Private Moon Landing in the works?

[Danderman]

As thrilling as it maybe that someone here has invented a business case for going to the Moon, that kind of discussion needs to go into another thread.

This thread is for discussions about this particular company's approach to going to the Moon. What is particularly appropriate would be:

Information about the principals in the new company;

Information about any patents the principals may hold that would be germane to going to the Moon;

and, of course, any info gleaned about this "Golden Spike".

Everything else, including discussions about property rights and metals on the Moon can go elsewhere, please.

[Nathan]

As thrilling as it maybe that someone here has invented a business case for going to the Moon, that kind of discussion needs to go into another thread.

This thread is for discussions about this particular company's approach to going to the Moon. What is particularly appropriate would be:

Information about the principals in the new company;

Information about any patents the principals may hold that would be germane to going to the Moon;

and, of course, any info gleaned about this "Golden Spike".

Everything else, including discussions about property rights and metals on the Moon can go elsewhere, please.

Except that this is a purely speculative thread. There is no certainty that there is actually a company out there wanting to do this!
I think business case is worth speculating on- nothing else actually matters!

[Nelson Bridwell]

Golden Spike Company info:

http://www.sos.state.co.us/biz/BusinessEntityDetail.do?quitButtonDestination=BusinessEntityResults&fileId=20111129491&masterFileId=20111129491&srchTyp=ENTITY&entityId2=20111129491&nameTyp=ENT

Future company website info:

http://www.networksolutions.com/whois-search/goldenspikecompany.com

Attorney for company:

http://www.insidecounsel.com/2012/09/20/aviation-law-now-with-rockets

http://www.insidecounsel.com/2012/10/31/spaceflight-litigation-the-liability-atmosphere-aw

(from nasawatch tweets)

[Nathan]

Golden Spike Company info:

http://www.sos.state.co.us/biz/BusinessEntityDetail.do?quitButtonDestination=BusinessEntityResults&fileId=20111129491&masterFileId=20111129491&srchTyp=ENTITY&entityId2=20111129491&nameTyp=ENT

Future company website info:

http://www.networksolutions.com/whois-search/goldenspikecompany.com

Attorney for company:

http://www.insidecounsel.com/2012/09/20/aviation-law-now-with-rockets

http://www.insidecounsel.com/2012/10/31/spaceflight-litigation-the-liability-atmosphere-aw

(from nasawatch tweets)

And the attorney's own website
http://www.douggriffithlaw.com/

[Robert Thompson]

The Future of Lunar Tourism (2003)
http://www.spacefuture.com/archive/the_future_of_lunar_tourism.shtml

Unmistakable synergies and frustrations. Intriguing POV from Hawaii as locus of tourism industry. I point to lunar science on principle, but the planet has 1200 billionaires and +10,000 millionaires. The 'build it they will come' may apply. Two markets for reusable architecture aside from national goals. Yadda neither SSII or Lynx II have flown yadda.

[A_M_Swallow]

{snip}
For crew and cargo landing on the moon they could use the
http://www.sei.aero/eng/papers/uploads/archive/SEV-L2-Lander-Presentation_1Oct2012.pdf
Than is without the in space stage as it only would need to go between LLO and the Lunar surface if not using an EML-2 gateway.

Stretch the tanks length to make it a tanker for a LLO depot.

For a two week stay on the Moon the astronauts are going to need some mobility.  Use the wheeled version of the MMSEV and replace the ladder with a ramp.  An extra mass of over a ton.

[JohnFornaro]

Nelson:  Thanks for all those links.

None of them discuss Golden Spike's business plan.

The speculation about gold and mercury mining is interesting.  If anybody knows about the concentrations of those elements in greater detail than mentioned above, that would be interesting to know.

What would happen to Earth's economy if they should strike it rich?  Just how much gold do we need for gold plated connectors and such?  Plus, most of the big countries don't back their currency with gold either.  Finally, you'd have to go up there, dig it up, refine it, and bring it back for what, $1700/ounce?

