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#40
by
Nick L.
on 26 Jul, 2013 04:09
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Well, "spacecraft separation" is a commonly used phrase, be it a cubesat or some massive, mysterious spy sat, so that's probably why they used that word. And like you said, "spacecraft" could be plural too, so it doesn't really say whether there is one or many.
"Space vehicle", on the other hand...
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#41
by
John-H
on 27 Jul, 2013 22:00
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Well, "spacecraft separation" is a commonly used phrase, be it a cubesat or some massive, mysterious spy sat, so that's probably why they used that word. And like you said, "spacecraft" could be plural too, so it doesn't really say whether there is one or many.
"Space vehicle", on the other hand...
If they are using a Heavy, doesn't it seem to mean that there is some one thing that is "heavy"? Would it make any sense to launch multiple lighter satellites on a heavy rather than launch them separately? Has this ever been done?
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#42
by
Jim
on 27 Jul, 2013 22:13
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If they are using a Heavy, doesn't it seem to mean that there is some one thing that is "heavy"? Would it make any sense to launch multiple lighter satellites on a heavy rather than launch them separately? Has this ever been done?
Many times but it is not applicable here.
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#43
by
Jim
on 27 Jul, 2013 22:15
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"Space vehicle", on the other hand...
Which is a bus and a payload, and NASA uses observatory in the same way
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#44
by
Nick L.
on 27 Jul, 2013 22:50
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Well, "spacecraft separation" is a commonly used phrase, be it a cubesat or some massive, mysterious spy sat, so that's probably why they used that word. And like you said, "spacecraft" could be plural too, so it doesn't really say whether there is one or many.
"Space vehicle", on the other hand...
If they are using a Heavy, doesn't it seem to mean that there is some one thing that is "heavy"? Would it make any sense to launch multiple lighter satellites on a heavy rather than launch them separately? Has this ever been done?
As Jim said, it has been done fairly often.
-Ariane 5 regularly launches two payloads at a time.
-Proton launches GLONASS spacecraft three at a time (the recent failure was one of these).
-Globalstar satellites are launched six at a time on Soyuz, and used to be launched four at a time on Delta II.
-Iridium satellites were launched five at a time on Delta II, and the next-gen Iridium satellites will be launched ten at a time (!) on Falcon 9 in the coming years.
-There was one Atlas V (in 2007) whose payload consisted entirely of multiple small satellites, instead of a single large one.
There are many other examples. Basically if you have the performance to spare and multiple spacecraft/payloads/satellites/etc. that are going to similar places, it can be done.
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#45
by
sdsds
on 27 Jul, 2013 23:57
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I think Jim may be making a veiled reference to something like "Misty" (KH-11) et al., where a second, high-visibility payload might be carried to distract attention away from the primary — more stealthy — vehicle. Hypothetically if that has ever been done, the USG probably now understands that amateur observers will prevent a similar ruse from being successful in the future.
Just for example, see:
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/3077830/ns/technology_and_science-space/t/spy-satellites-rise-faked-fall"A spy satellite’s rise ... and faked fall"
Amateurs could see what Russia missed, historian says
By Robert Windrem
July 12, 2001
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#46
by
William Graham
on 01 Aug, 2013 09:04
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As per today's SpaceFlightNow article, "Liftoff will be possible between 10 a.m. and 12 noon local time (1-3 p.m. EDT; 1700-1900 GMT)", still set for Aug 28th.
http://spaceflightnow.com/delta/d363/preps/#.UfnUxJK1GSo
From a quick glance at passes on Heavens-Above, the plane of USA-186's orbit seems to cross the launch site during the launch period. I don't know how to compute the exact in-plane time, but it is likely that the launch window won't open until at least about an hour into the period.
USA-186 (NROL-20) was the payload of the last Titan launch, conducted from Vandenberg in 2005, and is believed to be the operational satellite in the West plane of the KH-11 system, with USA-129 as its backup. A launch to the west plane would be consistent with the usual pattern of alternating between the planes - USA-224 is in the East plane.
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#47
by
Star One
on 01 Aug, 2013 17:34
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As per today's SpaceFlightNow article, "Liftoff will be possible between 10 a.m. and 12 noon local time (1-3 p.m. EDT; 1700-1900 GMT)", still set for Aug 28th.
http://spaceflightnow.com/delta/d363/preps/#.UfnUxJK1GSo
From a quick glance at passes on Heavens-Above, the plane of USA-186's orbit seems to cross the launch site during the launch period. I don't know how to compute the exact in-plane time, but it is likely that the launch window won't open until at least about an hour into the period.
USA-186 (NROL-20) was the payload of the last Titan launch, conducted from Vandenberg in 2005, and is believed to be the operational satellite in the West plane of the KH-11 system, with USA-129 as its backup. A launch to the west plane would be consistent with the usual pattern of alternating between the planes - USA-224 is in the East plane.
Do you believe that it will replace USA-186 as the main satellite with USA-129 being de-orbited and then USA-186 becoming the backup?
