Baiterek Project Officially Ends With Kazakh Pullout

[russianhalo117]

End of Baiterek?

On Dec. 5, 2012, the head of the Kazakh space agency, Kazkosmos, Talgat Musabaev told the Interfax new agency that his country had dropped the plans to bring the Angara rocket to Baikonur under the Baiterek project due to its escalating cost and the refusal of Russia to participate in its funding. Russian plans to build a launch pad for the Angara rocket in Vostochny Cosmodrome on its own territory further undermined economic feasibility of Baiterek.

According to Musabaev, Kazakh officials were conducting serious negotiations to form a new joint venture with Russia around a launch vehicle other than Angara, such as Zenit. Built in Ukraine, the Zenit rocket already had an operational launch pad in Baikonur, however, a Russian firm RKK Energia recently publicized plans to develop a Sodruzhestvo (Alliance) heavy-lifting launch vehicle from components of the Zenit rocket.

Copied from Russian Space Web website's home page.
www.russianspaceweb.com/baikonur_energia_250.html#end
More links added in my next posts

Edited by mod to correct the link

[Danderman]

Kazakhstan seems to have a short sighted approach to the resources given to them at the collapse of the USSR. They should have grabbed a piece of ILS and LaunchLaunch and they should have invested in upgrading Proton and Zenit to make them more competitive (ie funding a LH2 upper stage).

When the Russians leave Baikonur, Kazakhstan will have nothing.

[russianhalo117]

Kazakhstan seems to have a short sighted approach to the resources given to them at the collapse of the USSR. They should have grabbed a piece of ILS and LaunchLaunch and they should have invested in upgrading Proton and Zenit to make them more competitive (ie funding a LH2 upper stage).

When the Russians leave Baikonur, Kazakhstan will have nothing.

Ukraine still plans to operate Zenit from Baikonur since it is not planned to erect a new launch complex at other Russian Cosmodromes. Ukraine has also considered launching Cyclone-IV from here for a while as a backup to the increasingly unstable Dnepr Program which recently underwent major leadership changes by order of Russian Agencies involved in the Dnepr Program. Ukraine also has developed an Energia-K ILV equivalent planned for use at Site-110 and Processing at Site 112 complexes.

[Jim]

Kazakhstan seems to have a short sighted approach to the resources given to them at the collapse of the USSR. They should have grabbed a piece of ILS and LaunchLaunch

How could they "grab" a piece?  They had no companies involved.

[russianhalo117]

Here are some links Anatoly Zak of RSW sent me (a subscription is required for the Interfax links):
http://www.interfax.co.uk/kazakhstan-news/kazakhstan-gives-up-on-angara-launcher-project-at-baikunur-kazkosmos/
Mr. Zaks second source:
http://www.vz.ru/news/2012/12/5/610309.html
-----
Here is a semi-related Zenit Article
http://www.interfax.co.uk/kazakhstan-news/kazakhstan-to-stop-russias-lease-of-zenith-launch-complex-at-baikonur-kazkosmos/

If someone has a subscription to Interfax's UK Service please post both articles content in a new post so all can read. Please paste the link withe corresponding article.
Many Thanks,
RH117

[Prober]

Here are some links Anatoly Zak of RSW sent me (a subscription is required for the Interfax links):
http://www.interfax.co.uk/kazakhstan-news/kazakhstan-gives-up-on-angara-launcher-project-at-baikunur-kazkosmos/
Mr. Zaks second source:
http://www.vz.ru/news/2012/12/5/610309.html
-----
Here is a semi-related Zenit Article
http://www.interfax.co.uk/kazakhstan-news/kazakhstan-to-stop-russias-lease-of-zenith-launch-complex-at-baikonur-kazkosmos/

If someone has a subscription to Interfax's UK Service please post both articles content in a new post so all can read. Please paste the link withe corresponding article.
Many Thanks,
RH117

looks like all the deals might fall apart now.   I can't read the full story but this might be a good one.

Ukraine could disrupt Sea Launch, Land Launch schedule – source

[Prober]

Kazakhstan seems to have a short sighted approach to the resources given to them at the collapse of the USSR. They should have grabbed a piece of ILS and LaunchLaunch and they should have invested in upgrading Proton and Zenit to make them more competitive (ie funding a LH2 upper stage).

When the Russians leave Baikonur, Kazakhstan will have nothing.

would have to check this but believe Kazakhstan has some interest in land launch. 

[Danderman]

Kazakhstan seems to have a short sighted approach to the resources given to them at the collapse of the USSR. They should have grabbed a piece of ILS and LaunchLaunch

How could they "grab" a piece?  They had no companies involved.

Early direct investment. They missed the boat.

[Danderman]

Kazakhstan seems to have a short sighted approach to the resources given to them at the collapse of the USSR. They should have grabbed a piece of ILS and LaunchLaunch and they should have invested in upgrading Proton and Zenit to make them more competitive (ie funding a LH2 upper stage).

When the Russians leave Baikonur, Kazakhstan will have nothing.

would have to check this but believe Kazakhstan has some interest in land launch. 

The point is that they should be a major player, funding enhanced capabilities for Zenit, with IP rights tied to launch from Baikonur.

[russianhalo117]

Here are some links Anatoly Zak of RSW sent me (a subscription is required for the Interfax links):
http://www.interfax.co.uk/kazakhstan-news/kazakhstan-gives-up-on-angara-launcher-project-at-baikunur-kazkosmos/
Mr. Zaks second source:
http://www.vz.ru/news/2012/12/5/610309.html
-----
Here is a semi-related Zenit Article
http://www.interfax.co.uk/kazakhstan-news/kazakhstan-to-stop-russias-lease-of-zenith-launch-complex-at-baikonur-kazkosmos/

If someone has a subscription to Interfax's UK Service please post both articles content in a new post so all can read. Please paste the link withe corresponding article.
Many Thanks,
RH117

looks like all the deals might fall apart now.   I can't read the full story but this might be a good one.

