Author Topic: SpaceX: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 7)  (Read 348843 times)

Online Chris Bergin

Thread 7 for general discussion on SpaceX and their vehicles.

Previous threads (now over 1.5 milllion views for the five SpaceX threads alone):

Thread 1:
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=19228.0

Thread 2:
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=22769.0

Thread 3:
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=24179.0

Thread 4:
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=25597.0

Thread 5:
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=28006.0

Thread 6:
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=29476.0


SpaceX news articles on this site:
Old: http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=21862.0 (links)

Then recent news articles, not linked above, as we moved to a tag group system:
All recent: http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/tag/spacex/


L2 SpaceX - now a large section:
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?action=tags&tags=SpaceX


NOTE:
These are very busy threads. Remember, this site is 99+ percent read by people not logged in to post. When you post, lots and lots of people get to read it. So, make it a worthwhile post, be civil and remember this is a community.

Offline cleonard

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Re: SpaceX: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 7)
« Reply #1 on: 11/17/2012 05:38 am »
The Dragon appears to have had a few radiation issues on the last flight and from what I can tell from reading here it happened on one other occasion.  That seems a bit high even for commercial non rad hardened electronics.  Perhaps they were just unlucky, but there may be a bigger problem there.

The radiation environment in LEO is comparatively benign when you compare it to deep space or even the surface of Mars.  Any trip beyond LEO means traveling through the Van Allen Radiation belts and the radiation exposure there is hundreds of times greater than in LEO. 

This tells me that a rad hardened computer must be in the plans as I just don't see the current setup working for anything but LEO.

Offline Joffan

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Re: SpaceX: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 7)
« Reply #2 on: 11/17/2012 05:53 am »
The Dragon isn't heading beyond LEO in the near future. Time enough to solve the Van Allen radiation problem in a few years time.
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Offline Geron

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Re: SpaceX: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 7)
« Reply #3 on: 11/17/2012 06:25 am »
Curiosity showed that a dragon on mars should do just as well as a dragon in Leo as the radiation environments are cOmparable.

Offline mlindner

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Re: SpaceX: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 7)
« Reply #4 on: 11/17/2012 06:26 am »
So recently there was mention of a talk given by a SpaceX GNC Engineer. Where are the notes/video from this talk?
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Online ugordan

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Re: SpaceX: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 7)
« Reply #5 on: 11/17/2012 01:36 pm »


Looks too short to be even F9 v1.0 first stage tankage.
« Last Edit: 11/17/2012 01:53 pm by ugordan »

Offline corrodedNut

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Re: SpaceX: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 7)
« Reply #6 on: 11/17/2012 01:57 pm »

Looks too short to be even F9 v1.0 first stage tankage.

Maybe a GSE side tank. I didn't see "SpaceX" anywhere on that vehicle, did you?

PS. In nearby Moody, TX, corner of Farm-to-Market 107 and State Hwy 317.

« Last Edit: 11/17/2012 02:01 pm by corrodedNut »

Offline cleonard

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Re: SpaceX: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 7)
« Reply #7 on: 11/17/2012 04:47 pm »
The  Dragon isn't heading beyond LEO in the near future. Time enough to  solve the Van Allen radiation problem in a few years time.
I agree with this.  However, it seems like they might want to start on this right away.  With the current situation a significant solar event might be problematic even in LEO.

Curiosity showed that a dragon on mars should do just as well as a dragon in Leo as the radiation environments are cOmparable.
So far everything I've seen from the radiation experiment on Curiosity are in arbitrary units.  The raw counts look to be about half on the surface as they counted during cruise.  Since the detector was inside shielded by other  spacecraft structures during cruise the ratio between the Mars surface and deep space must be somewhat more. 

During the latest Curiosity teleconference there was some updates from the radiation experiment.  When asked about the arbitrary units vs actual units like rems or rads, it was stated that the absolute numbers should be available sometime in December. 

It seems to me that the numbers for the surface of Mars will come in a bit higher than LEO.   Even if the numbers are more of less equivalent, the huge differences in exposure time make Mars mission radiation exposure at least two orders of magnitude larger.   

