Golden Spike announce Phase A for commercial lunar landing missions

[spectre9]

Modern America might have better technology but 1960s America had all the money.

We all know which one counts.

[KelvinZero]

In the context of this thread, a repeat of what we did in the 60s does not count. It is certainly not commercial and historically not sustainable. therefore..

..better technology?

[sanman]

I think that arguably, as more nations advance across economic thresholds, there will be more aspirants for going to the Moon. So that means Golden Spike's market prospects will be increasing, not decreasing. (Well, if you're at zero now, then the only place to go is up)

Seems like all they need is that first lucky break to get themselves started, and then after that the costs will keep going down significantly.

[Rugoz]

China will be able to offer a seat for much less, no dev. costs to pay for.
Much like malaysia and south korea were able to buy a flight to the ISS for 25m.

The only chance i see for golden spike is to launch the rocket in the country which is the customer and offer significant technology transfer. Both are unlikely to happen.

[Rocket Science]

Modern America might have better technology but 1960s America had all the money.

We all know which one counts.

What does exist is a historical engineering database which did not exist prior to the 1960’s. They had to invent it as they went along and incur the massive costs in a small time frame.  Now the can select, refine or discard various methodologies and or applications...

[douglas100]

Seems like all they need is that first lucky break to get themselves started, and then after that the costs will keep going down significantly.

What they actually need to get started is a large investment from some source and a believable customer base. Once they've got that, the discussion of what their architecture they use starts to have some reality.

There's no doubt, of course, that given sufficient funds, it can be done.

[Nelson Bridwell]

My thoughts:

(1) The key is landing orders from customers.  Without that, nothing happens.  Are there potential customers?  I think so.  I  doubt that Stern and associates would be wasting years of their careers on a very remote gamble.  I have no idea who they are really targeting.  For all I know, it could be a backdoor opportunity for NASA to save face in 2025...

(2) It has been a half century since the Apollo LEM was designed, constructed, tested and flown.  Many of those employees went on to work on other aerospace projects such as the space shuttle, the F-14 Tomcat, the B-2 stealth bomber, and the RQ-4 Global Hawk over the intervening years, and newer employees who worked with them learned their methods and discipline.

[Nelson Bridwell]

Bobby Block with the win on that score.

To me it feels quite ironic that Bobby was so instrumental in killing off America's manned lunar landing program, and now is promoting a scheme that appears to be so much riskier and tenuous than Constellation...

[swampcat]

For all I know, it could be a backdoor opportunity for NASA to save face in 2025...

Considering the background of some of the Golden Spike team this doesn't seem all that outlandish. Perhaps they know something that the rest of us don't about possible discontent among NASA management concerning HSF and lunar exploration.

If they can beat NASA's program to the punch wouldn't NASA be obligated to use Golden Spike's services? Assuming they can of course.

No doubt that's a big assumption.

[spectre9]

It's in the law.

Commercial capability exists NASA has to use it first.

Part of new reforms to space acts.

NASA still has to want to go to the moon which means the president has to want to go to the moon.

Obama doesn't want to go. That's the end of it.

The next president might not be so anti-Lunar though.

[Jason1701]

Bobby Block with the win on that score.

To me it feels quite ironic that Bobby was so instrumental in killing off America's manned lunar landing program, and now is promoting a scheme that appears to be so much riskier and tenuous than Constellation...

GS is risking many things, but public money is not among them.

[Nelson Bridwell]

GS is risking many things, but public money is not among them.

By riskier, I refer to technical risk of failure from multiple launches and operating with reduced safety margins in order to squeeze missions into the smallest possible budget.

And to the contrary, manned lunar missions are beyond the financial reach of commercial entities and limited to the realm of tax dollars.  Possibly not US tax dollars, but GS income will be almost entirely governmental.

[KelvinZero]

Obama doesn't want to go. That's the end of it.

The next president might not be so anti-Lunar though.

My interpretation is that Obama is anti-Constellation/SLS, pro commercial, pro tech development. Everything he has said on the moon/asteroid/mars front is just painting a story to allow commercial and tech development now, and canceling Constellation.

(ps no one is pretending Constellation was ever affordable anymore, so I have a lot of names for its political backers and pro-Lunar is not one of them)

[simonbp]

My interpretation is that Obama is anti-Constellation/SLS, pro commercial, pro tech development.

No, it's more accurate to say, "Obama is anti-that-big-program-that-Bush-started". Just as Bush was fairly anti-ISS and canceled large segments of it, because it was a Clinton program. And Clinton tried to kill Freedom because it was a Bush/Regan program. Get the picture? COTS/CRS/CCDEV started under Bush too, but the current administration likes to ignore that and claim it's theirs.

At any rate, the current administration is irrelevant. NASA is probably not going to sign up with GSC until a critical mass of other customers has, and that's not going to happen for a while. Indeed, the timing might be such that whoever the next president is can sign up in their first year and claim it was their idea...

[JohnFornaro]

Re: cost

You all forget that the 1.5 billion includes amortization, and is not the cost of a single mission. After 7 or 8 missions presumably the cost could come down without any tech developments.

