Soyuz replacement?

[Elmar Moelzer]

I found this rather strange article today. I think there were some mistakes in the translation from Russian somewhere. E.g. the project cost seems way to high. Does anyone here have more clues about this?
Sorry, if this has already been posted elsewhere and I missed it.
http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2013-01/14/soyuz-replacement

[smoliarm]

You are right, there is a mistake in the article.

They say:

>>The budget for the new rocket and capsule has been set at 2.1 trillion
>>rubles (£43 billion), according to the programme details on the Roscomos
>>website.

But the link - programme details - leads to the document, I'd say pretty global:

>>The State Program of the Russian Federation
>>"Space activities of Russia in 2013 - 2020 years"

In this document the sum of 2.1 trillion rubles named as the WHOLE budget for ALL of the Russian space projects in this period. With respect to the new Russian manned spacecraft, it is just one of the the priority items in a pretty long list.

One more thing from this doc - it states:

"Общий объём финансового обеспечения государственной программы составляет 2,1 трлн. рублей, включая и внебюджетные источники. "

"The total amount of financial support for the State Program is 2.1 trillion. rubles, including extra-budgetary sources."
(I would use here "non-budgetary", but may be Google is right  )

I have no idea what these "extra-budgetary sources" mean, but it sounds like the government funding will be LESS than "2.1 trillion".

So, the bottom line is a confusion of TOTAL Russian Space budget with a funding for a specific project.

By the way, even for the whole "Space activities of Russia in 2013 - 2020 years" these 2.1 trillion look pretty big. Converted to $ per year, this is about $ 8.7 billion/yr. IIRC, the current budget of RosCosmos is more like $ 1 billion/yr.
But, compared with NASA budget, it's modest

[Elmar Moelzer]

Yes, that makes a lot more sense then. The budget seemed way to big for just the soyuz replacement.
Thanks!

[patchfree]

This article is a piece of... 
Roscosmos had never announced a replacement of the Soyuz spacecraft. Only some preliminary studies ("conceptual design") has been made and a "technical design" is in progress for a perspective transport system of new generation (PTS NG) made by RSC Energia. But the development "in metal" is not already funded.

And the article part about Mars exploration was also strange: no relation between an automatic mission (Exomars) to Mars by ESA and Roscosmos and the soyuz...

[Hyperion5]

This article is a peace of... 
Roscosmos had never announced a replacement of the Soyuz spacecraft. Only some preliminary studies ("conceptual design") has been made and a "technical design" is in progress for a perspective transport system of new generation (PTS NG) made by RSC Energia. But the development "in metal" is not already funded.

And the article part about Mars exploration was also strange: no relation between an automatic mission (Exomars) to Mars by ESA and Roscosmos and the soyuz...

The PTK-NP is not being funded?  That'd be news to Anatoly Zak, who has quite a bit of news on the new Russian spaceship meant to replace the Soyuz.  The latest is that the design is being finalized this year and that they've already done an all-metal mockup of the prospective vehicle. 

http://www.russianspaceweb.com/ptk_2012.html

"Completion of design

At the end of December, the leadership of RKK Energia reported that the company had completed the design of the PTK spacecraft and had planned to start manufacturing prototypes and flight hardware for the next-generation spacecraft in the following year. (617) RKK Energia apparently finished the work despite an addendum to the formal technical assignment issued by Roskosmos on April 12 and reportedly giving the company until mid-2013 to address all the requirements."

[manboy]

I found this rather strange article today. I think there were some mistakes in the translation from Russian somewhere. E.g. the project cost seems way to high. Does anyone here have more clues about this?
Sorry, if this has already been posted elsewhere and I missed it.
http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2013-01/14/soyuz-replacement

Wired UK never seems to properly research space stories. Here's some useful information.

http://www.russianspaceweb.com/ptk_2012.html

[fregate]

@Elmar
It already had been mentioned that RSC ENERGIA completed DETAILED TECNICAL DESIGN of  PTK NP spacecraft last December.

 The only missing piece is LV, but most likely it would be launched on Angara 5.2 (aka Angara 5P) for LEO missions or on unnamed LV (project codename Amur) to be designed by Khrunichev Centre for Lunar missions.
 
I would like to advise you to use FX exchange calculator to re-calculate figures in US$ before jumping GUN and making sensational announcements. 

