Private Moon Landing in the works?

[Robotbeat]

Google is your friend...

Was it advocated or announced by either Hu or Xi? If not, it means very little. There are countless US "officials" who talk about plans to go to Mars or the Moon the asteroids, etc.

[Warren Platts]

Before people go waking up Chris Bergin, let's steer this thing back to the topic at hand.

The question is whether a possible (most likely secondary) motive is the desire to beat the Chinese back to the Moon. The idea being that if NASA cannot/will not do it, they had better do it themselves for the sake of God and Country.

The answer is: who knows? We would have to ask Diamandis whether that keeps him up at night. I'm guessing probably not.

Really, the motivation is spelled out in Peter's Laws:

http://www.diamandis.com/peters-laws/

The answer is he wants to go to the Moon, and he realizes the only way that's going to happen is if he makes it happen himself, by hook or by crook.

Of course to do that sustainably, some money is going to have to be made somewhere along the line sooner or later. In that regard, it would be better to have the option of having the liberty to make the rules yourself. To do that, it would would be better to get to the Moon yourself first. That way, you're not having to ask the Chinese or anyone else for permission or forgiveness for anything.

All I can do is point out the obvious: that getting there first will carry with it certain advantages. Whether this thought actually takes up any brain cells in the people behind the rumored initiative isn't worth debating.

[oldAtlas_Eguy]

Yes, I agree with you that the probable motivation is the desire to get there sooner rather than later. If the investors can break even or make a little money as well that is icing on the cake.

[MikeAtkinson]

In my opinion the Chinese have little to do with the motivation for a private moon landing, especially as at least some of the finance is "foreign".

The quicker they can get to the moon the less money it will cost. The quicker they can get to the moon the sooner they will start getting revenue (from whatever sources their business plan indicates). Eight years should be enough to develop a lander.

[ChefPat]

China has no timetable for manned moon landing: chief scientist

[Danderman]

Before people go waking up Chris Bergin, let's steer this thing back to the topic at hand.

The question is whether a possible (most likely secondary) motive is the desire to beat the Chinese back to the Moon. The idea being that if NASA cannot/will not do it, they had better do it themselves for the sake of God and Country.

The answer is: who knows? We would have to ask Diamandis whether that keeps him up at night. I'm guessing probably not.

I missed the revelation that Peter Diamondis was connected to this Golden Spike venture. That would put him into two distinct entities allegedly funded by billionaires that are going to develop parts of the solar system. Wow!

[Nelson Bridwell]

And what exactly do you think was the motivation for NASA to wake up from it's slumber, a decade ago, and announce "Moon, Mars, and Beyond?"  It was the realization that China, despite it's modest claims, was headed to the Moon.

And for those who have not happened to notice, China is very much into PLANNING.  It is something that they do very well.  Much better than NASA.  What has been happening to their economy has not been an accident.  So you can bet that they have a detailed plan for their manned landing, and that they are not showing their cards because they really don't want someone else to pop in before them and steal their thunder.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2011/dec/30/china-manned-moon-mission-lunar

Nearly 40 years after the cold grey soil of the moon was last disturbed by bounding humans, the lunar surface has become an official destination once more.

Tentative plans to land a man on the moon have been outlined in a document published by the Chinese government that confirms the nation's intention to become a major spacefaring nation. Officials in China have spoken before of their hopes for a crewed lunar mission, but the government document is the first to state the aim as a formal goal for the nation's space agency.

Details of the plan – which would see a human walk on the moon for the first time since Apollo 17 in December 1972 – were published in a white paper that serves as a roadmap for the next five years of Chinese space exploration.

It says China will "push forward human spaceflight projects and make new technological breakthroughs, creating a foundation for future human spaceflight", and describes preparations for orbiting laboratories, space stations and studies that underpin "the preliminary plan for a human lunar landing".