This thread is for discussions about this particular company's approach to going to the Moon. ... Everything else, including discussions about property rights and metals on the Moon can go elsewhere, please.

Not so fast, kemosabe.  Nelson posted several links which answer the question about who, but which say little or nothing about why and how.

With a name like "Golden Spike", and some evidence that there is gold in them thar hills, gold rush speculation is pertinant on this thread.

[Danderman]

With a name like "Golden Spike", and some evidence that there is gold in them thar hills, gold rush speculation is pertinant on this thread.

You could be 100% correct, but if gold extraction is going to be real, it deserves its' own thread.

Same with discussions about the optimal transport system for astronauts on the moon, please create a special thread for the technical details.

And, in particular, what we want to avoid here is, assuming that this company reveals its plans, the usual 20 messages about how they are going to fail because they don't use My Personal Favorite Technical Approach.

[Nelson Bridwell]

My hunch is that Golden Spike has nothing to do with mining, and everything to do with transportation.  Their name appears to be a clear refernece to the transcontinental railroad.

With a goal of manned landings, rather than unmanned vehicles, and a target date of 2020, it appears that the customers for this system will be primarily political entities rather than commercial firms.  This sounds more like an attempt to resume and continue where Apollo left off.  Many of the involved people were major players in NASA manned spaceflight.

And with only 7 years they will need to dramatically limit their scope.  Where possible, they will buy rather than develop system components.  They will take a modular building-block approach so that they can buy launches from ULA and SpaceX, rather than waiting for an HLV.  They will buy Bigelow inflatable modules that they will eventually be delivering to the lunar surface.  And their sole  focus will be development of a manned lunar lander.

Because their customers will not be profit-limited, they will not need to go with the lowest-cost route.  They will have a near-monopoly on manned lunar access, and the primary driver will be global political prestiege.

[Nelson Bridwell]

And who would be the customers?

Do you think that NASA would turn down a comparatively low-cost opportunity to beat China to the Moon?  And what about Japan?  They are not too happy with Chinese territorial disputes...  And what about the ISS participants?  How do you think they would feel about the opportunity to have a national hero walking on the Moon?

[go4mars]

If the concentration of gold[\b] and other platinum group metals spike[\b]s above background levels owing to to concentration mechanism suggested by Warren, then "refining" could[\I] be as easy as removing some ice and some mercury.  There may be other beneficial metals in there too, and even some interesting alloys conceivably, but they should all be, I would expect, very small in size.  If so, then sorting "high-grading" becomes a relatively straightforward endeavor.  The non-metallic by-product, water, is interesting in it's own right. 

I see a spike in gold concentration as potentially relevant to a company named golden spike.  I doubt it's just me thinking that.  Perhaps you could suggest a better thread to discuss this potential golden spike.

[Warren Platts]

(from nasawatch tweets)

'nuff said.

There has been some speculation that the nasawatch tweets are inacurate, particularly WRT names involved. But if it's the case that Golden Spike Company is involved, then at least S. Alan Stern is involved, since his name is on the Golden Spike documents.

As for the possible business plan: "Golden Spike Company" could be a double entendre: there is the obvious reference to the transcontinental railroad--and there was a "Golden Spike Company" that was mining gold in the Sugarloaf Mining District just a very few miles to the northwest of Boulder Colorado in Boulder County.

Note also, as I've pointed out before, that Stern was the Principle Investigator (PI) of the LAMP instrument on LRO that detected the anomalous gold signature within the LCROSS impact plume (and a coauthor of the paper that reported those results). Stern can also be quite the out of the box thinker when he wants to be: e.g., check out his "History of the Lunar Atmosphere"

[Warren Platts]

Other connections:

NW also mentioned Paragon as being involved, which is plausible, since Stern serves on the Board there. Note also that the company was founded by Peter Diamandis himself, along with Peter Raven, the famous botanist, (he wrote the main biology textbook I used when studying for the biology GRE's a long time ago), and Richard Farson, the psychologist. Here are all three of them commenting on Jane Poynter's book about her experience being an inmate at Biosphere II for 2 years. And guess what: She's the chairwoman of the Board at Paragon!

