out crudely.  It may not be newsworthy to you, but it's a triumph for their efforts.

And the point, to Iranians, is that whoever else may have done this in the past, WE can do this, and not just this but there's hope and expectation for better things in the future.

There's a tendency, both in the media and on this forum, to view North Korean and Iranian space attempts purely from a military perspective.  (As was done with coverage of the Soviet Union.)  The military aspects are certainly important, but it's dehumanizing to ignore that they might get a kick out of pushing out into space, exploring, accomplishing an enormously difficult task, and putting the lie to some of the backward stereotypes.

And who knows?  Just as Americans are happy to use Russian rocket engines and first stages and ISS segments now, perhaps some day we'll all be happy to have available some expertise the Iranians and/or North Koreans have developed.  I'm cheering, in the hopes that those human achievements, even in the midst of a government whose agenda I do not like, will someday be freed to dominate the military goals.  Just as von Braun's rocketry was freed from the Nazi war machine, and Korolev's rocketry was freed from the Soviet system.


Offline QuantumG

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8804
  • Australia
  • Liked: 3803
  • Likes Given: 903
Kavoshgar Pishgam 2012
« Reply #38 on: 01/29/2013 04:37 am »
Here's what you are missing:  they aren't doing it for your applause.  We didn't launch monkeys decades ago for their applause.

They're doing it now for the same reason that the Russians did it with dogs..

It's not some noble goal of knowledge, challenge or exploration that is getting them their funding, it's the idea that achievements like this (and the human flights that will no doubt follow) somehow show the world how progressive and powerful Iran is.

In short, they are doing it for our applause. They are trying to impress us and we're not impressed. I just wish there was a way to convey that.
Human spaceflight is basically just LARPing now.

Offline sanman

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4574
  • Liked: 695
  • Likes Given: 8
Kavoshgar Pishgam 2012
« Reply #39 on: 01/29/2013 06:15 am »
Well, you can't bottle EQ, man. If that were possible, then someone could load up a warhead with it, and bombard the planet with it.  :P

Offline InvalidAttitude

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 119
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 3
Kavoshgar Pishgam 2012
« Reply #40 on: 01/29/2013 08:14 am »
Besides the propaganda - most likely for internal consumption, they also demonstrated that they can handle and operate a payload in a timely manner on a medium range ballistic missile. While not a big advancement, it is one more step in a ballistic missile program.

Absolutely right, its a covert WMD program to develop monkey guided ICBMs...

People questioning the scientific significant just should ask NASA why they conducted dozens of monkey launches, even after Glenn's flight.

Offline hossein

  • Member
  • Posts: 23
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 0
Kavoshgar Pishgam 2012
« Reply #41 on: 01/29/2013 11:25 am »
I didn't want to comment on this but since...:

1-Some commentators on this forum should show some respect.

2-The Iranians have stated a gazillion times that they have a plan to send manned missions into space. Now if you know of any other way to start a manned mission into space other than sending sounding rockets and monkeys please tell me. Maybe some would prefer that we start straight with humans. In that case they should volunteer for the task themselves because no one in Iran is that stupid to try a manned mission with unknown outcomes.

3-You don't send an untested bio-capsule to a orbital flight using an expensive rocket. First you test the capsule using a cheap variant of a Fateh-110 missile and once you are sure it works you go one step further further and go for the orbital test. Its that simple. It seems some people here can't understand that.

4-The missile flight has multiple purposes: a-Internal applause and consumption to boost the peoples morality (Oh wait a minute, I didn't know only the American public must have this privilege). b-Scientific purposes in line with stated plans to send a man into space (Yeah yeah I know uncle Sam doesn't want us to do this but, but we don't give a crap do we). c-A punch in the face to all the idiots who have been imposing sanctions on us and trying to stop us from entering the elite club of countries with space technology. Now laugh all you want (we laughed a lot when we downed that RQ-170) but you can't change anything.

5-The current Iranian missile program is consisted of three sections: a-Purely military. b-Putting satellites into space. c-Putting a man into space. The technologies used in these three fields greatly overlap and are definitely being shared by the teams working on these. Any other country would have done the same. But no the Iranians won't they are irrational (sarcasm).

6-The Iranian satellite carriers are probably dual purpose and will be used to developed ballistic missiles too. Well good for us. If you can have both technologies why shouldn't we. As long as you are threatening us this is the course we will take to protect ourselves and so would every other sovereign country constantly being threatened by international bullies.


(edited slightly to remove rude comment, still a bit rude, but that is an epic rant and probably required for balance of the silly comments aimed at Iran - Carl, Mod).
« Last Edit: 01/29/2013 09:37 pm by Chris Bergin »

Offline Galactic Penguin SST

Kavoshgar Pishgam 2012
« Reply #42 on: 01/29/2013 12:54 pm »
I think that the key for doing a manned spaceflight program is to look for film-return spysats - these are complex systems that are heavy and requires some skills for recovering the capsules. I would not even think of Iran doing manned orbital spaceflights until they gained descent and landing experience, and that is at least a few years away from now. Even sub-orbital hops are only slightly easier, so I don't see how can the Iranians do it in the next 8-10 years (especially when I don't see how the far more experienced Indians can do it either).

Chinese spaceflight is a cosmic riddle wrapped in a galactic mystery inside an orbital enigma... - (not) Winston Churchill

Offline hossein

  • Member
  • Posts: 23
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 0
Kavoshgar Pishgam 2012
« Reply #43 on: 01/29/2013 01:13 pm »
I think that the key for doing a manned spaceflight program is to look for film-return spysats - these are complex systems that are heavy and requires some skills for recovering the capsules. I would not even think of Iran doing manned orbital spaceflights until they gained descent and landing experience, and that is at least a few years away from now. Even sub-orbital hops are only slightly easier, so I don't see how can the Iranians do it in the next 8-10 years (especially when I don't see how the far more experienced Indians can do it either).



8-10 years is just a schedule. That's all. No big deal. We just have to wait and see. These schedules are set by all countries but there is no guarantee the goals will be reached in the set time. If Americans can delay the production of their F-35s for as many years as they wish until they reach the required results, I don't see any reason why the Iranians shouldn't do the same for there space program.

Offline QuantumG

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8804
  • Australia
  • Liked: 3803
  • Likes Given: 903
Kavoshgar Pishgam 2012
« Reply #44 on: 01/29/2013 08:38 pm »
There's no scientific purpose for sending humans into space anymore.

It's done for national prestige.

from entering the elite club of countries with space technology.

Exactly. Why does anyone want to join an "elite club"?

Prestige.

Human spaceflight is basically just LARPing now.

Offline BrightLight

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1343
  • Northern New Mexico
  • Liked: 243
  • Likes Given: 355
Kavoshgar Pishgam 2012
« Reply #45 on: 01/29/2013 08:53 pm »
While there are always political ramifications to technical developments and these are sometimes worthy of discussion, I would appreciate name calling, hate speech and miscellaneous finger waging to be minimized or removed.  This web site should be about the technical exchange of ideas and data.

Offline hossein

  • Member
  • Posts: 23
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 0
Kavoshgar Pishgam 2012
« Reply #46 on: 01/29/2013 09:12 pm »
There's no scientific purpose for sending humans into space anymore.

It's done for national prestige.

from entering the elite club of countries with space technology.

Exactly. Why does anyone want to join an "elite club"?

Prestige.



1-No scientific purpose for sending humans into space: Tell that to the guys running the International Space Station.

2-Look at it like this: Your country needs satellites for Environmental, agricultural, communicational, military and etc etc purposes. The problem is no one is going to make you one or send one for you into space. So you do it yourself. And once you do the PRESTIGE comes with it. But prestige is not the first goal. We only started working on satellites after the sanctions. No fool will put millions of dollars in a purely PRESTIGIOUS project.

Offline QuantumG

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8804
  • Australia
  • Liked: 3803
  • Likes Given: 903
Kavoshgar Pishgam 2012
« Reply #47 on: 01/29/2013 09:25 pm »
1-No scientific purpose for sending humans into space: Tell that to the guys running the International Space Station.

I do, regularly. The only reason the ISS exists at all is because the US was worried about Russian engineers being moved from the Soyuz/Mir program to the missile development programs. "International cooperation" became the catchphrase to prevent a backslide in demilitarization efforts.