[Warren Platts]

Note also in the link provided by Chefpat, they say they need to accomplish several steps before then can send a crewed lander, but that these steps will  be completed by 2017.
_____________________________
In other news, there has been some postings on the internet that Golden Spike is a foreign company. This is not true, as far as I can tell: although a "Statement of Foreign Entity Authority" was filed with the Colorado Secretary of State, Colorado defines "Foreign Entity" as "an entity that has been formed outside of Colorado." In this case, Golden Spike was originally incorporated in Delaware, and thus counts as a foreign entity for the purposes of Colorado law, but it was not formed outside of the United States. Although there are rumors of foreign money involved, I can't confirm anything on that just by surfing the internet as of now.

Attached is a pdf of the screen I got from the Delaware Secretary of State. More info is available for 10 or 20 USD, but probably nothing very interesting.

What is interesting to me is the incorporation date: 11/03/2010, that is just about 8 business days after the LCROSS results were published in Science on 10/22/2010, which leads me to believe that LCROSS may have in fact had something to do with the motivation for starting Golden Spike.

[Robotbeat]

And what exactly do you think was the motivation for NASA to wake up from it's slumber, a decade ago, and announce "Moon, Mars, and Beyond?"  It was the realization that China, despite it's modest claims, was headed to the Moon.
...

Colombia, you insensitive clod.

EDIT:(That is a reference to Calvin and Hobbes.)
http://picayune.uclick.com/comics/ch/1986/ch860214.gif

[KelvinZero]

And what exactly do you think was the motivation for NASA to wake up from it's slumber, a decade ago, and announce "Moon, Mars, and Beyond?"  It was the realization that China, despite it's modest claims, was headed to the Moon.

In my opinion it was the impending end of the shuttle and a large workforce that would suddenly have nothing to do. Money was about to be diverted to actual utilization of the ISS (shock! horror!) 

Instead we suddenly noticed how expensive the ISS was and how little it had achieved, and decided we needed to build a really big shuttle derived rocket for um.. something. 

[Jim Davis]

And for those who have not happened to notice, China is very much into PLANNING.  It is something that they do very well. 

Yes, the Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution were textbook examples of careful and meticulous planning.

[Danderman]

In other news, there has been some postings on the internet that Golden Spike is a foreign company. This is not true, as far as I can tell: although a "Statement of Foreign Entity Authority" was filed with the Colorado Secretary of State, Colorado defines "Foreign Entity" as "an entity that has been formed outside of Colorado." In this case, Golden Spike was originally incorporated in Delaware, and thus counts as a foreign entity for the purposes of Colorado law, but it was not formed outside of the United States. Although there are rumors of foreign money involved, I can't confirm anything on that just by surfing the internet as of now.

Attached is a pdf of the screen I got from the Delaware Secretary of State. More info is available for 10 or 20 USD, but probably nothing very interesting.

What is interesting to me is the incorporation date: 11/03/2010, that is just about 8 business days after the LCROSS results were published in Science on 10/22/2010, which leads me to believe that LCROSS may have in fact had something to do with the motivation for starting Golden Spike.

You have presented us with information about Golden Spike Inc, a Delaware company. How does this relate to the Colorado "Golden Spike" company?  Why would Golden Spike incorporate in Delaware and then do business in Colorado?

[corrodedNut]

You have presented us with information about Golden Spike Inc, a Delaware company. How does this relate to the Colorado "Golden Spike" company?  Why would Golden Spike incorporate in Delaware and then do business in Colorado?

Everybody does that. Its a tax shelter. SpaceX is incorporated in Delaware.

[Comga]

There has been some speculation that the nasawatch tweets are inacurate, particularly WRT names involved. But if it's the case that Golden Spike Company is involved, then at least S. Alan Stern (not the Ubigwi guy) is involved, since his name is on the Golden Spike documents.

As for the possible business plan: "Golden Spike Company" could be a double entendre: there is the obvious reference to the transcontinental railroad--and there was a "Golden Spike Company" that was mining gold in the Sugarloaf Mining District just a very few miles to the northwest of Boulder Colorado in Boulder County.

Note also, as I've pointed out before, that Stern was the Principle Investigator (PI) of the LAMP instrument on LRO that detected the anomalous gold signature within the LCROSS impact plume (and a coauthor of the paper that reported those results). Stern can also be quite the out of the box thinker when he wants to be: e.g., check out his "History of the Lunar Atmosphere"

The third document changes the address for Golden Spike from Dr. Stern's residence to the address for Taffet Law P.C. and "Miller & Harrison Attorneys at Law‎ " although this doesn't prove that either are connected.