Ukraine could disrupt Sea Launch, Land Launch schedule – source

Not to mention KAZKOSMOS's strong push to rapidly eliminate every launcher program that uses Hypergolic Prop./oxidizer from Baikonur. Plus KAZKOSMOS is considering making their own homemade launcher to fly form Baikonur. KAZKOSMOS want's Russian/Ukraine to pay full cost of Cosmodrome cleanup and dismantlement of unused complexes. So with their latest stance about everything as of recent, The present situation might turn into an ugly Political war like we have yet to see to date because these are huge threats that are larger than the ones we have previously seen. Kazakh media are using fighting language against Russia and Ukraine, but they actively welcome Chinese and Turks to pursue their space plans at the cosmodrome with full Kazakh support.
We will see how this plays out very soon between their space agencies and MoD's.

[Jim]

Kazakhstan seems to have a short sighted approach to the resources given to them at the collapse of the USSR. They should have grabbed a piece of ILS and LaunchLaunch

How could they "grab" a piece?  They had no companies involved.

Early direct investment. They missed the boat.

No, they had no way to do that.  ILS was already operating and Land launch is just an extension of Sealaunch.  They weren't looking for any more partners. 

[Danderman]

Kazakhstan seems to have a short sighted approach to the resources given to them at the collapse of the USSR. They should have grabbed a piece of ILS and LaunchLaunch

How could they "grab" a piece?  They had no companies involved.

Early direct investment. They missed the boat.

No, they had no way to do that.  ILS was already operating and Land launch is just an extension of Sealaunch.  They weren't looking for any more partners. 

Your history is a bit off.

ILS was formed from the existing LKE (Lockheed-Khrunichev-Energia) consortium. There was plenty of opportunity for Kazakhstan to intervene as an investor what with owning the launch complex and all that.

[Jim]

ILS was formed from the existing LKE (Lockheed-Khrunichev-Energia) consortium. There was plenty of opportunity for Kazakhstan to intervene as an investor what with owning the launch complex and all that.

ILS was LKE with only a name change.  There was no in for Kazakhstan and at the time, owning the complex was still debated.  And even so, their role was more like a landlord.   ILS/LKE wasn't looking for a partner. 

[input~2]

Original article from RIA Novosti in Russian
http://ria.ru/science/20121205/913492367.html

[Prober]

Kazakhstan seems to have a short sighted approach to the resources given to them at the collapse of the USSR. They should have grabbed a piece of ILS and LaunchLaunch

How could they "grab" a piece?  They had no companies involved.

Early direct investment. They missed the boat.

No, they had no way to do that.  ILS was already operating and Land launch is just an extension of Sealaunch.  They weren't looking for any more partners. 

Kinda think that the Kazakhstan gov. came in to Land Launch and provided funds etc. as a partner.   

Also remember that 2nd Proton bldg and some other launch site improvements have been paid for by the Kazakhstan partners?

Kazakhstan does hold "leverage", will see what happens.

[Prober]

Woke up to read front page Yahoo news today....

Kazakhstan mulls ending Russia's cosmodrome lease


http://news.yahoo.com/kazakhstan-mulls-ending-russias-cosmodrome-lease-075818121.html

[Galactic Penguin SST]

Woke up to read front page Yahoo news today....

Kazakhstan mulls ending Russia's cosmodrome lease


http://news.yahoo.com/kazakhstan-mulls-ending-russias-cosmodrome-lease-075818121.html

....and it could also end up as a win-win solution.

1. That's a sign of Kazakhstan authorities saying "We've got more money than before that we can put on Baikonur. Now show yours." to the Russians. In fact this could mean a lower rent rate to the Russians and more investments from the Kazakhs.

2. Remember that the Russians are building a new launch site in the Far East to solve exactly this issue? While work has been slow for the past few years, some significant work has progressed towards the opening of a new Soyuz launch pad in 2015. If the Kazakhs are willing to pull more money into Baikonur, the Russians will surely can get more Rubles into Vostochny and Plesetsk too.

3. Talgat Musabayev (a veteran ex-cosmonaut who spent almost a year on Mir and the ISS, BTW) actually said that if a deal is struck with the Russians to take over Baikonur, it will be done in phases, the first of which will be the Zenit launch facilities on the east side (LC-45/1, the rocket MIK at area 42 etc.). Remember that the Russians have really under-used the Zenit facilities (only 9 launches since 2004!) as the rocket is now made by Ukraine. The Kazakhs would probably be happy to use it......

So who knows, this may actually be the best way to get out of the Baikonur sovereignty issue!

[Danderman]

Woke up to read front page Yahoo news today....

Kazakhstan mulls ending Russia's cosmodrome lease


http://news.yahoo.com/kazakhstan-mulls-ending-russias-cosmodrome-lease-075818121.html

This has nothing to do with Kazakh "investment" in Baikonur, and everything to do with trying to raise the rent the Russians pay.

[Prober]

Woke up to read front page Yahoo news today....

Kazakhstan mulls ending Russia's cosmodrome lease


http://news.yahoo.com/kazakhstan-mulls-ending-russias-cosmodrome-lease-075818121.html

This has nothing to do with Kazakh "investment" in Baikonur, and everything to do with trying to raise the rent the Russians pay.

you think this has to do with rent, I disagree. 

The Kazakh gov. has wised up that Proton has only a couple more years in Baikonur.  Soyuz will still be launched but in smaller numbers.

[asmi]

That news sounds like yet another powerplay on Kazakh part - they want more money. They clearly have no use of it all by themselves.