Quote
2-Look at it like this: Your country needs satellites for Environmental, agricultural, communicational, military and etc etc purposes. The problem is no one is going to make you one or send one for you into space. So you do it yourself.

And I commend you for that. I wish the press would commend you for that too.

Quote
And once you do the PRESTIGE comes with it. But prestige is not the first goal. We only started working on satellites after the sanctions.

Yes, sorry if I implied that I thought prestige was the reason for wanting satellite development or space launch capability. That wasn't my intention.

Quote
No fool will put millions of dollars in a purely PRESTIGIOUS project.

At least three fools have. Russia, the US and China. Human spaceflight was nothing more than a prestige project to these national governments. In the case of the Russia/US space race it was a proxy for the prestige of having the most nuclear missiles, but it was still about prestige. The entire cold war was about winning the prestige battle. The only reason China has continued their human spaceflight program is the prestige they think it gives them - to be a part of that "elite club" you spoke about.
Human spaceflight is basically just LARPing now.

Offline hossein

  • Member
  • Posts: 23
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 0
Kavoshgar Pishgam 2012
« Reply #48 on: 01/29/2013 09:34 pm »
1-No scientific purpose for sending humans into space: Tell that to the guys running the International Space Station.

I do, regularly. The only reason the ISS exists at all is because the US was worried about Russian engineers being moved from the Soyuz/Mir program to the missile development programs. "International cooperation" became the catchphrase to prevent a backslide in demilitarization efforts.

Quote
2-Look at it like this: Your country needs satellites for Environmental, agricultural, communicational, military and etc etc purposes. The problem is no one is going to make you one or send one for you into space. So you do it yourself.

And I commend you for that. I wish the press would commend you for that too.

Quote
And once you do the PRESTIGE comes with it. But prestige is not the first goal. We only started working on satellites after the sanctions.

Yes, sorry if I implied that I thought prestige was the reason for wanting satellite development or space launch capability. That wasn't my intention.

Quote
No fool will put millions of dollars in a purely PRESTIGIOUS project.

At least three fools have. Russia, the US and China. Human spaceflight was nothing more than a prestige project to these national governments. In the case of the Russia/US space race it was a proxy for the prestige of having the most nuclear missiles, but it was still about prestige. The entire cold war was about winning the prestige battle. The only reason China has continued their human spaceflight program is the prestige they think it gives them - to be a part of that "elite club" you spoke about.

I totally agree with most of what you say  :)

Online Chris Bergin

Kavoshgar Pishgam 2012
« Reply #49 on: 01/29/2013 09:35 pm »
Ok, everyone calm down.

I've only just seen this latest batch of posts (sorry QG - that was a slow response and my fault), and while it's fine to question governments etc, it's not allowable by way of site rules to make it personal.

Thread will be trimmed and I will warn all members to keep it on the subject of this site's content field, vehicles etc.

Offline hossein

  • Member
  • Posts: 23
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 0
Kavoshgar Pishgam 2012
« Reply #50 on: 01/30/2013 01:36 pm »
A few image grabs from the bio-capsule on board cameras...
« Last Edit: 01/30/2013 06:25 pm by Satori »

Offline hossein

  • Member
  • Posts: 23
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 0
Kavoshgar Pishgam 2012
« Reply #51 on: 01/30/2013 06:17 pm »
Ok some new pics and info from a press conference (2 hours ago):

The return vehicle:
(imageA)

and the happy monkey during a press conference. See, the monkey is happy to be back in Iran. I saw a lot of people commenting that the monkey was happy to have escaped Iran  ;D :

(imageB)

http://isna.ir/fa/news/91111106971/%D9%87%D8%B2%DB%8C%D9%86%D9%87-%D8%B3%D9%81%D8%B1-%D9%85%DB%8C%D9%85%D9%88%D9%86-%D9%BE%DB%8C%D8%B4%DA%AF%D8%A7%D9%85-%D8%A8%D9%87-%D9%81%D8%B6%D8%A7-%D9%BE%D8%B1%D8%AA%D8%A7%D8%A8-%D9%85%D8%A7%D9%87%D9%88%D8%A7%D8%B1%D9%87 The main point:
1-The overall cost of sending the monkey to space was less than 1 million US dollars.

http://isna.ir/fa/news/91111106975/-%D8%A2%D9%81%D8%AA%D8%A7%D8%A8-%D9%85%DB%8C%D9%85%D9%88%D9%86-%D9%81%D8%B6%D8%A7%D9%86%D9%88%D8%B1%D8%AF%D8%A7%DB%8C%D8%B1%D8%A7%D9%86%DB%8C-%D9%85%D9%87%D9%85%D8%A7%D9%86-%D9%86%D8%B4%D8%B3%D8%AA-%D8%AE%D8%A8%D8%B1%DB%8C Main points:
1-They plan to send a human to "sub-orbit" within 5-6 years.
2-After that they have a 5 year plan for a human "orbital" mission.
3-The next step is to send a Kavoshgar to a height of 175Km with a payload of 500kg (sub-orbital).

Rumor has it that they are going to send Qaem and fajr sattelites into orbit next week.
« Last Edit: 02/02/2013 09:30 am by input~2 »

Offline Nahavandi

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 127
  • Liked: 1
  • Likes Given: 0
Kavoshgar Pishgam 2012
« Reply #52 on: 02/01/2013 12:07 am »
Extended onboard footage (including parachute deployment):


Offline jcm

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3062
  • Jonathan McDowell
  • Somerville, Massachusetts, USA
    • Jonathan's Space Report
  • Liked: 604
  • Likes Given: 447
Kavoshgar Pishgam 2012
« Reply #53 on: 02/01/2013 09:41 pm »
A couple of journalists have asked me about this story

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iran/9842580/Is-Irans-space-monkey-a-fake.html

I don't take it very seriously - probably just lazy PR people using the wrong
stock footage. I'm sure the rocketing rhesus did get its ride. But it is just
possible it did a Bonnie and expired before it could make its press conference.
-----------------------------

Jonathan McDowell
http://planet4589.org

Offline hossein

  • Member
  • Posts: 23
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 0
Kavoshgar Pishgam 2012
« Reply #54 on: 02/01/2013 10:40 pm »
A couple of journalists have asked me about this story

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iran/9842580/Is-Irans-space-monkey-a-fake.html

I don't take it very seriously - probably just lazy PR people using the wrong
stock footage. I'm sure the rocketing rhesus did get its ride. But it is just
possible it did a Bonnie and expired before it could make its press conference.

I was going to comment on that. I'm writing a complete answer from multiple forums. Supplementary links can be provided if needed.

Apparently, three monkeys were launched into space:
1-March 12 2011, Kavoshgar 4, launched with a puppet monkey. This was for the purpose of testing the modules.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5h3oDYERFoUBzM2sY4qGIzBJ8JEcA?docId=CNG.9c024f6975002ea374ae27d6ace48f81.391
Here is an image from that launch:
(image1)
Other images can be found at the Iranian Space Agency website:
http://www.ari.ac.ir/index.php/component/content/article/75-1390-02-21-04-01-51/197--4.html

2-A live monkey was sent using Kavoshgar 5 between August 23 to September 22. This was a failure. The poor monkey died. The monkey used was the one with the large mole on its face:
(image2)
(image4)


Also see:
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5gJKz6xGAnEWwiGPlslaWxOlmG89Q?docId=CNG.983e76b03275e9c03f15821559210ce1.41
(The image used in the AFP article is incorrect)

3-The most recent launch using the monkey without the mole:


There are a number of marks which distinguish the 2nd and 3rd monkeys:
2nd: Has mole, wears white jacket, has black seatbelt, there is a white paper beside its head (while strapped in the seat) which is oriented as landscape.

3rd: No mole, wears black jacket, has half-black half-white seatbelt, there is a white paper beside its head (while strapped in the seat) which is oriented as portrait.