People who know Dr. Stern don't use his first initial.  It is generally "Alan".

Despite an earlier statement in this thread, Dr. Stern was not an employee of Blue Origins.  They may be among the clients for whom he has consulted, but they were never his employer.

Another of his recent ventures is Uwingu.  On the Blog tab you can see Dr Stern's photo taken in front of the Atlas V 551 for the New Horizons mission to Pluto and the Kuiper Belt, for which he is the Principal Investigator.

While true coincidences are rare, there is a simple connection between the location of the original "Golden Spike" in Promatory, UT and the ATK facilities for developing solid rockets:  It is pretty much away from anything, but not so remote as to make access difficult.  I wouldn't assuume any connection to ATK from the name, but I wouldn't dismiss the name as insignificant. 

It is very hard to imagine NASA paying for a ride to the moon, or funding the effort to get another US flag and footprint track on the Moon.  It is even harder to imagine getting $nB funding based on getting paid back by NASA.  Think of the poltical risk.

I am really looking forward to hearing more details.

[Warren Platts]

There has been some speculation that the nasawatch tweets are inacurate, particularly WRT names involved. But if it's the case that Golden Spike Company is involved, then at least S. Alan Stern (not the Ubigwi [Uwingo] guy) is involved, since his name is on the Golden Spike documents.

As for the possible business plan: "Golden Spike Company" could be a double entendre: there is the obvious reference to the transcontinental railroad--and there was a "Golden Spike Company" that was mining gold in the Sugarloaf Mining District just a very few miles to the northwest of Boulder Colorado in Boulder County.

Note also, as I've pointed out before, that Stern was the Principle Investigator (PI) of the LAMP instrument on LRO that detected the anomalous gold signature within the LCROSS impact plume (and a coauthor of the paper that reported those results). Stern can also be quite the out of the box thinker when he wants to be: e.g., check out his "History of the Lunar Atmosphere"

The third document changes the address for Golden Spike from Dr. Stern's residence to the address for Taffet Law P.C. and "Miller & Harrison Attorneys at Law‎ " although this doesn't prove that either are connected.

It's also the address of a wedding dress store. Perhaps the business plan is catering weddings on the Moon....

People who know Dr. Stern don't use his first initial.  It is generally "Alan".

Dr. Stern uses his first initial for scientific publications: http://www.sciencemag.org/content/330/6003/472.abstract

[Comga]

Different Alan Stern: see attached pictures.

SAME:  The one and only Dr. (S) Alan Stern.  :-)
(Pity a poor guy with the same name.  "No. I am not THAT Alan Stern.")
New Horizons PI, Alice PI, Ralph PI, LAMP PI, SwUIS-A PI, SwRI VP, NASA AA SMD, astronomer (even from the back seat of an F-18), author, leader, multi-engine rated flight instructor, Uwingu principal, Golden Spike principal,...

One guy, all these roles.  He does get around.

[Nelson Bridwell]

And for those who have not happened to notice, China is very much into PLANNING.  It is something that they do very well. 

Yes, the Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution were textbook examples of careful and meticulous planning.

Last I heard, Mr Davis, Mao is no longer running the show,  their economy has been growing at double digit rates, while ours have been receeding.

And while you are at it, ever wonder what is the real reason why Armstrong chose the words: "A great leap for mankind."   Shortly afterwards, China switched allegiances from the USSR to the USA.

[KelvinZero]

Pretty off topic here anyway. There is a thread specifically on the topic here:

http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=30360

[Jim Davis]

...Mao is no longer running the show...

Putting Mao in charge was yet another example of Chinese prowess at planning.

[Danderman]

Nobody is going to invest private capital in a scheme to land people on the Moon because the Chinese may someday land people on the Moon.

The logic  behind this idea is that the US government may someday have an urgent requirement to land people on the Moon, and this private venture may be so far advanced that NASA would find it reasonable to simply tag along.

No investor is going to put any serious money in such a scheme along the lines above. The investment must stand or fall on the most likely outcomes, not a wish upon a wish.