[Elmar Moelzer]

@Elmar
It already had been mentioned that RSC ENERGIA completed DETAILED TECNICAL DESIGN of  PTK NP spacecraft last December.

 The only missing piece is LV, but most likely it would be launched on Angara 5.2 (aka Angara 5P) for LEO missions or on unnamed LV (project codename Amur) to be designed by Khrunichev Centre for Lunar missions.
 
I would like to advise you to use FX exchange calculator to re-calculate figures in US$ before jumping GUN and making sensational announcements. 

Please re-read what I said!
I did NOT make an announcement! I simply inquired about the validity of the article that I posted here. I even mentioned that I doubted the truthfullness of the article.
I dont speak Russian and I did not really trust Google translate. That is why I posted this here.

[fregate]

Elmar, my sincere apologies if I offended you.
I added my comments on article web site.
Please note that there are dedicated thread for New Generation Russian Manned spacecraft as well a for a corresponded Launch Vehicle.
 

[patchfree]

Up to now Roscosmos has not funded the development of the PTS NG. Only was funded the technical design which will be completed soon.
We are waiting for that as well as the funding of a launch vehicle for it.

[fregate]

Up to now Roscosmos has not funded the development of the PTS NG. Only was funded the technical design which will be completed soon.
We are waiting for that as well as the funding of a launch vehicle for it.

FYI RSC Energia already completed Detailed Technical Design in December 2012.
Roscosmos Technical Council would perform a Critical Design Review of Energia PTK NG (Program PPTS) Detailed Technical Design on 1st Of Feb 2013.
Watch tender announcement in Feb-Mar - it would be more details about funding if Roscosmos choose to go ahead with a program.
Let's move this conversation to existing thread about Russian New Generation Manned Spacecraft. 

[patchfree]

Up to now Roscosmos has not funded the development of the PTS NG. Only was funded the technical design which will be completed soon.
We are waiting for that as well as the funding of a launch vehicle for it.

FYI RSC Energia already completed Detailed Technical Design in December 2012.
Roscosmos Technical Council would perform a Critical Design Review of Energia PTK NG (Program PPTS) Detailed Technical Design on 1st Of Feb 2013.
Watch tender announcement in Feb-Mar - it would be more details about funding if Roscosmos choose to go ahead with a program.
Let's move this conversation to existing thread about Russian New Generation Manned Spacecraft. 

Yes I know. But the important piece of text is "if Roscosmos choose to go ahead with a program". I hope so...

[Prober]

Up to now Roscosmos has not funded the development of the PTS NG. Only was funded the technical design which will be completed soon.
We are waiting for that as well as the funding of a launch vehicle for it.

FYI RSC Energia already completed Detailed Technical Design in December 2012.
Roscosmos Technical Council would perform a Critical Design Review of Energia PTK NG (Program PPTS) Detailed Technical Design on 1st Of Feb 2013.
Watch tender announcement in Feb-Mar - it would be more details about funding if Roscosmos choose to go ahead with a program.
Let's move this conversation to existing thread about Russian New Generation Manned Spacecraft. 

Yes I know. But the important piece of text is "if Roscosmos choose to go ahead with a program". I hope so...

got a bad feeling funds will be deverted to getting launch areas ready.

[Elmar Moelzer]

Elmar, my sincere apologies if I offended you.
I added my comments on article web site.
Please note that there are dedicated thread for New Generation Russian Manned spacecraft as well a for a corresponded Launch Vehicle.

Dont worry, I sometimes have problems expressing myself. My wording may have been missleading.
I am not that familiar with future Russian LVs and manned spacecraft, so their designations dont tell me much. Also my post was more about the article than the LV.

[fregate]

Elmar, my sincere apologies if I offended you.
I added my comments on article web site.
Please note that there are dedicated thread for New Generation Russian Manned spacecraft as well a for a corresponded Launch Vehicle.

Dont worry, I sometimes have problems expressing myself. My wording may have been missleading.
I am not that familiar with future Russian LVs and manned spacecraft, so their designations dont tell me much. Also my post was more about the article than the LV.

@Elmar, FYI links from this forum are below:
Russia to Develop a New-Generation Manned Spacecraft
Russian Manned Moon Architecture
Russia to Develop Rocket for New-Generation Manned Spacecraft

[Elmar Moelzer]

Thanks, fregate!