Compare Images below and the movies which have already been posted:

(image5)
(image6)
(image7)
(image8)
(image9)

And below are the missiles used for the three launches. They have visible differences (hint: look on the left of the blue Iranian Space Agency logo's on the missile)

1-(image10)

2-(image11)

3-(image12)

Unfortunately the Iranian News Agencies made a fool of themselves (and the Space Agency) by publishing the images from all launches at the same time without making a distinction between them  ??? ??? ??? :'(

I hope this helped.
« Last Edit: 02/02/2013 09:21 am by input~2 »

Offline jcm

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3062
  • Jonathan McDowell
  • Somerville, Massachusetts, USA
    • Jonathan's Space Report
  • Liked: 604
  • Likes Given: 447
Kavoshgar Pishgam 2012
« Reply #55 on: 02/02/2013 12:35 am »
hossein, thank you - a convincing analysis, and pretty much what I expected.
-----------------------------

Jonathan McDowell
http://planet4589.org


Offline Lewis007

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1396
  • the Netherlands
  • Liked: 352
  • Likes Given: 100
Kavoshgar Pishgam 2012
« Reply #57 on: 02/02/2013 07:23 am »
Some of the pictures provided this week even showed the date they were taken (September 7, 2012); i.e. the failed launch...

Offline Akira

  • Member
  • Posts: 2
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 0
Kavoshgar Pishgam 2012
« Reply #58 on: 02/02/2013 07:37 am »
Congratulations to the people of the Islamic Republic of Iran.

Offline Steven Pietrobon

  • Member
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 19072
  • Adelaide, Australia
    • Steven Pietrobon's Space Archive
  • Liked: 6966
  • Likes Given: 957
Kavoshgar Pishgam 2012
« Reply #59 on: 02/02/2013 08:41 am »
Some of the pictures provided this week even showed the date they were taken (September 7, 2012); i.e. the failed launch...

Yes, the photos show 7 September 2012, but the failed Kavoshgar-5 was reported to be on 7 September 2011. There was a failed flight in September 2012 (which exploded on the pad), but the launch site was for Safir-1B and not for Kavoshgar which uses a different site (this site only has four Iranian flags around it, instead of four towers). Maybe the photographer's camera had the wrong year programmed into it.
« Last Edit: 02/02/2013 08:42 am by Steven Pietrobon »
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

Offline jcm

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3062
  • Jonathan McDowell
  • Somerville, Massachusetts, USA
    • Jonathan's Space Report
  • Liked: 604
  • Likes Given: 447
Kavoshgar Pishgam 2012
« Reply #60 on: 02/02/2013 05:17 pm »
Some of the pictures provided this week even showed the date they were taken (September 7, 2012); i.e. the failed launch...

Yes, the photos show 7 September 2012, but the failed Kavoshgar-5 was reported to be on 7 September 2011. There was a failed flight in September 2012 (which exploded on the pad), but the launch site was for Safir-1B and not for Kavoshgar which uses a different site (this site only has four Iranian flags around it, instead of four towers). Maybe the photographer's camera had the wrong year programmed into it.


Or maybe there was *another* failed Kavoshgar in Sep 2012 as *well*
as the failed Safir?
There was certainly talk about the prospect of another one around that time.

What's the source for the '7' in 7 Sep 2011? I only had this as ? mid Sep 2011
« Last Edit: 02/02/2013 05:31 pm by jcm »
-----------------------------

Jonathan McDowell
http://planet4589.org

Offline Steven Pietrobon

  • Member
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 19072
  • Adelaide, Australia
    • Steven Pietrobon's Space Archive
  • Liked: 6966
  • Likes Given: 957
Kavoshgar Pishgam 2012
« Reply #61 on: 02/03/2013 03:39 am »
What's the source for the '7' in 7 Sep 2011? I only had this as ? mid Sep 2011

I think it was from the dates of the photos of the launch site before (clean pad) and after (explosion on pad). I think I chose the earlier date.

OK, this site has a bunch of photos which I've attached below (including one photo that hossein posted). I've renamed them according to their DateTimeOriginal timestamp contained within the EXIF information of the JPEG files.

http://theiranproject.com/blog/2013/01/28/photos-iran-successfully-launches-monkey-into-space/

Below we we have the DateTimeOriginal and DateTime information from the photos.

  DateTimeOriginal        DateTime
-------------------------------------------------------------
2012:09:07 15:46:20   2013:01:28 14:04:05
2012:09:07 17:15:32   2013:01:28 14:06:00   
2012:09:07 17:51:52   2013:01:28 14:06:14
2012:09:07 18:11:51   2013:01:28 14:07:22
2012:09:07 18:29:05   2013:01:28 14:06:48
2012:09:07 18:48:59   2013:01:28 14:35:39
2012:09:07 19:06:21   2013:01:28 14:07:57
2012:09:08 07:34:16   2013:01:28 14:14:27

We can see that the DateTime information is around 2 pm 28 January 2013. I'm guessing this is when the photos were downloaded from the camera. The DateTimeOriginal information is very interesting and ranges from 3:46 pm to 7:06 pm on 7 September 2012 and one photo at 7:34 am on 8 September 2012. The 8 September photo is unusual in that the round symbol above the blue A is large and green. In the previous photos this is small and red. The payload sections appear identical. As the rough spray pattern of the red fin look the same, it looks like a large green sticker was applied over the small red one.

What I can conclude from these photos was that a launch was scheduled on 7 September 2012, but for some reason it was cancelled.
« Last Edit: 02/03/2013 03:49 am by Steven Pietrobon »
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

Offline hossein

  • Member
  • Posts: 23
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 0
Kavoshgar Pishgam 2012
« Reply #62 on: 02/03/2013 10:11 am »
Quote
I think it was from the dates of the photos of the launch site before (clean pad) and after (explosion on pad). I think I chose the earlier date.

I think you have to make a distinction between the Kavoshgar and the Safir launches. Only the Safir rockets are launched from the Semnan launch pad whilst the Kavoshgar are launched from mobile carriers. I think the explosion on the launch pad had nothing to do with the Kavoshgar launches, because the Kavoshgar's were not launched from the Semanan launch pad.

Offline Skyrocket

  • Extreme Veteran
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2177
  • Frankfurt am Main, Germany
  • Liked: 356
  • Likes Given: 96
Kavoshgar Pishgam 2012
« Reply #63 on: 02/03/2013 11:56 am »
Quote
I think it was from the dates of the photos of the launch site before (clean pad) and after (explosion on pad). I think I chose the earlier date.

I think you have to make a distinction between the Kavoshgar and the Safir launches. Only the Safir rockets are launched from the Semnan launch pad whilst the Kavoshgar are launched from mobile carriers. I think the explosion on the launch pad had nothing to do with the Kavoshgar launches, because the Kavoshgar's were not launched from the Semanan launch pad.

Wasn't the Kavoshgar-1 mission launched on a Shahab-3 based rocket?

All later Kavoshgars were launched on smaller solid-fuel rockets. Kavoshgar-2 and -3 likely on a smaller Naze'at based rocket and from Kavoshgar-4 onward on the Zelzal based rocket shown here.
« Last Edit: 02/03/2013 12:02 pm by Skyrocket »

Offline mr. mark

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1996
  • Liked: 171
  • Likes Given: 0
Kavoshgar Pishgam 2012
« Reply #64 on: 02/03/2013 12:05 pm »
Video with expanded launch footage from multiple angles and more commentary.


Offline InvalidAttitude

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 119
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 3
Kavoshgar Pishgam 2012
« Reply #65 on: 02/03/2013 12:37 pm »
Quote
I think it was from the dates of the photos of the launch site before (clean pad) and after (explosion on pad). I think I chose the earlier date.

I think you have to make a distinction between the Kavoshgar and the Safir launches. Only the Safir rockets are launched from the Semnan launch pad whilst the Kavoshgar are launched from mobile carriers. I think the explosion on the launch pad had nothing to do with the Kavoshgar launches, because the Kavoshgar's were not launched from the Semanan launch pad.

Wasn't the Kavoshgar-1 mission launched on a Shahab-3 based rocket?

All later Kavoshgars were launched on smaller solid-fuel rockets. Kavoshgar-2 and -3 likely on a smaller Naze'at based rocket and from Kavoshgar-4 onward on the Zelzal based rocket shown here.

But it wasn't at Semnan either.

Semnan has a more mountainous landscape, while there you cannot see a single bump in ten miles. Somewhere either Qom or Eramshar mentioned as the launch scene.

