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#100
by
Galactic Penguin SST
on 24 Apr, 2013 18:35
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Is this confirmation that the mission is not salvageable without the deployment of that antenna?
No - not confirmed at this time - just my personal speculation.
Russian reports seems to be completely opposite: RSC Energia chief Vitaly Lopota claimed that even without that antenna the spacecraft can still reach the 200 meter decision point, then
automatically dock to the ISS!
Probably I need to review those L2 documents to see which antenna is affected....
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#101
by
asmi
on 24 Apr, 2013 18:45
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Russian reports seems to be completely opposite: RSC Energia chief Vitaly Lopota claimed that even without that antenna the spacecraft can still reach the 200 meter decision point, then automatically dock to the ISS!
Probably I need to review those L2 documents to see which antenna is affected....
After reading some NK forum I've got the impression that the failed antenna is close-range antenna, if it's true then they would have no issues during rendezvous, and then switch to TORU if issue won't be fixed somehow. We probably need to wait a bit until the dust settles so we would get more accurate picture.
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#102
by
Galactic Penguin SST
on 24 Apr, 2013 18:48
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Picture of the antenna in question (of is it?) , and some commentary, on Space Station Live program:
Ah, so it's the 2ASF-VKA antenna that can't be deployed. This is used during the final approach to the ISS (it measures the pitch and yaw angles from the station's different Kurs antennas within 1 km from the station), so the spacecraft may simply maneuver towards the ISS, then let the cosmonaut take over control on the last km.
Some information about how Kurs works in French:
http://www.kosmonavtika.com/vaisseaux/kours/tech/1.html
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#103
by
PahTo
on 24 Apr, 2013 18:49
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Thanks Satori and dedead. I enjoyed the view of the flame trench and vehicle--could really see the turbopumps come up to flight speed.
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#104
by
Lee Jay
on 24 Apr, 2013 18:52
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Is this confirmation that the mission is not salvageable without the deployment of that antenna?
No - not confirmed at this time - just my personal speculation.
Russian reports seems to be completely opposite: RSC Energia chief Vitaly Lopota claimed that even without that antenna the spacecraft can still reach the 200 meter decision point, then automatically dock to the ISS!
Probably I need to review those L2 documents to see which antenna is affected....
Nice.
"Если даже антенна не откроется, то мы сможем войти в 200-метровую зону и в автоматическом режиме состыковаться."
Google translate:
"Even if the antenna is not open, we will be able to enter into a 200-meter area and automatically dock."
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#105
by
Danderman
on 24 Apr, 2013 19:19
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Ah, so it's the 2ASF-VKA antenna that can't be deployed. This is used during the final approach to the ISS (it measures the pitch and yaw angles from the station's different Kurs antennas within 1 km from the station), so the spacecraft may simply maneuver towards the ISS, then let the cosmonaut take over control on the last km.
Correct.
The problem is the translation from 1 kilometer out to the stationkeeping point where TORU is normally used (for off-nominal operations).
Energia will probably figure out a work-around, but I have no clue what it would be.
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#106
by
Nicolas PILLET
on 24 Apr, 2013 19:34
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Well the main issue currently is that with the Progress requiring manual control from at least several kilometers away, could there be issues with using it a la Progress M-34?
Progress M-05M was controlled manually since 1000km.
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#107
by
Nicolas PILLET
on 24 Apr, 2013 19:56
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2ASF1-M-VKA-03 antenna did not deployed immediately on Progress M-01M. Deployment was achieved after several attempts.
So, wait and see...
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#108
by
Lee Jay
on 24 Apr, 2013 20:36
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So, back to a nominal mission then!
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#109
by
Danderman
on 24 Apr, 2013 22:23
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So, back to a nominal mission then!
Off-nominal, but the prospects for cargo delivery are not that bad.
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#110
by
Lee Jay
on 24 Apr, 2013 23:20
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So, back to a nominal mission then!
Off-nominal, but the prospects for cargo delivery are not that bad.
If the antenna is deployed, what else is off nominal?
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#111
by
robertross
on 24 Apr, 2013 23:47
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So, back to a nominal mission then!
Off-nominal, but the prospects for cargo delivery are not that bad.
If the antenna is deployed, what else is off nominal?
I think you read Nicolas' post incorrectly. He was referring to a previous launch (M-01M), where antenna deployment was finally successful, not this one (yet).
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#112
by
Lee Jay
on 25 Apr, 2013 01:21
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So, back to a nominal mission then!
Off-nominal, but the prospects for cargo delivery are not that bad.
If the antenna is deployed, what else is off nominal?
I think you read Nicolas' post incorrectly. He was referring to a previous launch (M-01M), where antenna deployment was finally successful, not this one (yet).
Oops...I think you are correct.
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#113
by
russianhalo117
on 25 Apr, 2013 05:20
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So, back to a nominal mission then!
Off-nominal, but the prospects for cargo delivery are not that bad.
If the antenna is deployed, what else is off nominal?
I think you read Nicolas' post incorrectly. He was referring to a previous launch (M-01M), where antenna deployment was finally successful, not this one (yet).
2ASF-VKA antenna and that antennas systems have been verified total fail via Russian sources. Antenna is not drawing power since launch and 2ASF-VKA antenna failed health check due to no response to preprogrammed commands. At this time 2ASF-VKA antenna is not considered possible to use and exact reason is unknown. 2ASF-VKA antenna's deployment mechanism is believed source of failure but data from this mechanism was not properly received. Work is underway to determine if 2ASF-VKA antenna systems software is in need of reupload or revision. A final decision is expected within two to four hours on whether to mess with the software, delay docking a bit, not use 2ASF-VKA antenna, or proceed to ISS with problem and most likely use TORU near or under 1km.
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#114
by
Targeteer
on 25 Apr, 2013 07:45
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Houston had no update available for the crew on the Progress during the morning DPC--Moscow is still trouble shooting.
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#115
by
asmi
on 25 Apr, 2013 13:23
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According to NK forum EVA might be needed as this antenna might interfere with achieving hard dock (capture is still possible and in fact this is likely what would happen). Someone is proposing to use crowbar to tear this antenna apart
There are also mentioned that things like that had happened in the past.
If so that would be kinda cool to watch (I hope there will be coverage)
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#116
by
robertross
on 25 Apr, 2013 13:31
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According to NK forum EVA might be needed as this antenna might interfere with achieving hard dock (capture is still possible and in fact this is likely what would happen). Someone is proposing to use crowbar to tear this antenna apart There are also mentioned that things like that had happened in the past.
If so that would be kinda cool to watch (I hope there will be coverage)
What's wrong with using Dextre? I mean, this is a perfect opportunity to try something like this and avoid an EVA.
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#117
by
Space Pete
on 25 Apr, 2013 13:36
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Wow, this is getting exciting!
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#118
by
cneth
on 25 Apr, 2013 13:37
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What's wrong with using Dextre? I mean, this is a perfect opportunity to try something like this and avoid an EVA.
Even if they wanted to, could it actually reach that far?
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#119
by
asmi
on 25 Apr, 2013 13:38
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What's wrong with using Dextre? I mean, this is a perfect opportunity to try something like this and avoid an EVA.
I don't know. As far as I understand "soft-docked" Soyuz/Progress basically hangs on the probe and can sway around (I recall some docking videos which see quite a movement after soft-dock). Which could make robotics op quite dangerous if it sways wrong way duing op.
There are also mentioned that things like that had happened in the past.