That wasn't one hundred percent clear from their public statements to date.  Still, one would hope that should they launch the first one successfully, that subsequent ones would cost less.

Or you may have been sarcastic, which just wastes time and bandwidth.

The real waste of time and bandwidth and real money, is powerpoint after powerpoint and study after study, none of which result in hardware and actual missions.  Perhaps you prefer the endless page after page of how block 1 is better than block 1a  because of the differences between the rs25d's and the rs25e's, and so forth and so on.

If you don't like a bit of sarcastic humor,  which shouldn't take more than a second to read, hit the pagedown key. 

As to "pragmatic" lunar sites.  At present, this is a marketing term only, and has not been clarified publicly by GS.

I personally like that they are talking with NGC.

Total waste of fishing line...

LOL.

[CNYMike]

My interpretation is that Obama is anti-Constellation/SLS, pro commercial, pro tech development.

No, it's more accurate to say, "Obama is anti-that-big-program-that-Bush-started". Just as Bush was fairly anti-ISS and canceled large segments of it, because it was a Clinton program. And Clinton tried to kill Freedom because it was a Bush/Regan program. Get the picture? COTS/CRS/CCDEV started under Bush too, but the current administration likes to ignore that and claim it's theirs.

And let's not also forget that from the beginning, CxP was criticized on several fronts:

1.  The desitination was wrong.  "We've been to the Moon."  An asteroid was one of the alternatives.

2.  The Ares rockets were wrong.  A shuttle derived launcher would be better.

3.  NASA even launching people was wrong.  It should research technology the private secotr would use.

And so, between President Obama's nerdier impulses (and being freinds with [genuflect]Elon Musk[/genuflect]) and the push-back from Congress, we now have a pastiche of anti-Constellation alternatives that are only just now bearing fruit.  Point is a lot of smart people were "anti-Moon" before Obama came along.  He just agreed with them.  I think he deserves a little slack on that one.

At any rate, the current administration is irrelevant. NASA is probably not going to sign up with GSC until a critical mass of other customers has, and that's not going to happen for a while. Indeed, the timing might be such that whoever the next president is can sign up in their first year and claim it was their idea...

I just hope it's without another row like the one we took to get here in the first place.  Nothing gets done while politicians bicker!  Ok, less than normal, but you get the point.  It might be if GS is given cislunar space (and some Babylon EML-2 resupply) while SLS and Orion goes farther.  But that's down the road.

[Chris Bergin]

No politics on here guys. It's a quick way to lose your post.

[Chris Bergin]

THE GOLDEN SPIKE COMPANY LAUNCHES LUNAR EXPLORATION CROWDFUNDING CAMPAIGN
 
BOULDER, CO (February 13, 2013) – Golden Spike – a private company led by former NASA executives offering human expeditions to the Moon for nations, corporations, and individuals – today kicked off a 10-week Indiegogo crowdfunding campaign to raise $240,000 – representing each mile on the way to the Moon.
 
The drive aims to raise awareness about Golden Spike, accelerate Golden Spike’s plans for innovative public participation in its activities, and give the global community of space enthusiasts and the general public a chance to help fuel Golden Spike’s human Lunar exploration mission.
 
"In the weeks after we unveiled the company last December, we were inundated with emails and letters and tweets from thousands of people asking how they can help. We think this Indiegogo campaign is an absolutely awesome way to get the public more involved in helping grow our mission,” said Golden Spike President and CEO Dr. Alan Stern. “Golden Spike is building a program that is all about connecting people to Lunar exploration,” he added.
 
“We hope that this campaign and all the projects it enables will generate a degree of participation in space exploration that has never existed before” said Gerry Griffin, former Apollo Flight Director and the Chairman of Golden Spike’s Board of Directors.
 
Indiegogo campaign contributions to Golden Spike will allow Golden Spike to create interactive media products, apps, and an Olympics Movement-style membership program for children and adults to take part in Golden Spike activities as insiders. They will also help fund Golden Spike’s Lunar expedition studies and other activities. 
 
“We want to make it possible for people to follow Golden Spike’s development and space missions just like people follow Hollywood, NASCAR, and professional sports,” said Dr. Stern.
 
Golden Spike’s campaign is being launched through Indiegogo.com (www.Indiegogo.com). The public can get involved at different levels with a range of perks and incentives offered at each level. People can connect to the campaign on Golden Spike’s website (www.goldenspikecompany.com) as well as through its Facebook, Twitter and LinkedIn pages.
 
The Golden Spike Company is a private business planning a series of expeditions to explore the Moon by nations, corporations, and individuals from around the globe, beginning in 2020. Led by former NASA leaders, Golden Spike includes experienced space-industry veterans, world-renowned planetary scientists, and senior space engineers. The company estimates each two-person Lunar expedition to cost $1.5 billion – a breakthrough making human expeditions possible for the cost of present-day robotic missions on the Moon.
 
For more information on Golden Spike, go to www.goldenspikecompanycom.
 
To view Golden Spike’s Indiegogo campaign, visit: http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/313086/x/2114811?show_todos=true.

[StephenB]

Chris, you are fast!

[QuantumG]

So.. they're broke.

I know.. we knew that already, but now the rest of the world does too.