Offline jcm

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3062
  • Jonathan McDowell
  • Somerville, Massachusetts, USA
    • Jonathan's Space Report
  • Liked: 604
  • Likes Given: 447
Kavoshgar Pishgam 2012
« Reply #66 on: 02/03/2013 03:57 pm »
 
What I can conclude from these photos was that a launch was scheduled on 7 September 2012, but for some reason it was cancelled.


Seems reasonable. So what's our theory now?

 -  mid Sep 2011     Kavoshgar 5  - launch but rocket goes bang, monkey 1  died
 -  Sep 2012    Pishgam 0 -  launch scrubbed, monkey 2 (mole-monkey) gets photo op being put in rocket, but does not get launched
 -  Jan 2013     Pishgam 1 - successful launch, monkey 3 (Pishgam) in space and returns safely

so mole-monkey might still be alive, but his/her backup got the reflight after the scrub.

Is that what you think, Stephen?

-----------------------------

Jonathan McDowell
http://planet4589.org

Offline Steven Pietrobon

  • Member
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 19072
  • Adelaide, Australia
    • Steven Pietrobon's Space Archive
  • Liked: 6966
  • Likes Given: 957
Kavoshgar Pishgam 2012
« Reply #67 on: 02/04/2013 03:51 am »
I think you have to make a distinction between the Kavoshgar and the Safir launches. Only the Safir rockets are launched from the Semnan launch pad whilst the Kavoshgar are launched from mobile carriers. I think the explosion on the launch pad had nothing to do with the Kavoshgar launches, because the Kavoshgar's were not launched from the Semanan launch pad.

Yes, I agree. Safir-IB and Kavoshgar are launched from different pads.

Seems reasonable. So what's our theory now?

 -  mid Sep 2011     Kavoshgar 5  - launch but rocket goes bang, monkey 1  died
 -  Sep 2012    Pishgam 0 -  launch scrubbed, monkey 2 (mole-monkey) gets photo op being put in rocket, but does not get launched
 -  Jan 2013     Pishgam 1 - successful launch, monkey 3 (Pishgam) in space and returns safely

so mole-monkey might still be alive, but his/her backup got the reflight after the scrub.

Is that what you think, Stephen?

Yes. One theory might be that Pishgam 0 was called off due to the Safir-1B failure. By the way, my Dad named me after actor Steve Reeves, and so my birth certificate says Steven, not Stephen!
« Last Edit: 02/04/2013 03:58 am by Steven Pietrobon »
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

Offline jcm

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3062
  • Jonathan McDowell
  • Somerville, Massachusetts, USA
    • Jonathan's Space Report
  • Liked: 604
  • Likes Given: 447
Kavoshgar Pishgam 2012
« Reply #68 on: 02/04/2013 04:36 am »
   By the way, my Dad named me after actor Steve Reeves, and so my birth certificate says Steven, not Stephen!

Steven, profound apologies, I try not to be that careless about people's names - I'll try and get it right next time!
« Last Edit: 02/04/2013 04:36 am by jcm »
-----------------------------

Jonathan McDowell
http://planet4589.org

Offline Steven Pietrobon

  • Member
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 19072
  • Adelaide, Australia
    • Steven Pietrobon's Space Archive
  • Liked: 6966
  • Likes Given: 957
Kavoshgar Pishgam 2012
« Reply #69 on: 02/04/2013 04:54 am »
No worries Jonathan. Its a common mistake.

Here's a compilation video of the Pishgam launch that looked interesting.



Below are three screen captures (the second one has been enhanced). This shows that that Pishgam vehicle has the Iranian flag above the blue A. Here's a summary of the markings.
              Nose     Flag         Hatch Symbol   Vehicle Symbol
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kavoshgar 4   Green    Vertical     Green          Blue A
Kavoshgar 5   ?        ?            ?              ?
Pishgam 0     Red      Horizontal   Red            Small Red (later Large Green)
Pishgam 1     Red      Horizontal   Green          Horizontal Flag
« Last Edit: 02/04/2013 05:19 am by Steven Pietrobon »
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

Offline jcm

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3062
  • Jonathan McDowell
  • Somerville, Massachusetts, USA
    • Jonathan's Space Report
  • Liked: 604
  • Likes Given: 447
Kavoshgar Pishgam 2012
« Reply #70 on: 02/04/2013 06:43 am »
Can we conclude that Pishgam 0 is a different vehicle from Pisgham 1?
In other words, they didn't just scrub 0 and roll it out again to become 1, otherwise
why repaint it? At least the payload section. The rocket only differs by the flag -   maybe  in the intervening months some general decided it didn't look patriotic enough.

And we don't have any image metadata (and thus exact dates) from Pishgam 1,
correct?
-----------------------------

Jonathan McDowell
http://planet4589.org

Offline Steven Pietrobon

  • Member
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 19072
  • Adelaide, Australia
    • Steven Pietrobon's Space Archive
  • Liked: 6966
  • Likes Given: 957
Kavoshgar Pishgam 2012
« Reply #71 on: 02/04/2013 07:16 am »
Can we conclude that Pishgam 0 is a different vehicle from Pisgham 1?

Yes, I think so as their paint jobs are completely different. The flag is not the only difference. You can also see the large blue A and the large blue Persian text are further apart for Pisgham 1 than it is for Pishgam 0. By the way, can anyone give a translation of the text on the rocket?

Quote
And we don't have any image metadata (and thus exact dates) from Pishgam 1, correct?

I havn't found any camera photos for Pishgam 1, so I don't have that data. Attached is a photo of Kavoshgar 4, where the EXIF date and time are 15 March 2011 and 6:25:04 am.
« Last Edit: 02/04/2013 07:23 am by Steven Pietrobon »
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

Offline Nahavandi

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 127
  • Liked: 1
  • Likes Given: 0
Kavoshgar Pishgam 2012
« Reply #72 on: 02/04/2013 11:06 am »

Offline hossein

  • Member
  • Posts: 23
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 0
Kavoshgar Pishgam 2012
« Reply #73 on: 02/04/2013 11:11 am »
 
What I can conclude from these photos was that a launch was scheduled on 7 September 2012, but for some reason it was cancelled.


Seems reasonable. So what's our theory now?

 -  mid Sep 2011     Kavoshgar 5  - launch but rocket goes bang, monkey 1  died
 -  Sep 2012    Pishgam 0 -  launch scrubbed, monkey 2 (mole-monkey) gets photo op being put in rocket, but does not get launched
 -  Jan 2013     Pishgam 1 - successful launch, monkey 3 (Pishgam) in space and returns safely

so mole-monkey might still be alive, but his/her backup got the reflight after the scrub.

Is that what you think, Stephen?



No. As I already mentioned in a previous post,

Test1: A puppet monkey was used to test the the modules on the rocket.
Test2: The mole-monkey was used which died. We have numerous reports which mention the goals of this test were not achieved but the images didn't come out until the recent test.
Test3: The recent test in which the monkey survived.

I dont know if there was a fourth test with a monkey on board. Dr Fazeli (from the Iranian space agency) mentioned that the success rate for space missile tests in the world is about 30%, and he didn't say that we have a better record.

Offline Steven Pietrobon

  • Member
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 19072
  • Adelaide, Australia
    • Steven Pietrobon's Space Archive
  • Liked: 6966
  • Likes Given: 957
Kavoshgar Pishgam 2012
« Reply #74 on: 02/05/2013 03:18 am »
Test1: A puppet monkey was used to test the the modules on the rocket

Yes, that was Kavoshgar 4 on 15 March 2011.

Quote
Test2: The mole-monkey was used which died. We have numerous reports which mention the goals of this test were not achieved but the images didn't come out until the recent test.

There was a reported failure of Kavoshgar 5 in September 2011. However, the photos of mole-monkey are from 7 September 2012, one year later. I believe there was another attempt which looks like to have been scrubbed. The photos from this attempt were accidentally released.

Quote
Test3: The recent test in which the monkey survived.

