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#80
by
Galactic Penguin SST
on 24 Apr, 2013 11:18
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NASA on Twitter:
NASA @NASA
Update: Once in orbit, an antenna used as a navigational aid on the Progress did not deploy. Russian ground controllers are assessing a fix.
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#81
by
Galactic Penguin SST
on 24 Apr, 2013 12:28
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I guess this is not exactly a concern, given that the antenna can be re-commanded for deployment, and if that didn't work the docking can simply be done with TORU?
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#82
by
dedead
on 24 Apr, 2013 12:31
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#83
by
Galactic Penguin SST
on 24 Apr, 2013 12:36
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#84
by
Satori
on 24 Apr, 2013 12:39
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#85
by
Satori
on 24 Apr, 2013 13:03
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Launch Video from Roscosmos
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#86
by
asmi
on 24 Apr, 2013 13:39
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Will the ISS accept using the TORU manual controls right from the start? 
Well this article says they will dock this Progress no matter what. I'm sure the Russians have got some backup plans for such occasion as they always seem to have a plan B in case plan A doesn't work
And Plan C in case plan B doesn't
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#87
by
Danderman
on 24 Apr, 2013 14:38
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The Kurs antennas that deploy are for the last moments of the rendezvous and docking. The requirement is that the short range antennas all be deployed to successfully complete the fly-around, and then the station-keeping once the flyaround is completed.
AFAIK, no Progress vehicle has had a Kurs failure prior to achieving station-keeping. Kurs failures normally occur in the short range phase after station-keeping.
Soyuz T-8 suffered a similar antenna failure and was unable to dock. The problem was in matching speed and orientation with Salyut without a functioning antenna set.
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#88
by
mtakala24
on 24 Apr, 2013 15:10
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Danderman: that sounds interesting. Hopefully the Russians figure this out. At least there's a bit of time for solving&planning. When was TORU used last time?
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#89
by
Galactic Penguin SST
on 24 Apr, 2013 15:30
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Danderman: that sounds interesting. Hopefully the Russians figure this out. At least there's a bit of time for solving&planning. When was TORU used last time?
AFAIK these are the last few times the TORU was used:
Progress M-53 - June 2005
Progress M-01M - November 2008
Progress M-67 - July 2009
Progress M-05M - May 2010
Progress M-08M - October 2010
The problem is that in all these cases the Kurs system failed on final approach, while this time you have a Progress without Kurs right from the start. I don't recall any instance of such a problem at least in the history of ISS.
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#90
by
Danderman
on 24 Apr, 2013 15:47
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I believe that TORU has a range of 7 kilometers, so that won't be a problem - as long as TsUP can figure out a way to safely get Progress within that 7 kilometers. I am not sure how Kurs works in this "mid-range" phase of rendezvous (from 200 km out to station-keeping). In particular, I don't know how Kurs controls the fly-around. We might find this out this week.
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#91
by
Galactic Penguin SST
on 24 Apr, 2013 15:49
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I believe that TORU has a range of 7 kilometers, so that won't be a problem - as long as TsUP can figure out a way to safely get Progress within that 7 kilometers. I am not sure how Kurs works in this "mid-range" phase of rendezvous (from 200 km out to station-keeping). In particular, I don't know how Kurs controls the fly-around. We might find this out this week.
Well the main issue currently is that with the Progress requiring manual control from at least several kilometers away, could there be issues with using it a la Progress M-34?
But I guess the cosmonaut training should have improved greatly since 1997.....
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#92
by
asmi
on 24 Apr, 2013 15:54
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Well the main issue currently is that with the Progress requiring manual control from at least several kilometers away, could there be issues with using it a la Progress M-34?
But I guess the cosmonaut training should have improved greatly since 1997.....
That was completely unrelated to Kurs failure at long range. There is no station at long range.
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#93
by
Galactic Penguin SST
on 24 Apr, 2013 16:00
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Well the main issue currently is that with the Progress requiring manual control from at least several kilometers away, could there be issues with using it a la Progress M-34?
But I guess the cosmonaut training should have improved greatly since 1997.....
That was completely unrelated to Kurs failure at long range. There is no station at long range.
I guess the major issue right now isn't that the Kurs have failed, it's with whether TORU + cosmonaut can be trusted to control the Progress right from the start of fly-around, as opposed to during final approach.
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#94
by
Danderman
on 24 Apr, 2013 16:05
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Well the main issue currently is that with the Progress requiring manual control from at least several kilometers away, could there be issues with using it a la Progress M-34?
But I guess the cosmonaut training should have improved greatly since 1997.....
There was a change in flight rules for Progress since 1997. For ISS missions, the Progress is targeted at a point where the plane of the orbit is offset to that of ISS, so there is no chance of collision. I believe that even with a missing Kurs antenna, Progress can get to that offset point.
The first burn is targeted to result in an out of plane point one kilometer from ISS, and subsequent burns refine that out of plane point to within a few hundred meters.
This offset point is not be confused with the Ballistic Targeting Point.
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#95
by
asmi
on 24 Apr, 2013 16:07
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I guess the major issue right now isn't that the Kurs have failed, it's with whether TORU + cosmonaut can be trusted to control the Progress right from the start of fly-around, as opposed to during final approach.
I suppose they have been trained for such operation. Everything fails once in a while, so I think they should be ready for that.
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#96
by
Space Pete
on 24 Apr, 2013 16:53
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Uh-oh, didn't expect to log on and see this.
Hope they can get it fixed, or else that shiny new treadmill will be heading down to the drink.
Good job this was a two-day rendezvous from the start, because if it had been a six hour rendezvous, then they would have had to revert back to two days anyway.
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#97
by
Lee Jay
on 24 Apr, 2013 18:06
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Hope they can get it fixed, or else that shiny new treadmill will be heading down to the drink.
Is this confirmation that the mission is not salvageable without the deployment of that antenna?
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#98
by
Space Pete
on 24 Apr, 2013 18:22
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Is this confirmation that the mission is not salvageable without the deployment of that antenna?
No - not confirmed at this time - just my personal speculation.
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#99
by
mtakala24
on 24 Apr, 2013 18:24
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Picture of the antenna in question (or is it?) , and some commentary, on Space Station Live program:
And Plan C in case plan B doesn't 