So that's interesting: everything needed for a permanent crewed presence--including growing food in space--is being developed at Paragon....

@ Hernalt: You're in Tucson right? Maybe you could do a little detective work over at the Paragon facilities....

[Warren Platts]

I see a spike in gold concentration as potentially relevant to a company named golden spike.  I doubt it's just me thinking that.

 So "Golden Spike" could refer to the UV emission peaks corresponding to gold that were observed by LAMP instrument in addition to the transcontinental railway allusion and old-timey gold mining companies! Very cool! I didn't think of that one!

[Nelson Bridwell]

As for the possible business plan: "Golden Spike Company" could be a double entendre: there is the obvious reference to the transcontinental railroad--and there was a "Golden Spike Company" that was mining gold in the Sugarloaf Mining District just a very few miles to the northwest of Boulder Colorado in Boulder County.

Could be.  And in Denver there is the Golden Spike Roofing Company.  Perhaps you can also argue the case for lunar shingles?

If you do a white pages search for Golden Spike, the state where it is most used (22 instances) is in Utah.  Colorado has only 2.

I personally don't think that they are going to select a name that is a misleading reference to an obscure, historically insignificant company.

I could be wrong.  And this could also be pure vapor...

[JohnFornaro]

...gold rush speculation is pertinant on this thread.

You could be 100% correct, but if gold extraction is going to be real, it deserves its' own thread.

I mentioned in general that gold rush speculation is pertinent.  Don't confuse my general observation with a prediction from me which would have to be some percentage correct.

I'm not quite getting your objection to the several biz plan speculations above, tho.  What are we supposed to talk about, then?

My hunch is that Golden Spike has nothing to do with mining, and everything to do with transportation.  Their name appears to be a clear refernece to the transcontinental railroad.

That was my first guess too.  Transportation.  NASA wants to get to the Moon?  Flight #123, at five o'clock on Mondays, still has some seats available.  They could have a "near monopoly on manned lunar access".

I dunno about your idea that the Moon has developed a case of lunar shingles.

[Nelson Bridwell]

That was my first guess too.  Transportation.  NASA wants to get to the Moon?  Flight #123, at five o'clock on Mondays, still has some seats available.

With NASA's proposal for an ISS-style EML2 outpost, it could also be that they would only need to be able to deliver an uncrewed lander to EML2, and rent seats to the lunar surface .  However the wording about "commercial astronauts" on the lunar surface suggests otherwise...

[Warren Platts]

As for the possible business plan: "Golden Spike Company" could be a double entendre: there is the obvious reference to the transcontinental railroad--and there was a "Golden Spike Company" that was mining gold in the Sugarloaf Mining District just a very few miles to the northwest of Boulder Colorado in Boulder County.

Could be.  And in Denver there is the Golden Spike Roofing Company.  Perhaps you can also argue the case for lunar shingles?

HAHA. Very funny....

If you do a white pages search for Golden Spike, the state where it is most used (22 instances) is in Utah.  Colorado has only 2.

That's because the original golden spike was nailed in Utah.

I personally don't think that they are going to select a name that is a misleading reference to an obscure, historically insignificant company.

Except for the fact that that company also operated out of Boulder CO.

[Nelson Bridwell]

Nice try.  However:

(1) It is very unlikely that any of their prospective clients will be from Boulder.
(2) I would hazard a guess that even in Boulder the vast majority have never heard of said mining company.
(3) Even Mr Google does not appear to have any recollection of such a company in Colorado...

[Robert Thompson]

Maybe you could do a little detective work over at the Paragon facilities....

I may do this if another source occurs in addition to nasawatch.