Yes, that that was Kavoshgar/Pishgam on 28 January 2013.
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

Offline Steven Pietrobon

  • Member
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 19072
  • Adelaide, Australia
    • Steven Pietrobon's Space Archive
  • Liked: 6966
  • Likes Given: 957
Kavoshgar Pishgam 2012
« Reply #75 on: 02/05/2013 03:43 am »
That photo from above has what I believe is Kavoshgar 5! The rocket has the Iranian flag closer to the top (compared to Pishgam 1) and there are no markings between the flag and large blue Persian text (still waiting on a translation on that). The launch rail only has white Persian text, like Kavoshgar 4. Pishgam 0 had a white A to the right of the writing, while Pishgam 1 had the white A to the left of the writing. Updated list
Vehicle      Nose   Flag   Hatch Symbol  Vehicle Symbol    Blue A  Rail A
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kavoshgar 4  Green  Vertical    Green    Blue A               Yes  None
Kavoshgar 5  Red    Horizontal  Green    Horizontal Flag      No   None
Pishgam 0    Red    Horizontal  Red      Small Red (early)    Yes  Right
                                         Large Green (later)  Yes  Right
Pishgam 1    Red    Horizontal  Green    Horizontal Flag      Yes  Left

One photo shows an early Constellation proposal showing Orion coming in to dock with Altair in low Earth orbit. Can anyone translate the Persion text in the enlarged photo below?
« Last Edit: 02/05/2013 04:08 am by Steven Pietrobon »
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

Offline InvalidAttitude

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 119
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 3
Kavoshgar Pishgam 2012
« Reply #76 on: 02/05/2013 05:26 pm »

Offline jcm

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3062
  • Jonathan McDowell
  • Somerville, Massachusetts, USA
    • Jonathan's Space Report
  • Liked: 604
  • Likes Given: 447
Kavoshgar Pishgam 2012
« Reply #77 on: 02/05/2013 09:35 pm »
Very interesting and comprehensive video about the Kavoshgar program:

http://isa.ir/components1.php?rQV==wHQxAkOklUZnFWdn5WYMJXZ0VWbhJXYw9lZ8B0NxYDQ6QWStVGdp9lZ8BUM4ATMApDZJ52bpR3Yh9lZ

Very nice - showing Kavoshgar 3, a low altitude capsule recovery test, and Pisgham.
-----------------------------

Jonathan McDowell
http://planet4589.org

Offline jcm

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3062
  • Jonathan McDowell
  • Somerville, Massachusetts, USA
    • Jonathan's Space Report
  • Liked: 604
  • Likes Given: 447
Kavoshgar Pishgam 2012
« Reply #78 on: 02/05/2013 09:35 pm »
Future GEO-communication satellite in development (Zoreh?)

This is Qaem, which was expected to be announced on 2 February. From prior information, launch is planned for 2017. The first photo you posted is of Nahid, which was expected to have folding satellite panels.

Heres a photo showing the recovered vehicles. Kavoshgar 4 is to the left and Pishgam 1 to the right. You can distinguish Kavoshgar 4 as it has the green O symbol on the hatch and green protuberances. Pishgam 1 had a red hatch and red protuberances. This photo also shows that Kavoshgar 5 has a red nose cone.

Nice analysis Steven!
-----------------------------

Jonathan McDowell
http://planet4589.org

Online Liss

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1071
  • Moscow, Russia
  • Liked: 225
  • Likes Given: 13
Kavoshgar Pishgam 2012
« Reply #79 on: 02/07/2013 01:39 pm »

Yes, the photos show 7 September 2012, but the failed Kavoshgar-5 was reported to be on 7 September 2011.

This is not correct. In the report http://www.presstv.ir/detail/199033.html issued on 14 Sep 2011 the launch is still announced to occur in the future.
This message reflects my personal opinion based on open sources of information.

Offline Steven Pietrobon

  • Member
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 19072
  • Adelaide, Australia
    • Steven Pietrobon's Space Archive
  • Liked: 6966
  • Likes Given: 957
Kavoshgar Pishgam 2012
« Reply #80 on: 02/08/2013 09:50 am »

Yes, the photos show 7 September 2012, but the failed Kavoshgar-5 was reported to be on 7 September 2011.

This is not correct. In the report http://www.presstv.ir/detail/199033.html issued on 14 Sep 2011 the launch is still announced to occur in the future.

Thanks Liss. I should have clarified that 7 September was my estimate of the launch date. I'm going to change my launch records to show 14 September 2011, but still with a question mark as we don't know the exact date.

Here's a report from 1 August 2012 saying that Kavoshgar 5 was going to be launched between 19 and 20 August 2012.

http://en.rian.ru/science/20120801/174910464.html
« Last Edit: 02/08/2013 10:06 am by Steven Pietrobon »
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

Online Liss

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1071
  • Moscow, Russia
  • Liked: 225
  • Likes Given: 13
Kavoshgar Pishgam 2012
« Reply #81 on: 02/09/2013 07:40 am »
Jonathan is quoted by Fars News to prove Pishgam flight was real: http://www.farsnews.com/newstext.php?nn=13911116001066
This message reflects my personal opinion based on open sources of information.

Offline jcm

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3062
  • Jonathan McDowell
  • Somerville, Massachusetts, USA
    • Jonathan's Space Report
  • Liked: 604
  • Likes Given: 447
Kavoshgar Pishgam 2012
« Reply #82 on: 02/09/2013 05:04 pm »
Jonathan is quoted by Fars News to prove Pishgam flight was real: http://www.farsnews.com/newstext.php?nn=13911116001066

That's kind of cool!  Thanks for the link.
-----------------------------

Jonathan McDowell
http://planet4589.org

Offline Soheil

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 314
  • O_o
  • Tehran, I.R.IRAN
  • Liked: 27
  • Likes Given: 13
Kavoshgar Pishgam 2012
« Reply #83 on: 02/10/2013 02:03 pm »
« Last Edit: 02/10/2013 02:13 pm by Satori »
First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.

Offline Blackstar

  • Veteran
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11645
  • Liked: 3196
  • Likes Given: 1
Kavoshgar Pishgam 2012
« Reply #84 on: 02/10/2013 07:24 pm »
Jonathan is quoted by Fars News to prove Pishgam flight was real: http://www.farsnews.com/newstext.php?nn=13911116001066

That's kind of cool!  Thanks for the link.


Jonathan, how do we know that you are real?

Offline Soheil

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 314
  • O_o
  • Tehran, I.R.IRAN
  • Liked: 27
  • Likes Given: 13
Kavoshgar Pishgam 2012
« Reply #85 on: 02/11/2013 06:37 am »
Jonathan is quoted by Fars News to prove Pishgam flight was real: http://www.farsnews.com/newstext.php?nn=13911116001066

That's kind of cool!  Thanks for the link.


 ;) wise man
First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.

Offline Steven Pietrobon

  • Member
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 19072
  • Adelaide, Australia
    • Steven Pietrobon's Space Archive
  • Liked: 6966
  • Likes Given: 957
Kavoshgar Pishgam 2012
« Reply #86 on: 02/11/2013 06:40 am »
I know Jonathan is real as I've met him.

Jonathan, do you still think that Pishgam 0 was launched in 2011?

Thanks for the crew capsule photos Soheil.
« Last Edit: 02/11/2013 06:45 am by Steven Pietrobon »
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

Offline Soheil

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 314
  • O_o
  • Tehran, I.R.IRAN
  • Liked: 27
  • Likes Given: 13
Kavoshgar Pishgam 2012
« Reply #87 on: 02/11/2013 09:00 am »
I know Jonathan is real as I've met him.

Jonathan, do you still think that Pishgam 0 was launched in 2011?

Thanks for the crew capsule photos Soheil.

http://soheilesy.persiangig.com/image/SATL/PISHGAM-1.jpg

next step is a bigger capsule & chimpanzee (liquid fuel rocket)
« Last Edit: 02/11/2013 09:06 am by anik »
First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.

Online Liss

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1071
  • Moscow, Russia
  • Liked: 225
  • Likes Given: 13
Kavoshgar Pishgam 2012
« Reply #88 on: 02/11/2013 09:18 pm »
That photo from above has what I believe is Kavoshgar 5! The rocket has the Iranian flag closer to the top (compared to Pishgam 1) and there are no markings between the flag and large blue Persian text (still waiting on a translation on that). The launch rail only has white Persian text, like Kavoshgar 4. Pishgam 0 had a white A to the right of the writing, while Pishgam 1 had the white A to the left of the writing.