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#48
by
William Graham
on 02 Aug, 2013 00:15
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As per today's SpaceFlightNow article, "Liftoff will be possible between 10 a.m. and 12 noon local time (1-3 p.m. EDT; 1700-1900 GMT)", still set for Aug 28th.
http://spaceflightnow.com/delta/d363/preps/#.UfnUxJK1GSo
From a quick glance at passes on Heavens-Above, the plane of USA-186's orbit seems to cross the launch site during the launch period. I don't know how to compute the exact in-plane time, but it is likely that the launch window won't open until at least about an hour into the period.
USA-186 (NROL-20) was the payload of the last Titan launch, conducted from Vandenberg in 2005, and is believed to be the operational satellite in the West plane of the KH-11 system, with USA-129 as its backup. A launch to the west plane would be consistent with the usual pattern of alternating between the planes - USA-224 is in the East plane.
Do you believe that it will replace USA-186 as the main satellite with USA-129 being de-orbited and then USA-186 becoming the backup?
NROL-65 will become the prime, and USA-186 the backup.
I'm not sure what will happen to USA-129; there is no precedent for five KH-11s being in orbit at the same time. The current situation with four is actually quite rare - the only other time both planes have had backup satellites was between 2005 and 2008, before USA-116 was deorbited. There has never been a launch to a plane with a backup satellite
From a quick glance at launch and deorbit dates, most deorbits seem to happen around half a year before a replacement is due to be launched, so I would have expected USA-129 to have been deorbited by now. I have two theories for its continued operation; the NRO could be keeping it in service for as long as it is functional and returning useful images. Alternatively, since NROL-65 is the last KH-11 and if it fails no replacement will be forthcoming, 129 might just be sticking around until L-65 reaches orbit safely.
For the record, USA-129 has had a longer operational lifespan than any other KH-11; it was the prime (indeed, only) satellite in the West plane for a little under nine years, and has been in orbit for almost 17. USA-116 lasted about 13 years, with around six as the prime satellite in the East plane, before its deorbit in 2008. In addition to USA-129, the other satellites in service at the moment are USA-161, 186 and 224, which have been up for a few months short of 12, 8 and 2 years respectively.
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#49
by
Targeteer
on 02 Aug, 2013 04:30
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It will be very interesting to see what happens to USA-186's orbit if NROL-65 is successfully launched. Following USA-224's launch, USA-161 was maneuvered into an unprecedented, low and almost circular orbit for the type (from Heavens Above)
USA-129 310 x 773 km, 97.6°
USA-161 386 x 392 km, 97.0°
USA-186 260 x 1,026 km, 97.9°
USA-224 258 x 1,025 km, 97.9°
for historical reference the orbits for earlier birds in the class (from wikipedia and I know that's dangerous)
USA-27 300 km × 1000 km, i=98°
USA-33 300 km × 1000 km, i=98°
USA-86 408 km × 931 km, i=97.7°
USA-116 405 km × 834 km, i=97.7°
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#50
by
kevin-rf
on 02 Aug, 2013 13:31
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USA-161 386 x 392 km, 97.0°
I wonder if it has some sort of extended mission that provides global high res coverage, thus not having to expend fuel to take a closer look at objects of interest.
It would not be as high as the lower ~260km perigee other vehicles in the family provide, but those orbits provide limited high res coverage to specific latitudes.
It would also provide a sneaky way to take a hi res look at areas of interest without tipping your hand to people tracking these satellites.
But I am way off topic, we can speculate all day long about what they will do with USA-129. Honestly, I would let the plane drift to early morning, shortly after sunrise to catch dawn activities.
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#51
by
vapour_nudge
on 07 Aug, 2013 12:31
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#52
by
kevin-rf
on 07 Aug, 2013 13:07
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#53
by
Prober
on 07 Aug, 2013 13:14
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#54
by
William Graham
on 07 Aug, 2013 13:32
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Do we know yet whether this launch is using the composite (Delta) or metallic (Titan) fairing? I believe L-49 used the composite.
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#55
by
Jim
on 07 Aug, 2013 14:01
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it will be composite
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#56
by
averagespacejoe
on 20 Aug, 2013 21:54
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I know I am being picky but is there any image of the Digital Space Patch bigger and clearer than the one provided by Spaceflightnow for NROL-65. It is so hard to make out any detail and once it is blown up it becomes blurry. 140x139 pixels doesn't cut it.
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#57
by
c3infinity
on 20 Aug, 2013 22:22
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I know I am being picky but is there any image of the Digital Space Patch bigger and clearer than the one provided by Spaceflightnow for NROL-65. It is so hard to make out any detail and once it is blown up it becomes blurry. 140x139 pixels doesn't cut it.
Better, I hope? Doing this on my phone, so hopefully the attachments come out right.
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#58
by
averagespacejoe
on 20 Aug, 2013 22:28
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Holy cow that is gorgeous where do you find those?
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#59
by
robertross
on 20 Aug, 2013 23:36
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I know I am being picky but is there any image of the Digital Space Patch bigger and clearer than the one provided by Spaceflightnow for NROL-65. It is so hard to make out any detail and once it is blown up it becomes blurry. 140x139 pixels doesn't cut it.
Better, I hope? Doing this on my phone, so hopefully the attachments come out right.
Spectacular, thanks!
"Buttercup"...lol
