Author Topic: LIVE: ESA and NASA Announcement on Orion SM - Jan 16, 2013  (Read 34506 times)

Offline Lars_J

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Re: LIVE: ESA and NASA Announcement on Orion SM - Jan 16, 2013
« Reply #60 on: 01/16/2013 06:32 PM »
Sadly, I think this announcement is a significant nail in the coffin of Orion. (not the first) I am doubtful that EM-1 will ever fly.
Why? The ATV is proven tech, better than the cracked hull of Orion! Can you substantiate your vision?

It is not a technology issue, mostly a political one. With Orion being such a mismanaged project, adding foreign contributors adds cost and complexity which will make it even more likely that Orion will be cancelled before first manned flight. My opinion only, but quite a few share it. See the discussion in this thread: http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=30427.0

Offline mr. mark

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Re: LIVE: ESA and NASA Announcement on Orion SM - Jan 16, 2013
« Reply #61 on: 01/16/2013 06:50 PM »
After having been around for the NASA moon missions as a youngster, I was hoping that this press event would be the opening salvo toward BEO exploration. Reading some of the reports as to the weight issue with Orion, I am deeply saddened. Of course, the space program is not about me or my dreams. Here's hoping that NASA can come up with something to remedy this situation.

Offline sdsds

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Re: LIVE: ESA and NASA Announcement on Orion SM - Jan 16, 2013
« Reply #62 on: 01/16/2013 07:07 PM »
[EFT-1 Orion will] use doublers over the small cracks

Good to have this mentioned! Of course they will complete the pressure vessel testing (up to the full pressure originally planned) once the repair is in place, right? Was there any mention of how this changes costs or schedule for EFT-1?
-- sdsds --

Offline ChileVerde

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Re: LIVE: ESA and NASA Announcement on Orion SM - Jan 16, 2013
« Reply #63 on: 01/16/2013 08:22 PM »

At the start of the presentation, Mr. Gerstenmaier said that the Europeans would develop the first Service Module and portions of the second Service Module.

Portions?
"I canít tell you which asteroid, but there will be one in 2025," Bolden asserted.

Offline Lars_J

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Re: LIVE: ESA and NASA Announcement on Orion SM - Jan 16, 2013
« Reply #64 on: 01/16/2013 08:43 PM »

At the start of the presentation, Mr. Gerstenmaier said that the Europeans would develop the first Service Module and portions of the second Service Module.

Portions?

[Lando Calrissian]This deal is getting worse all the time![/Lando Calrissian]  :D

Offline Khadgars

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Re: LIVE: ESA and NASA Announcement on Orion SM - Jan 16, 2013
« Reply #65 on: 01/16/2013 08:53 PM »
After having been around for the NASA moon missions as a youngster, I was hoping that this press event would be the opening salvo toward BEO exploration. Reading some of the reports as to the weight issue with Orion, I am deeply saddened. Of course, the space program is not about me or my dreams. Here's hoping that NASA can come up with something to remedy this situation.

I don't know, but to me the weight issue doesn't seem like a big problem.  EFT-1 will fly as scheduled as well as EM-1.  EM-2 isn't scheduled until 2021, 7 years after the first test flight of EFT-1 which should provide most of the information they need to shed the excess weight.  Just my opinion of course.

Offline yg1968

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Re: LIVE: ESA and NASA Announcement on Orion SM - Jan 16, 2013
« Reply #66 on: 01/16/2013 09:28 PM »

At the start of the presentation, Mr. Gerstenmaier said that the Europeans would develop the first Service Module and portions of the second Service Module.

Portions?

They explained that the spare parts for EM-1 that are not used for that mission would be incorporated in EM-2.
« Last Edit: 01/16/2013 09:40 PM by yg1968 »

Offline ChileVerde

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Re: LIVE: ESA and NASA Announcement on Orion SM - Jan 16, 2013
« Reply #67 on: 01/16/2013 11:58 PM »

At the start of the presentation, Mr. Gerstenmaier said that the Europeans would develop the first Service Module and portions of the second Service Module.

Portions?

They explained that the spare parts for EM-1 that are not used for that mission would be incorporated in EM-2.

OK, so ESA will develop and build all of the EM-1 and EM-2 SMs, but portions of the EM-2 SM will be developed and built where left-over spare parts from the EM-1 SM aren't available. I think I've got that.
"I canít tell you which asteroid, but there will be one in 2025," Bolden asserted.

Offline Chris Bergin

Day job got in the way, so only was able to start writing in the last hour.

Article for this:

http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2013/01/orions-atv-deal-esa-astro-em-2-mission/

Offline Rocket Science

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Re: LIVE: ESA and NASA Announcement on Orion SM - Jan 16, 2013
« Reply #69 on: 01/17/2013 12:43 AM »
Nice article Chris! :)  Who knows if having ESA on board will have any influence in a more aggressive flight schedule for Orion on SLS in the future...
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Offline AbeJ

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Re: LIVE: ESA and NASA Announcement on Orion SM - Jan 16, 2013
« Reply #70 on: 01/17/2013 12:57 AM »
After having been around for the NASA moon missions as a youngster, I was hoping that this press event would be the opening salvo toward BEO exploration. Reading some of the reports as to the weight issue with Orion, I am deeply saddened. Of course, the space program is not about me or my dreams. Here's hoping that NASA can come up with something to remedy this situation.