Nice find, Steven!
So I believe we've seen images of four different launch vehicles of Zelzal type within the Kavoshgar program.
We also know all the four has been launched: the 1st and 4th -- from official announcements, the September 2011 vehicle -- from a post-mortem by Deputy Science Minister Mohammad Mehdinejad-Nouri and the September 2012 vehicle --from timestamped launch photos.
I think video of the http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=11734.msg1009100#msg1009100 message may contain footage of all the four launches but it is not clear enough to be sure.

BTW, shouldn't we split the topic and to have a separate thread for the Kavoshgar Pishgam story?
This message reflects my personal opinion based on open sources of information.

Offline jcm

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3062
  • Jonathan McDowell
  • Somerville, Massachusetts, USA
    • Jonathan's Space Report
  • Liked: 604
  • Likes Given: 447
Kavoshgar Pishgam 2012
« Reply #89 on: 02/11/2013 10:36 pm »
I know Jonathan is real as I've met him.

Jonathan, do you still think that Pishgam 0 was launched in 2011?

Thanks for the crew capsule photos Soheil.

Well I've met the man claiming to be Blackstar but he doesn't look
much like his Facebook headshot. So I'm not convinced he really exists.

There were certainly preparations for a  Sep 2011 launch, and there was no successful launch. I tend to think there was a failure, but I can't prove it. I call that launch Kavoshgar 5 since that's what people were saying at the time. I think your photos prove there were preps for a launch in Sep 2012, which I am calling Pishgam 0. I tend to think that
launch was just scrubbed, but again I can't prove it.
-----------------------------

Jonathan McDowell
http://planet4589.org

Offline jcm

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3062
  • Jonathan McDowell
  • Somerville, Massachusetts, USA
    • Jonathan's Space Report
  • Liked: 604
  • Likes Given: 447
Kavoshgar Pishgam 2012
« Reply #90 on: 02/11/2013 10:39 pm »
That photo from above has what I believe is Kavoshgar 5! The rocket has the Iranian flag closer to the top (compared to Pishgam 1) and there are no markings between the flag and large blue Persian text (still waiting on a translation on that). The launch rail only has white Persian text, like Kavoshgar 4. Pishgam 0 had a white A to the right of the writing, while Pishgam 1 had the white A to the left of the writing.

Nice find, Steven!
So I believe we've seen images of four different launch vehicles of Zelzal type within the Kavoshgar program.
We also know all the four has been launched: the 1st and 4th -- from official announcements, the September 2011 vehicle -- from a post-mortem by Deputy Science Minister Mohammad Mehdinejad-Nouri and the September 2012 vehicle --from timestamped launch photos.
I think video of the http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=11734.msg1009100#msg1009100 message may contain footage of all the four launches but it is not clear enough to be sure.

BTW, shouldn't we split the topic and to have a separate thread for the Kavoshgar Pishgam story?

Careful Igor!  The timestamped photos for the Sep 2012 vehicle show preparations for a launch, but AFAIK they do not show a launch.
The mixup over the photos and the timestamp data to me make me think that there was a scrub, and that's why they didn't even download the images until this Feb launch.
-----------------------------

Jonathan McDowell
http://planet4589.org

Online Liss

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1071
  • Moscow, Russia
  • Liked: 225
  • Likes Given: 13
Kavoshgar Pishgam 2012
« Reply #91 on: 02/12/2013 06:44 am »
We also know all the four has been launched: the 1st and 4th -- from official announcements, the September 2011 vehicle -- from a post-mortem by Deputy Science Minister Mohammad Mehdinejad-Nouri and the September 2012 vehicle --from timestamped launch photos.
I think video of the http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=11734.msg1009100#msg1009100 message may contain footage of all the four launches but it is not clear enough to be sure.

Careful Igor!  The timestamped photos for the Sep 2012 vehicle show preparations for a launch, but AFAIK they do not show a launch.
The mixup over the photos and the timestamp data to me make me think that there was a scrub, and that's why they didn't even download the images until this Feb launch.

Jonathan, all the 13 images released on Jan 28 are timestamped and they do show the launch. See
http://www.mashreghnews.ir/files/fa/news/1391/11/9/267486_540.jpg
http://www.mashreghnews.ir/files/fa/news/1391/11/9/267487_811.jpg
http://www.mashreghnews.ir/files/fa/news/1391/11/9/267488_110.jpg
http://www.mashreghnews.ir/files/fa/news/1391/11/9/267489_888.jpg
This message reflects my personal opinion based on open sources of information.

Offline Yarrah

  • Member
  • Posts: 63
  • Utrecht, The Netherlands
  • Liked: 1
  • Likes Given: 6
Kavoshgar Pishgam 2012
« Reply #92 on: 02/12/2013 08:17 am »
What if the timestamp refers to the Iranian calender? This would mean we should read it as the 9th day of the eleventh month (Bahman) of the year 1391. If I'm correct, this would translate to January 28th 2013...

Online Liss

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1071
  • Moscow, Russia
  • Liked: 225
  • Likes Given: 13
Kavoshgar Pishgam 2012
« Reply #93 on: 02/12/2013 09:20 am »
What if the timestamp refers to the Iranian calender? This would mean we should read it as the 9th day of the eleventh month (Bahman) of the year 1391. If I'm correct, this would translate to January 28th 2013...
Yarrah, this is for sure. I suspect the launch in fact occured Jan 25 or 26 but cannot prove it. The images were published Jan 28 but their EXIF marks are from Sep 07 and 08, 2012.
This message reflects my personal opinion based on open sources of information.

Offline hossein

  • Member
  • Posts: 23
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 0
Kavoshgar Pishgam 2012
« Reply #94 on: 02/12/2013 09:42 pm »
That photo from above has what I believe is Kavoshgar 5! The rocket has the Iranian flag closer to the top (compared to Pishgam 1) and there are no markings between the flag and large blue Persian text (still waiting on a translation on that). The launch rail only has white Persian text, like Kavoshgar 4. Pishgam 0 had a white A to the right of the writing, while Pishgam 1 had the white A to the left of the writing. Updated list
Vehicle      Nose   Flag   Hatch Symbol  Vehicle Symbol    Blue A  Rail A
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kavoshgar 4  Green  Vertical    Green    Blue A               Yes  None
Kavoshgar 5  Red    Horizontal  Green    Horizontal Flag      No   None
Pishgam 0    Red    Horizontal  Red      Small Red (early)    Yes  Right
                                         Large Green (later)  Yes  Right
Pishgam 1    Red    Horizontal  Green    Horizontal Flag      Yes  Left

One photo shows an early Constellation proposal showing Orion coming in to dock with Altair in low Earth orbit. Can anyone translate the Persion text in the enlarged photo below?

Nothing important:

Top image:
On the missile: Pishgam kavoshgar (explorer)
On the launch vehicle: Pishgam kavoshgar (explorer) launch vehicle (or pad)

Bottom image: Space control modules

Offline jcm

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3062
  • Jonathan McDowell
  • Somerville, Massachusetts, USA
    • Jonathan's Space Report
  • Liked: 604
  • Likes Given: 447
Kavoshgar Pishgam 2012
« Reply #95 on: 02/13/2013 01:58 am »
We also know all the four has been launched: the 1st and 4th -- from official announcements, the September 2011 vehicle -- from a post-mortem by Deputy Science Minister Mohammad Mehdinejad-Nouri and the September 2012 vehicle --from timestamped launch photos.
I think video of the http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=11734.msg1009100#msg1009100 message may contain footage of all the four launches but it is not clear enough to be sure.

Careful Igor!  The timestamped photos for the Sep 2012 vehicle show preparations for a launch, but AFAIK they do not show a launch.
The mixup over the photos and the timestamp data to me make me think that there was a scrub, and that's why they didn't even download the images until this Feb launch.