Online ugordan

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Re: SpaceX: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 7)
« Reply #8 on: 11/17/2012 06:48 pm »

Looks too short to be even F9 v1.0 first stage tankage.

Maybe a GSE side tank. I didn't see "SpaceX" anywhere on that vehicle, did you?

The diameter to me looks about right for an F9 stage, something I wouldn't expect for a GSE tank. It's covered in tarp or something, why should there be visible SpaceX markings?

Hmm, this video shows a similar/same thing and one comments says it's a wind turbine tower core.
« Last Edit: 11/17/2012 06:52 pm by ugordan »

Offline go4mars

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Re: SpaceX: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 7)
« Reply #9 on: 11/17/2012 06:58 pm »
Could be a foundation form for a windmill, a grain storage silo, or other things besides rocket tanks.
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Offline Chris-A

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Re: SpaceX: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 7)
« Reply #10 on: 11/17/2012 08:07 pm »
Very likely to be a 12 ft diameter tank, but too short to be a F9 tank, nor Grasshopper.

http://i.imgur.com/iOUkb.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/UDp9n.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/kf29F.jpg

Offline modemeagle

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Re: SpaceX: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 7)
« Reply #11 on: 11/17/2012 08:16 pm »
Very likely to be a 12 ft diameter tank, but too short to be a F9 tank, nor Grasshopper.

http://i.imgur.com/iOUkb.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/UDp9n.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/kf29F.jpg

I was going to post a similar setup and conclusion.  Even the 1.1 LOX tank is longer (happens to be only a foot difference from the 1.0 LOX/RP-1 tank combo, 78' vs 77')

Offline krytek

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Re: SpaceX: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 7)
« Reply #12 on: 11/17/2012 10:22 pm »
I think I remember the F9 first stage is carried on a special trailer designed to support the structure while in transit. The one i the video looks like a regular one.

Offline kicaj

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Re: SpaceX: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 7)
« Reply #13 on: 11/18/2012 09:22 am »
Hi, everyone.
This is my first post on the forum, and I have a question.
Does anyone know, how much costs dragon capsule?

Offline Jason1701

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Re: SpaceX: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 7)
« Reply #14 on: 11/18/2012 09:59 am »
Hi, everyone.
This is my first post on the forum, and I have a question.
Does anyone know, how much costs dragon capsule?

That is not public information. However, since SpaceX sells cargo delivery services to NASA at $133M per flight, and they advertise $54M for the Falcon 9, it must cost them less than $79M if they're profiting.

Offline spectre9

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Re: SpaceX: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 7)
« Reply #15 on: 11/18/2012 11:51 am »
Isn't profit included in the F9 pricing?

Offline dcporter

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Re: SpaceX: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 7)
« Reply #16 on: 11/18/2012 01:08 pm »
We don't know cost but we do know advertised price, and I believe Elon's been quoted saying the Dragon costs about the same as a F9.

Online LucR

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Re: SpaceX: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 7)
« Reply #17 on: 11/18/2012 07:00 pm »
However, since SpaceX sells cargo delivery services to NASA at $133M per flight, and they advertise $54M for the Falcon 9, it must cost them less than $79M if they're profiting.

Combine this with the previous post and you get that Dragon costs at most $54M. However, the $25M left includes "extra services"; the actual amount of profit in there is anyone's guess.

Offline RocketmanUS

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Re: SpaceX: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 7)
« Reply #18 on: 11/18/2012 09:54 pm »
However, since SpaceX sells cargo delivery services to NASA at $133M per flight, and they advertise $54M for the Falcon 9, it must cost them less than $79M if they're profiting.

Combine this with the previous post and you get that Dragon costs at most $54M. However, the $25M left includes "extra services"; the actual amount of profit in there is anyone's guess.
That price ( $133M ) is averaged over all the flights. The first flight will cost less than the last flight of that contract do to inflation. Plus I believe that contract also included start up cost ( I read that some place ).

Offline mlindner

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