I don't know, but to me the weight issue doesn't seem like a big problem.  EFT-1 will fly as scheduled as well as EM-1.  EM-2 isn't scheduled until 2021, 7 years after the first test flight of EFT-1 which should provide most of the information they need to shed the excess weight.  Just my opinion of course.

Yea, that's basically what Geyer said.  He compared it to Apollo starting out on the heavy side and evolving into being able to carry a buggy to the moon on later missions.

Its a good thing all the pessimistic naysayers on this forum don't work on my team or we'd never get anything done!

Online Lar

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Re: LIVE: ESA and NASA Announcement on Orion SM - Jan 16, 2013
« Reply #71 on: 01/17/2013 01:01 AM »
OK, so ESA will develop and build all of the EM-1 and EM-2 SMs, but portions of the EM-2 SM will be developed and built where left-over spare parts from the EM-1 SM aren't available. I think I've got that.
Am I the only person who finds that a bit... whacky?
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Offline Fuji

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Re: LIVE: ESA and NASA Announcement on Orion SM - Jan 16, 2013
« Reply #72 on: 01/17/2013 01:14 AM »
ATV 2.0
http://blogs.esa.int/atv/2013/01/16/atv-2-0/

Quote
To push Orion through space, NASA will supply the ATV service module with an extra engine, none other than a recycled Space Shuttle thruster. This engine will supply around 26 kN of thrust in addition to eight smaller engines as backup. The smaller engines will supply a total of 490 N, enough to get Orion back to Earth.

Attitude control will be done by yet more thrusters for which the design needs to be finalised, but think in terms of 20+ small engines working together.

Although ATVís solar panel configuration will remain, ESA will give them a significant upgrade. Slightly shorter but wider, Orionís solar panels will use Gallium Arsenide technology and supply more electricity, ≠up to 11 kW, or enough to power the energy needs of a typical household. These newer solar panels offer 30% efficiency converting solar energy; ATVís current solar panels only manage around 17%.

Offline ChileVerde

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Re: LIVE: ESA and NASA Announcement on Orion SM - Jan 16, 2013
« Reply #73 on: 01/17/2013 01:16 AM »
OK, so ESA will develop and build all of the EM-1 and EM-2 SMs, but portions of the EM-2 SM will be developed and built where left-over spare parts from the EM-1 SM aren't available. I think I've got that.
Am I the only person who finds that a bit... whacky?

Certainly not me. It seems all so clear...
"I canít tell you which asteroid, but there will be one in 2025," Bolden asserted.

Offline wkann



Not to go of topic, but since this video shows Orionís new ATV Service Module, it can't be that old. So why does NASA keep showing SLS with a painted core stage? I thought they were going to keep the tank orange like on shuttle and Delta IV. Is it still a dumb publicity stunt?
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Offline Lars_J

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Re: LIVE: ESA and NASA Announcement on Orion SM - Jan 16, 2013
« Reply #75 on: 01/17/2013 04:34 AM »
Yes, still a publicity invention to invoke Saturn V.

BTW, that video (nice BTW) does highlight the incredible complexity of the parachute system... Here are the steps
1) Drogues
2) Bigger Drogues
3) Tiny drogues to pull out...
4) ... The main parachutes.

Wow, four different drogue/chute systems!?!? At some point with that many systems you are just increasing the odds of a part failing instead of increasing robustness.
« Last Edit: 01/17/2013 04:35 AM by Lars_J »

Offline woods170

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Re: LIVE: ESA and NASA Announcement on Orion SM - Jan 16, 2013
« Reply #76 on: 01/17/2013 07:24 AM »
All images: Credit NASA. Supplied by ESA

Orion and notional mission module on NEA mission.
« Last Edit: 01/17/2013 09:09 AM by woods170 »

Offline woods170

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Re: LIVE: ESA and NASA Announcement on Orion SM - Jan 16, 2013
« Reply #77 on: 01/17/2013 07:24 AM »
All images: credit NASA. Supplied by ESA
« Last Edit: 01/17/2013 09:09 AM by woods170 »

Offline woods170

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Re: LIVE: ESA and NASA Announcement on Orion SM - Jan 16, 2013
« Reply #78 on: 01/17/2013 07:25 AM »
All images: credit NASA. Supplied by ESA
« Last Edit: 01/17/2013 09:09 AM by woods170 »

Offline woods170

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Re: LIVE: ESA and NASA Announcement on Orion SM - Jan 16, 2013
« Reply #79 on: 01/17/2013 07:26 AM »
All images: credit NASA. Supplied by ESA
« Last Edit: 01/17/2013 09:09 AM by woods170 »

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