Jonathan, all the 13 images released on Jan 28 are timestamped and they do show the launch. See
http://www.mashreghnews.ir/files/fa/news/1391/11/9/267486_540.jpg
http://www.mashreghnews.ir/files/fa/news/1391/11/9/267487_811.jpg
http://www.mashreghnews.ir/files/fa/news/1391/11/9/267488_110.jpg
http://www.mashreghnews.ir/files/fa/news/1391/11/9/267489_888.jpg


OK, I had not seen these before. The three showing the rocket near the ground all have timestamp 2012 Sep 8 at 0800:46  (presumably local time). Question: how do cameras know what time it is? - can we be sure it
is set with the correct date? Is it plausible that three of the four photos were taken within one second?  (that seems tight)

so, some doubts, but I agree this is strong presumptive evidence that there was indeed a Pishgam 0 launch on 2012 Sep 8 at 0800 Iran time = 0430 UTC, and that we don't have any Pishgam 1 images with EXIF metadata.
Or did your last comment mean that you think this is a Pisgham 1 Jan 25 or 26 launch but the EXIF data is wrong? 
-----------------------------

Jonathan McDowell
http://planet4589.org

Online Liss

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1071
  • Moscow, Russia
  • Liked: 225
  • Likes Given: 13
Kavoshgar Pishgam 2012
« Reply #96 on: 02/13/2013 05:08 am »
Is it plausible that three of the four photos were taken within one second?  (that seems tight)

so, some doubts, but I agree this is strong presumptive evidence that there was indeed a Pishgam 0 launch on 2012 Sep 8 at 0800 Iran time = 0430 UTC, and that we don't have any Pishgam 1 images with EXIF metadata.
Or did your last comment mean that you think this is a Pisgham 1 Jan 25 or 26 launch but the EXIF data is wrong? 
Camera date may be wrong or true, but the 13 image set shows a different rocket from three others, and it has started.
Three images in one second are plausible -- this solid fuel rocket shows acceleration of 5g or so. Check its path in the first second in the video.
No, I haven't seen any photo of the January launch or pre-launch, only grabs from video. But I've seen what I think may be actual NOTAM for this operation, and it was for Jan 25-26.
This message reflects my personal opinion based on open sources of information.

Offline jcm

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3062
  • Jonathan McDowell
  • Somerville, Massachusetts, USA
    • Jonathan's Space Report
  • Liked: 604
  • Likes Given: 447
Kavoshgar Pishgam 2012
« Reply #97 on: 02/13/2013 05:59 am »
Is it plausible that three of the four photos were taken within one second?  (that seems tight)

so, some doubts, but I agree this is strong presumptive evidence that there was indeed a Pishgam 0 launch on 2012 Sep 8 at 0800 Iran time = 0430 UTC, and that we don't have any Pishgam 1 images with EXIF metadata.
Or did your last comment mean that you think this is a Pisgham 1 Jan 25 or 26 launch but the EXIF data is wrong? 

Camera date may be wrong or true, but the 13 image set shows a different rocket from three others, and it has started [sic - you mean launched]


OK - I couldn't tell the rocket in those images from Pishgam 1, but I'll take you word for it that it's different.

Quote
Three images in one second are plausible -- this solid fuel rocket shows acceleration of 5g or so. Check its path in the first second in the video.
OK

Quote
No, I haven't seen any photo of the January launch or pre-launch, only grabs from video. But I've seen what I think may be actual NOTAM for this operation, and it was for Jan 25-26.

Ah, interesting.
Although we'd have to rule out the possibility that another NOTAM was issued for Jan 28 that we haven't seen
(there could have been a postponement). But I'll adopt Jan 25 as the new
presumptive date.

Thanks for your comments, very interesting as always
« Last Edit: 02/13/2013 06:00 am by jcm »
-----------------------------

Jonathan McDowell
http://planet4589.org

Offline Steven Pietrobon

  • Member
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 19072
  • Adelaide, Australia
    • Steven Pietrobon's Space Archive
  • Liked: 6966
  • Likes Given: 957
Kavoshgar Pishgam 2012
« Reply #98 on: 02/13/2013 06:47 am »
Thanks Hossain for the translations.

Question: how do cameras know what time it is?

The date and time can be manually programmed or reset by the computer whenever the camera is connected to the computer.

Quote
- can we be sure it is set with the correct date?

We can never be 100% sure. This data can be manipulated, the camera was manually programmed with the wrong date or the computer was programmed with the wrong date.

Quote
Is it plausible that three of the four photos were taken within one second?  (that seems tight)

Yes, I think so. This rocket takes off very quickly. The EXIF also shows SubSecTimeOriginal of 50, 71 and 91 for the three photos in succession. These are the sub-second times when the photos were taken. Thus, I presume the photos were taken at 8 hours, 0 minutes and 46.50, 46.71 and 46.91 seconds, respectively. This gives a frame rate of about 5 Hz.

As to the designations, note that Pishgam 0 was also called Kavoshgar 5 according to that press announcement before the launch. In my records, I am calling the three red nosed launchers Kovoshgar 5 F1, F2 and F3.
« Last Edit: 02/13/2013 06:59 am by Steven Pietrobon »
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

Offline hossein

  • Member
  • Posts: 23
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 0
Kavoshgar Pishgam 2012
« Reply #99 on: 02/18/2013 02:19 pm »
Iranian Space Agency releases full high quality video of launch and retrieval of Pishgam Kavoshgar (with the latest monkey):

http://www.ari.ac.ir/images/stories/videos/partab.wmv

Poor monkey had a little rough landing  ;) I think due to a partial entanglement of the main parachute.

Offline mr. mark

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1996
  • Liked: 171
  • Likes Given: 0
Kavoshgar Pishgam 2012
« Reply #100 on: 02/18/2013 02:43 pm »
Really want to see the video but, I don't want to download it for 2 hours. Is there a streaming edition?

Offline Soheil

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 314
  • O_o
  • Tehran, I.R.IRAN
  • Liked: 27
  • Likes Given: 13
Kavoshgar Pishgam 2012
« Reply #101 on: 02/18/2013 03:14 pm »
Really want to see the video but, I don't want to download it for 2 hours. Is there a streaming edition?

what ??? 2 hours !!!  for 212 MB ???
First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.

Offline Steven Pietrobon

  • Member
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 19072
  • Adelaide, Australia
    • Steven Pietrobon's Space Archive
  • Liked: 6966
  • Likes Given: 957
Kavoshgar Pishgam 2012
« Reply #102 on: 02/19/2013 06:38 am »
Really want to see the video but, I don't want to download it for 2 hours. Is there a streaming edition?
what ??? 2 hours !!!  for 212 MB ???

Yes, its only coming down at 30 kb/s and I have an ADSL2 connection.

Thanks Liss for posting that NOTAM. Can you tell us where you got it from? I'd like to see if there were NOTAMs in September 2011 and May 2012 for the previous failed launchers. Also, where can I get a translation of all those acronyms used in the NOTAM? What indicates that this is a NOTAM for a launch?
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

Offline Steven Pietrobon

  • Member
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 19072
  • Adelaide, Australia
    • Steven Pietrobon's Space Archive
  • Liked: 6966
  • Likes Given: 957
Kavoshgar Pishgam 2012
« Reply #103 on: 02/19/2013 11:52 am »
Here are screen captures of the full video. I've added a brief description of each event.
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

Offline InvalidAttitude

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 119
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 3
Kavoshgar Pishgam 2012
« Reply #104 on: 02/19/2013 03:48 pm »
Really want to see the video but, I don't want to download it for 2 hours. Is there a streaming edition?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Xo-7QjxxcDg#!

Online Salo

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3542
  • Odessa, Ukraine
  • Liked: 428
  • Likes Given: 888
Kavoshgar Pishgam 2012
« Reply #105 on: 02/20/2013 09:52 pm »

Offline jcm

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3062
  • Jonathan McDowell
  • Somerville, Massachusetts, USA
    • Jonathan's Space Report
  • Liked: 604
  • Likes Given: 447
Kavoshgar Pishgam 2012
« Reply #106 on: 02/21/2013 02:50 am »
http://www.oosa.unvienna.org/oosa/en/COPUOS/stsc/2013/presentations.html
The Pioneer Mission of the Kavoshgar
R. Kalantari Nejad, Iran (Islamic Republic of)
http://www.oosa.unvienna.org/pdf/pres/stsc2013/tech-53E.pdf

Very nice!
So they for the first time officially distinguish between the Nazeat type (Class B) and the Zelzal type (Class C) of Kavoshgar launches.
-----------------------------

Jonathan McDowell
http://planet4589.org

Offline Comet

  • Full Member
  • **
  • Posts: 284
  • Liked: 61
  • Likes Given: 19
Kavoshgar Pishgam 2012
« Reply #107 on: 02/21/2013 07:10 am »
http://www.oosa.unvienna.org/oosa/en/COPUOS/stsc/2013/presentations.html
The Pioneer Mission of the Kavoshgar
R. Kalantari Nejad, Iran (Islamic Republic of)
http://www.oosa.unvienna.org/pdf/pres/stsc2013/tech-53E.pdf

Very nice!
So they for the first time officially distinguish between the Nazeat type (Class B) and the Zelzal type (Class C) of Kavoshgar launches.







Did you really need the official classification of the rockets? After all, it was clear from the beginning that there are two families of rockets.

BTW, note that the are NOT claiming the successful recovery of the rat and turtle...

Offline Steven Pietrobon

  • Member
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 19072
  • Adelaide, Australia
    • Steven Pietrobon's Space Archive
  • Liked: 6966
  • Likes Given: 957
Kavoshgar Pishgam 2012
« Reply #108 on: 02/21/2013 07:16 am »
Thanks for posting that. I see a fifth Kavoshgar capsule! This one has a black nose cone and an Iranian flag under the hatch. Also attached are interesting images from the presentation I extracted.
« Last Edit: 02/21/2013 08:13 am by Steven Pietrobon »
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

Online Liss

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1071
  • Moscow, Russia
  • Liked: 225
  • Likes Given: 13
Kavoshgar Pishgam 2012
« Reply #109 on: 02/21/2013 09:27 am »
Very nice!
So they for the first time officially distinguish between the Nazeat type (Class B) and the Zelzal type (Class C) of Kavoshgar launches.
... Class A being the two initial launches in 2007 and 2008 with Shahab-3B as a launch vehicle. And we can suppose Class D for a future 500 kg chimp capsule.
From the heart rate / g load graphs I reduced flight time of 723 seconds and max registered g load of 12.79 g. On landing g-load was offscale high.
The video is only 696 seconds -- it has two cuts of 14 sec before the reentry and 13 sec under chute.
« Last Edit: 02/21/2013 09:30 am by Liss »
This message reflects my personal opinion based on open sources of information.

Offline InvalidAttitude

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 119
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 3
Kavoshgar Pishgam 2012
« Reply #110 on: 02/21/2013 03:04 pm »

BTW, note that the are NOT claiming the successful recovery of the rat and turtle...


"Primary biospace research - Feb 2010 - successful recovery"  BTW photographic evidence suggest  the capsule was returned pretty much intact.
« Last Edit: 02/21/2013 03:05 pm by InvalidAttitude »

Offline Soheil

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 314
  • O_o
  • Tehran, I.R.IRAN
  • Liked: 27
  • Likes Given: 13
AFTAB ( Iranian space monkey )
« Reply #111 on: 02/22/2013 10:24 am »
AFTAB  :-*
First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.

Offline oscar71

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 182
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: AFTAB ( Iranian space monkey )
« Reply #112 on: 02/22/2013 03:46 pm »
Awwww....so cute!

Offline BrightLight

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1343
  • Northern New Mexico
  • Liked: 243
  • Likes Given: 355
Re: AFTAB ( Iranian space monkey )
« Reply #113 on: 02/22/2013 03:59 pm »
Nice post!

Offline Steven Pietrobon

  • Member
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 19072
  • Adelaide, Australia
    • Steven Pietrobon's Space Archive
  • Liked: 6966
  • Likes Given: 957
Re: AFTAB ( Iranian space monkey )
« Reply #114 on: 02/23/2013 04:53 am »
Hmm, very interesting! The nose cone here is purple, which looking back at the other Kavoshgar Pishgam photos does seem to show purple. So I think I was mistaken in thinking it was red.

Soheil, are you saying the Monkey's name is AFTAB and not Pishgam? What does AFTAB mean?
« Last Edit: 02/23/2013 04:58 am by Steven Pietrobon »
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

Online Liss

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1071
  • Moscow, Russia
  • Liked: 225
  • Likes Given: 13
Re: AFTAB ( Iranian space monkey )
« Reply #115 on: 02/23/2013 07:31 am »
Aftab is indeed the monkey's name and it means Sun.
This message reflects my personal opinion based on open sources of information.

Offline Steven Pietrobon

  • Member
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 19072
  • Adelaide, Australia
    • Steven Pietrobon's Space Archive
  • Liked: 6966
  • Likes Given: 957
Re: AFTAB ( Iranian space monkey )
« Reply #116 on: 02/24/2013 06:16 am »
Thanks Liss. Do you have a source which confirms the monkey's name is Aftab? I haven't seen that name in any of the news reports.
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

Online Liss

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1071
  • Moscow, Russia
  • Liked: 225
  • Likes Given: 13
Re: AFTAB ( Iranian space monkey )
« Reply #117 on: 02/24/2013 07:08 am »
Thanks Liss. Do you have a source which confirms the monkey's name is Aftab? I haven't seen that name in any of the news reports.
In English, no mentions indeed but a lot in Farsi. For example, ISNA news item http://isna.ir/fa/news/91111207075/-%D8%A2%D9%81%D8%AA%D8%A7%D8%A8-%D9%85%DB%8C%D9%85%D9%88%D9%86-%D9%81%D8%B6%D8%A7%D9%86%D9%88%D8%B1%D8%AF-%D8%A7%DB%8C%D8%B1%D8%A7%D9%86%DB%8C-%D9%85%D9%87%D9%85%D8%A7%D9%86-%D9%86%D8%B4%D8%B3%D8%AA-%D8%AE%D8%A8%D8%B1%DB%8C from 1391/11/12 (January 29) says:

به گزارش خبرنگار فناوری خبرگزاری دانشجویان ایران (ایسنا)، این میمون نر سه ساله از نژاد رزئوس که در بین محققان پژوهشکده سامانه‌های فضانوردی سازمان فضایی ایران به «آفتاب» معروف است،

which Google translates as

Technology reporter Iranian Students News Agency (ISNA), the three-year-old male monkey Rzyvs race between researchers at the Institute for Iranian Space Agency astronaut systems, "Sunshine" is known...

Rzyvs obviously means rhesus and Sunshine (Sun in other translations) corresponds to the name Aftab («آفتاب»).
This message reflects my personal opinion based on open sources of information.

Offline Steven Pietrobon

  • Member
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 19072
  • Adelaide, Australia
    • Steven Pietrobon's Space Archive
  • Liked: 6966
  • Likes Given: 957
Re: AFTAB ( Iranian space monkey )
« Reply #118 on: 02/25/2013 06:31 am »
Thanks Liss, that's much appreciated.
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

Offline jcm

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3062
  • Jonathan McDowell
  • Somerville, Massachusetts, USA
    • Jonathan's Space Report
  • Liked: 604
  • Likes Given: 447
Re: AFTAB ( Iranian space monkey )
« Reply #119 on: 02/27/2013 12:30 am »
Thanks Liss, that's much appreciated.

Ditto

btw, there is an Indian dish called chicken aftabi, which has a fried
egg on the top (meant to be like a sunrise)

-----------------------------

Jonathan McDowell
http://planet4589.org

Offline isro-watch

  • Member
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 331
  • Liked: 22
  • Likes Given: 5
Re: AFTAB ( Iranian space monkey )
« Reply #120 on: 02/27/2013 02:54 am »
How far did this monkey go ? Was this a orbital flight and a planned descent ?

Offline Steven Pietrobon

  • Member
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 19072
  • Adelaide, Australia
    • Steven Pietrobon's Space Archive
  • Liked: 6966
  • Likes Given: 957
Re: AFTAB ( Iranian space monkey )
« Reply #121 on: 02/27/2013 04:08 am »
Aftab was launched on a suborbital flight to an altitude of 120 km and successfully recovered, as planned.
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

Offline hossein

  • Member
  • Posts: 23
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: AFTAB ( Iranian space monkey )
« Reply #122 on: 02/27/2013 11:08 am »
The correct translation of AFTAB is "sunshine" not "sun"

Offline Lewis007

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1396
  • the Netherlands
  • Liked: 352
  • Likes Given: 100
Re: Kavoshgar Pishgam -- Aftab (Iranian Space Monkey)
« Reply #123 on: 02/28/2013 06:42 am »
The name reminds me of TAFKAP; The Artist Formerly Known As Prince.
In this case; the monkey formerly known as Pishgam...  :D

Tags: